Limit lakes for guides?

[db-2]

Game and fish does not stock the potholes, it's the Pelicans job to restock. db

 

[lunkerslayer]

Game and fish does not stock the potholes, it's the Pelicans job to restock. db

Yes that is correct which are more often called feeder lakes, I know there are lakes that may have been stocked many years ago that actually don't get stocked anymore because for one particular reason are nolonger accepted, For instance three lakes in the devil lake basin fenster sloughs, mission bay lake, and lake lorreta have all been gill netted in the past but if you look at the stocking reports have not been. I have fished all three of these lakes and all three of these lakes have one thing in common they do not have a gNf approved boat launch which is the reason why they no longer are stocked. They may have had boat access in the past hence the reason for the gill net survey but for whatever may be the reason they no longer do which is the reason they are no longer stocked.
There were other lakes that I always wanted to fish but were unable to becuase of lack of access. Those lakes are in an essence the true honey holes with a population of healthy sized fish or full of stunted adults.

 

[Freedom]

WJS, Your post is spot on!

There's a couple decent points but hook and line vs commercial fishing methods and fish vs mammal management are pretty poor comparisons. I don't think anyone here has pushed for less regulation, they've just pointed out they don't believe more regulation on guides is the solution. I'm not a big fan of guides but if the goal is to reduce harvest I think it should be reduced limits across the board. Even a reduced limit would have more effect on guides/nonresidents as there is no freezer limit for residents.

 

[shorthairsrus]

Hiring a guide to fish perch ---- -the greatist generation are rolling over in their graves.

With that said gen alpha wants experiences not just products.

 

[jdinny]

I fish primarily McKenzie bay, there is a few boat ramps, but no hotels, no big guest houses, no big dinning area, or bar, guessing if there is guides ramping out of this area, they are quick day trip types.
Skunk has a restaurant/bar, but also maybe a cabin or 2, not a big rental guide type area either.

Skunk is a hot spot. The rooster sees people come from Beulah bay on nice days… granted not guides but we make rooster runs from van hook with the in laws quite often when it’s nice out….. I think the guys from the east ramp at deep water and run up into the arm. It’s nothing to go 15 miles now with todays boats

 

[jdinny]

I can’t say I’ve had any issues with any guides. There is sooooooo much structure to fish in the arm that if you can’t find fish on a spot by yourself your not trying real hard

 

[lunkerslayer]

So as usual those lakes that I talked about earlier have either the same gill net information for the last decade or have been completely eliminated all together. To me that is a good and bad depending on the lakes depth of water, again with a fenster lake that has the same gill net surveys posted it had a over a decade ago one thing is for certain this lake has deep pockets of water well over 20 feet. Meaning that this lake must be just full of stunted perch with a few perch getting up in the 10 inch range, mount Carmel dam is an example of a lake with deep waters but a population of stunted perch population. North golden lake in Steele County in the early 2000s was full of stunted perch, these lakes have one thing in common they are the best places to bring the kids to if you're want introduce them to the wonders and joy of ice fishing. Now if the game and fish were actually doing their job which clearly they are just happy stocking their prize lakes with types other then the green yellow toads. These fish can survive in water that are less then 4 feet and populate with great efficiency compared to other species that need to be reintroduced year after year.
So the game and fish who by allowing these lakes to go unchecked for the benefits of the locals who prefer them to be able to slip under the radar or an injustice in not providing access to these lakes for the benefit of catching so many perch you could run out of bait before they would quit biting. I mean there are so many lakes that could use green yellow toads stocked in them in the north eastern part of the state where it's mostly others like walleye or pike that get selected for these reservoir lakes. And many could if they were granted a boat access funded by the state of North Dakota but I have a feeling the locals in those areas prefer this not to be becuae of tore up roads and trash left on the ice after a day of fishing.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

guides profit off of public waters stocked by tax payer dollars. I’m trying to think of more examples like this.

I can’t just decide to be a logger and go cut down trees on public land

I can’t just decide to rip up a WPA and start farming it.

The guides didn’t raise and release the fish to catch. IMO, this is the reason they get attacked.

 

[jdinny]

guides profit off of public waters stocked by tax payer dollars. I’m trying to think of more examples like this.

I can’t just decide to be a logger and go cut down trees on public land

I can’t just decide to rip up a WPA and start farming it.

The guides didn’t raise and release the fish to catch. IMO, this is the reason they get attacked.

Guides out west guide all over public land for elk, mule deer etc. so extremely similar comparison there

 

[Freedom]

guides profit off of public waters stocked by tax payer dollars. I’m trying to think of more examples like this.

I can’t just decide to be a logger and go cut down trees on public land

I can’t just decide to rip up a WPA and start farming it.

The guides didn’t raise and release the fish to catch. IMO, this is the reason they get attacked.

