National Grasslands

[eyexer]

eastern MT farm and ranch on facebook seems to have a couple people coordinating donation efforts of many kinds. From the lodgepole fire to hay, etc.

 

[gst]

Yesterday we drove the north side of Sakakawea to Indian Hills, then back and cross the dam to the Knife River Indian Village, then to Mandan. I talked with a ranch lady and her husband and sons are haying at Cando. Cows were having it tough in the pastures I looked at. There was a lot of hay moving west on I94. Does anyone do coordinating for those willing to haul?

NDFB plains..........

http://bowmanextra.com/2017/07/20/ndfb-drought-relief-effort-underway/

 

[PrairieGhost]

I wonder if they have closed the public lands to grazing in the drought areas?

For the full story: https://www.revealnews.org/article/ranchers-denied-the-drought-while-collecting-drought-subsidies/

It was an anti-government rebellion in the Nevada sagebrush – with hefty taxpayer subsidies for the rebels.
In June, tough-talking ranchers in remote Battle Mountain, Nevada, defied the federal government, herding cattle onto public rangeland that had been closed to grazing to protect it during the West’s scorching drought.
That act of defiance capped two years of protest against grazing restrictions imposed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, which manages thousands of square miles of arid federal land in Nevada.
In the end, the federal government backed down from the confrontation in Battle Mountain. The BLM canceled the drought closures and opened the range, just as the cattlemen wanted.
By denying the severity of the drought – and by claiming that “rogue” federal bureaucrats threatened them with economic ruin – the ranchers won the day. But even as the conflict played out, some of these same ranchers were collecting drought subsidies from the federal government.
On one hand, they denied the drought. On the other hand, they embraced it.
According to records obtained by Reveal, two ranching families at the center of the Battle Mountain protests received $2.2 million from a federal drought disaster relief program.

 

[gst]

In your haste to bash on ranchers plains you once again are giving us a look at the liberal slanting websites you read.

https://www.revealnews.org/

The Sierra Club, Back Country Hunters and Anglers,.....HSUS........

Yet you claim a conservative org that is actually doing relief efforts is the "Posse Comitatus"............;:;banghead

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I wonder if they have closed the public lands to grazing in the drought areas?

And that folks is the govt ideology at work.......remove the things that help prevent catastrophic fires from these lands in an attempt to "save" them.

How many years did you get tax payer dollars as a govt employee plains?

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plains from your link.........you seem to embrace this radical environmental ideology more and more. Perhaps it is ones true colors showing.....what's that saying about a leopard and is spots.....

"Environmentalists derided the ranchers as drought deniers who nevertheless want a government handout for drought relief.“It’s another example of the hypocrisy,” said Laura Leigh, founder of Wild Horse Education, a Reno nonprofit that seeks to protect wild horses on the Nevada range. “They want to run full numbers (of cattle) and claim there’s no drought, and they want to collect drought subsidies besides.”

https://wildhorseeducation.org/




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again from plainsmans link.........

"Katie Fite of the environmental group WildLands Defense said the range around Battle Mountain is “devastated and needs significant rest” from the ranchers’ activities.“They truly think they are the lords of yesteryear and the public lands are their own little fiefdom,” she said."

Here is a little bit about this org you post comments from........

http://wildlandsdefense.org/thrill-kill-at-the-epa/


WildLands Defense’s Katie Fite’s latest article in Counterpunch:
EPA and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service regularly caved into toxic chemical purveyors in the Obama administration. The agencies have long been crippled. A prime example is authorizing the poison Rozol to kill black-tailed prairie dogs across 10 states. Animals die a slow and inhumane death. Non-target eagles, hawks, and other wildlife are exposed to the poison. A recent illegal Rozol application near the route of the Dakota Access Pipeline killed domestic bison. The cause of death of six bald eagles is being “investigated’.
The Trump Beachhead Team is gutting what remains of the agency’s regulatory controls, and striking fear into federal workers – thrill killing the legacy of a great woman scientist and writer, the founder of the environmental movement …
And look at who’s helping do the Hands On Dirty Work – a former professional wildlife Killer and continuing Coyote Derby Thrill Killer.
Will a similar fate befall BLM?

