SB2137

[wct12]

Respectfully, I think that’s an overly simplified perspective. I haven’t talked to a deer ecologist yet that would tell anyone that long term deer populations need supplemental feeding to prosper over the long term. There are other more important factors driving populations, things that are more sustainable and lead to better ecological outcomes for the land and wildlife.



Sounds like they need more quality habitat.



I agree with what’s quoted there 100%.


I can understand your frustration…….believe me.



That is not logical. Habitat improvement and certain disease management strategies are far more sustainable, responsible, and beneficial to wildlife and the landscape long term. With less risk of negative side affects like acidosis, unbalanced carrying capacities in terms of food:cover ratios, other species disturbances or even the fact that good habitat usually means more wetlands, better erosion protection, healthier soils, better ground water systems, and more diverse systems conducive to producing and maintaining resilient populations. These aren’t pets or domesticated livestock.


I’m focused on many things. Hence the multiple legislative issues were involved in, the travel management plan in the Grasslands, public land transfers, etc.

Sask has been heavily affected by CWD. And truthfully, I don’t mean this to come off as snarky, but saying it hasn’t is either a willful denial of the truth or being dishonest. There are many accounts of Sask hunters voicing impacts in certain areas, deer numbers and buck quality. WY and CO have seen significant impacts as well. Arkansas has recorded impacts. The Wisconsin study will be published in the near future, more gps collared deer dead from CWD. Lots of them die from pneumonia at or near clinical end stage disease. They leak saliva into their own lungs because they can’t swallow correctly or control their cud. Something that would likely not have happened if they didn’t have a neurological disease that is 100% fatal. 100% as in, no animal, humans included, has ever been documented to have recovered from or survived a prion disease. Ever.

But I would agree that hard winters are likely hard on CWD+ deer. Another reason we want to keep prevalence low.


I’m using data from GPS collar work, published and repeatable research, evidence, facts. They might not have all the answers, and mistakes happen or things don’t always turn out how they were intended. That’s just working with wild animal populations.

I’m operating in reality. I would argue many, not all, but a good portion of your group are not thinking straight on this issue. I don’t mean to say that in a way that is laughing at you or degrading any of you.

I don’t mean this to sound harsh either, it’s not intended to be. CWD is here. We can either choose to do the right thing for the resource and do what we can to make responsible decisions with positive impacts as a collective. Or we can wallow in denialism about the truth that sits right in front of us. But we can make a difference.

If we had it our way we would like to ban baiting, and feeding, in units where CWD is found. I’d like to keep pressure on the 2 units we have it the worst in. I know it sucks, but I think it’s still making a difference. It might get to a point where it’s not making as big of an impact, certainly. But I think since we got on it early and have stayed on it, it’s helped. I’d like to increase financial help for landowners to put up hay yard fencing and/or reasonably adjust their cattle or farming operations to allow for some preventative measures to be put in place that would prevent deer from yarding up over food sources. Won’t be perfect, but we can make a difference.

Even If those actions can only buy us another 20 years of low prevalence in most of the state. I think that is absolutely the best avenue to pursue. Far better than just throwing in the towel after 15 years.

Some of the wildlife health folks I talk to says they’re working on a sort of vaccine. It’s not really a “vaccine” per se, more of a PrP down regulator. But they say results are promising, but that also doesn’t mean 6 months from now. They’ll test it more and these studies take time because of the long pathogenesis of the disease.



Sounds like we need better habitat. Again, lots of those deer that die in those winters die from acidosis. GF has seen some instances of over 30% acidosis mortality in localized areas, that’s during and after hard winters. Likely higher, because they’ll just stop checking to confirm after so many.

Which is funny in some sense, and you might appreciate this. Because at this stage in CWD prevalence in ND, again prevalence is low, I would say it’s likely acidosis from human feeding has killed more deer than CWD at this point. How ironic is that? Makes me kind of chuckle. I thought you might get a kick out of that too.


Habitat would go a long way.

sorry for the late response, i was sitting at a pheasant clubs sportsmen’s banquet where we discussed increasing habitat, supplemental feeding and whatever can do better to increase birds numbers.. but yes, habitat habitat habitat.. the same thing I said the department you adore so much has tried to tirelessly fix but has come up basically empty in the last 15 years would make all the difference but has struck out more times then if they were facing Nolan Ryan.. (get it, he’s the MLB strike out leader)

Sorry.. I forgot to mention nutrition levels are essential no matter the wildlife species from birds to kangaroos to North Dakota’s deer herd. Nutrition and maintaining it is an oversimplified perspective. A healthy herd is a good herd! I’m glad you take the same stance as the department though.. important driving factors like habitat are more important to ecological outcomes then supplemental feed.. it’s just to bad the department hasn’t made any head way on either yet despite all their best efforts.