I more or less agree with your view of guides. Top requirement to be a guide seems to be being a hypocrite. Most seem to preach conservation while pimping the resource. At the same time federal excise tax is a large chunk of the ndgf budget, I gotta imagine any money guides make is subject to the excise tax. Who has "rights" to the fish could be a hell of a rabbit hole if someone wanted to waste the time digging into funding. It's much simpler to blame guides and non residents

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Guides out west guide all over public land for elk, mule deer etc. so extremely similar comparison there

Correct. Hunting/fishing. Same thing.

 

[Lycanthrope]

guides profit off of public waters stocked by tax payer dollars. I’m trying to think of more examples like this.

I can’t just decide to be a logger and go cut down trees on public land

I can’t just decide to rip up a WPA and start farming it.

The guides didn’t raise and release the fish to catch. IMO, this is the reason they get attacked.

There are lots of ranchers with cattle on public land, for their own benefit, yeah, they pay a bit to do it, but nothing like it would cost them to buy their own land...

 

[Freedom]

Some brief research isn't showing if guides are taxed similar to equipment (surprising the government would miss the opportunity to tax) Did see we get funds based on land mass, so we (ND) most likely receive more pittman-robberson/dingell-johnson money than we pay in

 

[lunkerslayer]

guides profit off of public waters stocked by tax payer dollars. I’m trying to think of more examples like this.

I can’t just decide to be a logger and go cut down trees on public land

I can’t just decide to rip up a WPA and start farming it.

The guides didn’t raise and release the fish to catch. IMO, this is the reason they get attacked

We have been defining these as guides what all actuality they are considered an outfitter only, while one can be an outfitter and a guide when one is referring to hunting. I believe that at one time fishing services as a business one needed only one license while all the other employers could be licensed at just the guides. They changed it because I assume they were losing out on money when many people where involved in guiding services like perch patrol. Where you had multiple clients in multiple locations and only one person was licensed.
This is interesting according to the north dakota proclamation other then being 18 years of age, pay a 100 dollar license fee, and a criminal background check I don't think there is anything else one needs to be a outfitter/guide when it comes to fishing. The North dakota proclamation is very vague on it's overall requirements when it comes to the strict definition of a fishing outfitter guide. It's really weird actually nothing on the busnines aspect pretty much up to the discretion of the outfitter. Hence no requirement in displaying your busnines info on your equipment

 

[lunkerslayer]

I am starting to see the other sides argument soley based on the overall impact that the north dakota residents provide to these individuals. I will use another form of business that utilizes north dakota waters as means to making a living, the wholesale bait dealer is required to post on his vehicle his license number and his busnines name, he can have up to 6 helpers. The term "wholesale bait pond" means any pond used to take legal live aquatic bait for wholesale.
A legal description, to the quarter section, of each wholesale bait pond must be listed on the wholesaler's pond application form and all ponds must be approved by the director prior to trapping. The maximum number of approved legal descriptions for ponds from which a wholesale bait vendor may trap annually is fifty. Any bait vendor who violates this section is guilty of a noncriminal offense and shall pay a two hundred fifty dollar fee.
As far as I know the reason why each wholesale pond documented is to make sure that only one person by all legality is taking bait out of that pond.
So if we went by this definition of a business who use north dakota resources we a actually regualte how many guides could legally be on any particular water at any given season.

 

[Skeeter]

All right - That’s enough outa you kids!

Don’t make me turn this thing around - cuz I will.

You tell ‘‘em dad!! Whoop some ass!!!

 

[riverview]

how else are you going to deduct your 21 foot ranger boat , snow bear, and pickup?

 

[gonefshn]

If I remember correctly, the game and fish in ND is entirely funded by federal money and licenses. NOT general fund tax dollars. The federal funds are from excise taxes on guess what? Hunting and fishing equipment. So many of your arguments don’t apply. After all, those lakes are being stocked and ramps being built by not only you, but every guide and person a guide takes fishing. I could be wrong but this is what G&F people always tell us. Also, guides do pay income and other taxes like every other business.

 

[Rowdie]

Why should we limit guides? I thought we are capitalist country? No different then regulating a CEO/company. We have the good ol’ ND game and fish to do any type of stocking of fisheries that’s needed. Seems like some people or ok regulating what works for them only.

If they were on private lakes only then I would totally agree with you. I would venture to guess that 99.99% of the fishing is taking place on PUBLIC WATERS and making money off of a public resource. So when you think of it like that, the public may have a say, no?

 

[sl1000794]

If they were on private lakes only then I would totally agree with you. I would venture to guess that 99.99% of the fishing is taking place on PUBLIC WATERS and making money off of a public resource. So when you think of it like that, the public may have a say, no?

I'd agree - we may have the same say as we have on hunting and fishing regulations, seasons and limits.