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Annnnnddddd predictably plainsman shares links that use orgs with a similar theme to them.........

http://wildlandsdefense.org/wld-issues/public-lands-ranching/

"Public Lands Ranching

Public lands ranching is the most ubiquitous use of public lands in the country, occurring on over 250,000,000 acres of land, an area roughly the size of the states of California and Texas combined.
Whether you’re a public lands advocate, a wolf supporter, a bighorn sheep enthusiast, an angler or hunter, a Yellowstone buffalo activist, a recreationist or in any way interested in public lands – the wholesale abuse of a quarter billion acres of your public land affects you.
Permit and lease renewal of grazing permits may not seem like the sexiest issue, but it’s where the rubber hits the road on a myriad of habitat and wildlife conservation issues. Public lands ranching is the source of habitat and wildlife conflict and every ten years the administrative permit/lease renewal process is one of a few opportunities the public and advocacy groups like WildLands Defense has a voice, and often actionable hook, to weigh in on management in favor of wolves, bighorns, fish, buffalo, pygmy rabbits, mountain springs and streams, etc. etc. etc. and where federal land managers are legally obliged to listen and consider the public’s concern.



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plains do these articles come in packets from your old govt job??

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Plains says.........

PrairieGhost

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The one north of Carrington makes you hold your nose. It would be unfair of the highway patrol to run radar there when people are trying to escape.




It's kind of suspicious that these operations set up in water run off areas. I hear about all the precautions and would guess they are trying to do what they say, but what's the failure rate? Close to 100% over a 20 yeer period?​

Now your in my field of expertise. This fellow did his PhD rehabilitating a wetland in Minnesota: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mark_Hanson3

Risk? It's not a risk it's a sure thing in an area with ground water integrated to the lake. All wetlands within the lower elevation ground water continuum will be affected with high nitrogen. People want sources I can give you sources and personal field experience, plus opinions I have been given by nationally known wetland ecologists and hydrologists. Pelican lake will be green in late June within a few years.

You can dissolve the pig crap it's still high nitrogen. You can put it in the ground and contaminate that for the next few hundred years.​

Wildlands Defense says.........


Nearly all surface waters in the West are fouled with livestock wastes that produce harmful waterborne bacteria and protozoa such as Giardia. Suk, T., J. L. Riggs, B. C. Nelson. 1986. Water contamination with giardia in backcountry areas in Proc. of the National Wilderness Conference. Gen. Tech. Rep. INT-212. USDA-Forest Service, Intermountain Res. Stn. Ogden, UT: 237-239. Livestock grazing is the single largest contributor to non-point source pollution in New Mexico, accounting for approximately 15 percent of the water quality impairments statewide.

 

[DirtyMike]

How about you two ladies take your purse fight to the next bingo night.

 

[gst]

put down the shovel plains.

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Bingo is a rip off besides those old ladies are vicious....those purses hurt

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Take it easy there Mickey, open a window in the basement...those paint fumes are makin ya owly......eat a snickers......

 

[DirtyMike]

Eating snickers might have gotten you to your current BMI

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I went to PG's information go to site. revealnews.org.

Hey, they even got a whistleblowers page where YOU can anonymously "leak" crap to them.

http://leak.revealnews.org/

revealnews is a non-profit and they will always print the story in support of those who fund them.

 

[PrairieGhost]

How about you two ladies take your purse fight to the next bingo night.

Have you not noticed I am ignoring gst? Trying for that steak dinner someone mentioned.;:;rofl

Fritz I didn't pay any attention to where the article came from. There was an an article in the Jamestown Sun last week about ranchers getting $25 per cow in moderate drought and more in severe drought. The paper got thrown out so I googled it. For some reason the site was down, but many other things of interest popped up. This one zI found interesting because it involves those crazy ranchers again. Google ranchers and subsidies. Google ND ranchers, drought, and gov help. I agree they need help, but if fire danger is to high for hunting then grazing needs to be cut back, or cut completely or it will damage the range. Good stewards of the land right?

 

[gst]

Eating snickers might have gotten you to your current BMI

Holy man now we are making it personal? Very mature of ya there Mickey...

But then given the childish false claims you made in PMs.. I guess it is to be expected.

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H but if fire danger is to high for hunting then grazing needs to be cut back, or cut completely or it will damage the range. Good stewards of the land right?

and there is the govt employee doubling down on removing grazing and logging and leaving that dead grass and standing dead timber.....what could go wrong there........

Indeed watching old growth forrest and hundreds of thousands of acres go up in flames rather than controlled logging or grazing is being such a "good steward" of the publics lands........

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Fritz I didn't pay any attention to where the article came from.

Say excuse CNN uses..............

 

[Allen]

and there is the govt employee doubling down on removing grazing and logging and leaving that dead grass and standing dead timber.....what could go wrong there........
.