Oh yes, let’s not forget.. habitat habitat habitat! If I could get every other land owner to not burn sloughs, plant tree rows and leave grass buffer strips and old yards I would be the first one in line to help and provide money.. but instead statewide it isn’t going to happen so I do what I can with the land I can and run from there.

You keep mentioning acidosis.. it’s almost like you think all these big game biologist that the state employ aren’t able to make a sound, data driven decision (if so welcome to our side!). If a big game biologist isn’t able to battle acidosis through a beneficial supplemental feeding program it’s almost like the letters behind their name are meaningless.. (don’t worry, I can help if you would like, I had a few nutrition and animal health classes in college)

Also sorry I forgot.. your an activist for wildlife though the legislature, just like you curse me for being! Darn someone for trying to follow the state constitution and preserve it for the people and manage it through LAW and regulation for the public good (80% in favor of the bill your battling to kill) especially after the legislature twice granted me the right to do it.

I like your studies you post with tracking collar info.. the 9 year old doe that’s like turning an 80 year old with worn down teeth lose in the woods and hoping for the best.. or the 3 year old buck that got killed by coyotes (not CWD killed if a predator takes care of em and the rear end is all bloody) which is essentially the same as dumping an 18 year old into the wolf pen at a zoo and then saying covid killed em because they tested positive after the pack killed em..

Awe yes.. 30% acidosis again.. seems like someone with a PhD in wildlife management would be able to come up with a nutrition plan to offset that, but maybe you need a lowly rancher/land owner to help out with that.. the department is the experts Brock, they can do no wrong, just listen, follow mandates and everything will be just fine. 2 weeks to stop the spread, or maybe 15 years if we don’t lose 200% of our deer herd again! (Makes me kind of chuckle also, maybe you will get a chuckle out the department costing sportsmen opportunities, because I sure don’t)

Would a vaccine be awesome, sure.. but it’s not quite as feasible as hoping for resistant genes (you’ve said so yourself on a vaccine or redid that genes working) which were possibly present in that Williston herd the department slaughtered (culling works super well.. if I have 100 deer and 5 are positive (I can’t tell which ones are because it takes YEARS for it to show clinical signs) and I kill 50 with 1 being positive, I now have 8% positives instead of 5% positives, but the department killed 50+ (they couldn’t tell fawns from adult does) so they just kept blasting). “Experts” say culling in a wild herd can’t help determine genetics.. but departments like to think it can help prevalence rates.

And awe yes, I’m glad you’ll listen to landowners/sportsmen in Sask, instead of the ones in your home state, that say they’ve lost buck quality/deer numbers.. (what have tag numbers done in those hunting units with high prevalence rates, and what do increased buck licenses and overall license numbers do to buck quality and deer herd numbers.. (if I give out double the buck tags and double overall tag numbers it’s almost like there will be less deer in general and more bucks taken (some of these might even be trophy quality.. take 3f2 and deer numbers and quality for example..))

I’m also glad to know you would be in favor of banning feeding in units with CWD positives and relatively low prevalence rates.. you know, since that’s against what the state legislature has granted the people of North Dakota twice.. it’s almost like bureaucratic over reach is back country hunters and anglers forte with the whole Land Tawney/sportsmen for Obama second amendment infringements.

 

[wct12]

I’ve said before, 2023 ND whitetail population was 150,000. Quick math on the conservative side to figure out feed needed is 5% body weight, 125 lb average deer, we’re taking almost a million pounds of supplemental feed needed every day. And that’s not including mule deer. Who pays for that? And is the population not allowed to ebb and flow like nature always has? It needs to stay static or increase or you accuse of GF of not doing their job and taking from sportsmen.

You seem like the type that would whine if your ice cream was cold.

Also, at what point do we as landowners own part of the blame? Draining / tiling, burning sloughs, clearing trees, plowing to dust. All the food in the world can’t save deer when there’s nowhere to live.

You edited your post so I missed the last paragraph in my response.. landowners and the federal government hold a decent chunk of the blame. The few acres they gain burning sloughs, tearing out yards and tree rows and working ground black are extremely detrimental to our wildlife.. But since it’s private land.. I don’t have any say over what they do, nor can I make changes on that. It’s private land, they can do as they so choose.

I did work a couple grass sloughs down this fall.. but I did not throw 1 match in a single cattail slough even if I though I could farm through some of the in the spring. I have never tore out a single tree row (have more miles of tree rows planted then I can count on both hands with plans to put a 20ish acre tree grove in in the next year or 2) and never worked a field black after harvest, even where I plan on planting corn next year.

Farming practices are moving forward. With the increased acres of corn and beans there will only be more of those farming practices that take place.. it’s just something the department will have to live with and audible to unfortunately. I don’t foresee North Dakota ever getting close to touching the old soil bank/crp days.