Actually, he and the federal employees of BLM, USFS, USACE, etc, etc that will listen are simply taking the work of range scientists such as Kevin Sedevec from NDSU and trying to implement the recommendations made in that paper I linked to a couple pages back. Then again, you read that paper as well, so you already know the impacts from overgrazing will be felt for years down the road due to the damage caused by overgrazing.

 

[johnr]

Is over grazing worse than a wild fire on these prairie grasses?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Caught this tidbit from PG's revealnews.org thingy:

Environmentalists complained that the BLM rewarded the ranchers for violating the law, allowing them to run cattle on a drought-stressed range that they said already was battered by decades of overgrazing.


“The livestock industry enjoys heavily subsidized grazing privileges,” said Kirsten Stade of the Washington-based group Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility. “But (it) acts as if it has an entitlement to the public’s lands.”

PG wrote,

This one zI found interesting because it involves those crazy ranchers again

You liked that what they ​said.

So Bruce, what is Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility? Is it like a Union? A non-profit Union for Public Employees funded by whom and to what end? Is it like the North Dakota Chapter of the Wildlife Society where eniro's congregate?

 

[gst]

Actually, he and the federal employees of BLM, USFS, USACE, etc, etc that will listen are simply taking the work of range scientists such as Kevin Sedevec from NDSU and trying to implement the recommendations made in that paper I linked to a couple pages back. Then again, you read that paper as well, so you already know the impacts from overgrazing will be felt for years down the road due to the damage caused by overgrazing.

Allen, there is a difference between over grazing and responsible grazing. As you may have read the range scientist you mention Kevin Sedevec who is very sharp was called upon by ranchers to speak to grazing height requirements that those people in the USFS like plains hat wanted to limit grazing significantly tried to implement a few years back

Kevin Sedevec pointed out that the stubble height requirements after grazing that were being proposed were actually taller than what some of the species of native grasses grew to......meaning to be in compliance these cattle would have ot be removed before they even got started grazing.

the link to a story on it is below.

Remember on these public lands the rancher who leases (often times long term 10 years) them is often times responsible for water and fencing. I'm sure their intent is to damage those grazing lands for the entire duration of their lease....................

Come on allen, one plainsman making these kinds of accusations on here is plenty.

You guys do know they do make cuts to grazing numbers in drought years right? Read the article..you will find both the rancher (I know Keith good cattleman and range manager) and the USFS gal says the range is in good condition.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_dd341b8a-3a09-11e0-aa79-001cc4c03286.html


Hey Allen perhaps it is not these ranchers making long term impacts o the Grasslands........

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_70d83e09-725a-5aea-b307-821814c15c8a.html

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Eating snickers might have gotten you to your current BMI

Got thinkin running the baler......given that I have never posted a pic on here or any other outdoor site and given the claims you made i that PM you sent me.........you must have been doing a in depth job of creepin. You would have had to dig pretty deep given the reference you made in the PM. Deeper than checkin out somebody on FB..........

 

[DirtyMike]

Holy man now we are making it personal? ..

Ha. You think you actually change my day in any direction. You're a simple sociopath with your only outlet being the internet. Hope this is the legacy you're choosing to leave behind.

 

[gst]

Ha. You think you actually change my day in any direction.

Ah mikey, you know what you posted in that little series of PMs ........you are the only guy on three sites that has made those kinds of personal accusations in a private message over the years. That makes you kinda special........

 

[DirtyMike]

if you consider an accusation me asking if the stories were true, then I guess you're right. Regardless, if those questions have to be asked, you're general character is right around there with your buddy Craig Cobb or the protestors.

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Upi should also be grateful I asked those questions in private.

 

[gst]

plainsman and now possibly allen wishes people to believe ranchers just open the trailer door and dump as many cows on these lands as they can. If anyone wishes ot actually learn some facts here is the grazing policies developed in 2006 that have been undergoing developmental research since.

Pages 1 - 13 deal with drought management.

PlanPage#Guidelines1-13 1. Modify livestock grazing practicesas needed to reduce adverse impacts ofdrought to food and cover for prairiegrouse and other wildlife.1-13 2. When installing new livestock watertanks, install durable and effectiveescape ramps for birds and smallmammals. During maintenance ofexisting tanks, replace ramps that areineffective or missing.1-14 18. Manage for late seral conditionsagebrush in selected sagebrush standsto provide quality wintering habitat forsage grouse (see Appendix H).



One thing to note is that any disagreements are ruled in favor of the species or plant or wildlife being impacted ...in other words livestock take a back seat.

PlanPage#Guidelines3-10 Prohibit livestock grazing in thefollowing Special Interest areas: TheBog, Grand River Sand Dunes, WhiteButte, Black Cottonwood, and BurningCoal Vein/Columnar Junipers.3-30 3. Maintain disturbance processes(fire, grazing) if required for habitatenhancement, restoration or speciesviability.53-30 5. Conflicts that cannot be mitigatedare resolved in favor of specific plantand wildlife species and communities.3-37 1. Use livestock grazing strategies thatmaintain or improve the vegetativecomposition and structure associatedwith the scenic qualities of the area.



These are guidelines that ranchers have worked WITH these public lands managers to better improve Sage grouse habitat ot help keep them from being listed. Each year during the NDSA annual convention there are updates and explanations given as ot these policy guidelines and rules so this is something over the years we have learned a bit about.

Any ways enjoy reading some facts for a change.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprd3818907.pdf

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Oh hey, would someone please let plainsman know maybe this is something he should not be "ignoring" if he wants to post anything factual down the road here?

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if you consider an accusation me asking if the stories were true, then I guess you're right. Regardless, if those questions have to be asked, you're general character is right around there with your buddy Craig Cobb or the protestors.

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Upi should also be grateful I asked those questions in private.

|
So how much digging did you have to do to hear these "stories" Mickey?? I am curious to where you thought you found such damning information you would make such a foolish petty veiled accusation. Especially given the job you claimed to have.

Now you're insinuating racism??

You need ot do a bit more snooping Mickey, maybe you can find a bit I wrote on Mr. Cobb believing he would come ot our community and change it to suit his ideals. Several people in our community liked it a bit.

"grateful"????? go ahead and make publicly the accusations you did privately on this site mike, people will see what measure of a person you are simply because you may disagree with or not like someone you have never met to make personal accusation that are not true.

Remember though, to have any credibility you would have to share where you got your "stories" you made your veiled accusation from and also remember the consequences of making such untrue accusations can have especially to someone that works in the field you shared you do

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These are the groups that plainsman like to quote on here...........

http://helenair.com/news/state-and-...cle_1645162d-56f1-5ae5-b118-44e4ed7fffb9.html

Mean while actual peoples lives are put in jeopardy fighting these fires

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Even the forest supervisor thinks it is stupid.

"Two Lincoln-area wildfires are burning within an area the Forest Service approved for fire mitigation work starting this year, but is currently under federal court injunction.

“It was about creating resilient forest conditions, and part of that being protection for the community of Lincoln,” said Bill Avey, forest supervisor. “There’s fuel loading with high mortality and there’s a history of fire starts in that area that’ve been increasingly hard to catch.”

Earlier this month lightning sparked the Park Creek and Arrastra Creek wildfires in the project area, burning more than 6,000 acres to date and still largely uncontained.

Last winter, environmental watchdogs Alliance for the Wild Rockies and Native Ecosystems Council filed a lawsuit challenging the project. The groups contended it would negatively impact elk and grizzly bears while exemptions allowing logging in Canada lynx habitat were misapplied.
With the first timber sale sold to a contractor, this spring a federal judge granted a preliminary injunction temporarily halting the project. Judge Dana Christensen ruled that an injunction only temporarily postpones the potential benefits of the project and found the risk of fire was not imminent and did not outweigh the Forest Service’s obligation to follow the Endangered Species Act.

“The Court acknowledges that Defendants have presented evidence that the Project area is susceptible to severe and intense wildfires due to elevated fuel levels caused by ‘heavy accumulations of dead and down timber.’ However, though there is the possibility of serious fire activity within the boundaries of the Project, there is no indication that this area is at risk of imminent fire activity,” Christensen wrote."



oops.......

yeah, what the hell does that forest supervisor guy know any ways............Lets just go ahead an leave that timber and grass...........

 

[PrairieGhost]

Is over grazing worse than a wild fire on these prairie grasses?

Absolutely.

 

[DirtyMike]

Again, asking and accusing are different. I typed that slower so you can understand it a bit better. Btw, the career I have would also necessitate me suggesting you seek professional help in the mental health field. The way you attack any individual that disagrees with you (ones you've never met) screams sociopathic behavior. Of course, I'm no psychiatrist but a ditch digger could have figured you out by now. Regardless, it's the individual characteristics associated that really scare me.

As far as digging for information, I didn't even have to lift a finger. It was offered to me. It appears I'm not alone in my judgement of your character. Like I said before, I hope this is the legacy you're choosing to leave behind. Getting banned from websites, attacking anyone who doesn't think like you, or just being an overall unlikeable guy. I leave you with that even though I know you'll have to reply with some snarky comment.