Badlands mule deer

PrairieGhost

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Why do people think that more deer means bigger deer?
I forget some of the things I learned in wildlife biology, but there is some scientific reason that says you get bigger bucks with lower populations. I don't remember if it's less competition for food resources, less fighting for does that depletes body reserves or what the reason was. I seen more big white-tail this fall than any other fall in my lifetime.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2018/04/...ecline-sports/


That's an excellent article Captain. I often scratch my head when debating sometimes. When is damaged caused by the debate, and when is the need for change in law outweigh the possible division for a short time. As you know I debated hard against high fence hunts. I often see people complain about hunters shooting out of their pickup window yet have no problem with someone shooting an animal who has no chance. I had to ask myself which damages hunting more the debate and division or the hunting method that the general public looks upon. Still we make new laws every day because new situations that did not exist in the past must be dealt with. I read about the scientific attempt to alter laser that would not start fires, but worked only on H20 molecules. It would roast a pilot in his plane without detonating a bomb or crashing the plane in a populated area. One fellow said you could kill a deer at a mile on the run with no lead. So I'm guessing most of us would be against something like that. When to debate and when to keep quiet will always be a tough decision.
 


Enslow

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If you’re not seeing Big muleys you aren’t looking enough aka not enough days looking. You know how many little nooks and crannys there are in the badlands for a deer to hide in? I’ve seen 3 in the 180” range this year but I spend more than a weekend or 2 before season in the field. Had a buddy look for them deer during rifle and in 13 days never saw one of them. Told him to go to a different spot as was a few good bucks in the previous year and he sat that night and passed a 160” at 10ft. Next day he killed a 180+ at 11am that I hadn’t seen at all this year. Yeah there’s always luck involved in hunting but the bucks are there they just hide really well. As far as more people getting out and walking more, hahaha never seen so many road hunters in my life. My buddies buck was 2.2 miles from the nearest road and believe it or not there wasn’t a foot track to be found

Dude thanks for all the hospitality during my stay and help packing out my buck and pointing me in the right direction! I owe you one, well I owe u 2 haha! DustyG33 really does his homework!
 

KDM

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Why do people think that more deer means bigger deer?

More deer equals a stronger genetic base which translates into a stronger preservation capability of superior traits in both body and antler size. Smaller populations are immensely more susceptible to genetic loss, less capable of recovery from say a harsh winter or disease outbreak such as the EHD event of late, more susceptible to predator impacts like hunting, and are overall less resilient to changing mortality factors. That's why I think more deer equals bigger deer.
 

guywhofishes

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Dude thanks for all the hospitality during my stay and help packing out my buck and pointing me in the right direction! I owe you one, well I owe u 2 haha! DustyG33 really does his homework!

Meow that explains things.
 


Bowhunter_24

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I better clarify before people think I actually am “special”. The fighting for does and big antlers was a bad joke.

I think generally smaller populations have bigger antlers. But a few years ago after cats, over harvest and bad winters it was hard to find deer. Now they are making a comeback so I would have to think a healthier population would result in healthier age class distribution in this case.
 

CutEm

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More deer equals a stronger genetic base which translates into a stronger preservation capability of superior traits in both body and antler size. Smaller populations are immensely more susceptible to genetic loss, less capable of recovery from say a harsh winter or disease outbreak such as the EHD event of late, more susceptible to predator impacts like hunting, and are overall less resilient to changing mortality factors. That's why I think more deer equals bigger deer.

Please provide source for this information..... The only thing that even makes a lick of sense is that there would be more deer left after a harsh winter.
 

KDM

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My source is every genetics book ever published. Google population genetics/genetic diversity and educate yourself. If you have a population of 10000 individuals and a population of 100000 individuals and you remove 15% from each population, which do you think would better preserve genetic diversity?
 

CutEm

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My source is every genetics book ever published. Google population genetics/genetic diversity and educate yourself. If you have a population of 10000 individuals and a population of 100000 individuals and you remove 15% from each population, which do you think would better preserve genetic diversity?


I have a masters degree in wildlife biology and have worked in the field for more than 15 years. I think I have a grasp of the general concept. Genetic diversity will not directly correlate to bigger deer. A healthier population yes. Disease outbreak is prevalent among high density populations of animals.

Base of my argument is if you want big deer you have to manage for that by culling and not shooting younger deer. This thread frustrates me because it seems as if people who draw a tag expect to shoot a booner every time. Sometimes you hunt your butt off and dont see crap. Thats why its called hunting and not killing. I have seen several good animals that were taken out in the badlands this year. There isnt nor should there be a booner in every draw.
 


Bowhunter_24

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I think that’s the point that gets me too. A 170” deer is truly a trophy buck.

If if you have a whitetail rifle tag do you expect to see or shoot a 150” plus buck every year?
 

guywhofishes

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Ha ha ha had I sighted in 3.5 inches high at 100 I wouldn’t have had to aim at the brisket for the 260 yard downhill shot.

Hunting with Dusty is basically cheating.

- - - Updated - - -

also - kinda disappointed to learn Bowhunter isn’t special

looking for a new role model - PM resumes plz
 

jdinny

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its all about expectations. a guy from fargo that has waited 6-7 years is entitled to a 180" deer is he not?
regardless if he has never been west of the river before the shear fact he has waited 6-7 years he is entitled to the biggest bucks the badlands has to offer..... i can guarentee you right now there people readign this thread loving it, as people are wondering if they should wait for the badlands tags now and those same people loving this thread will consistently kill mature deer regardless of what the " internet says"

I saw this number somewhere i cant remember so I cant cite the source but..80% of the BC animals are killed by 10% of the people let that sink in....

you literally have to be prepared to hunt all season long and come home empty handed those that are not willing to come home empty handed will ultimately shoot bucks they are not happy with.
 

Wags2.0

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its all about expectations. a guy from fargo that has waited 6-7 years is entitled to a 180" deer is he not?
regardless if he has never been west of the river before the shear fact he has waited 6-7 years he is entitled to the biggest bucks the badlands has to offer..... i can guarentee you right now there people readign this thread loving it, as people are wondering if they should wait for the badlands tags now and those same people loving this thread will consistently kill mature deer regardless of what the " internet says"

I saw this number somewhere i cant remember so I cant cite the source but..80% of the BC animals are killed by 10% of the people let that sink in....

you literally have to be prepared to hunt all season long and come home empty handed those that are not willing to come home empty handed will ultimately shoot bucks they are not happy with.

Yes it’s all us yuppy easterners. Of the 6 mule deer bucks I’ve killed in my life 162 is the biggest, followed by a 160(last year), 155, two probably around 140 and then a fork horn (youth deer). Every time I’ve had the opportunity to hunt mule deer in my adult life I’ve hunted my ass off. Seen plenty of bigger bucks (170 or better deer I figured) but just couldn’t make it happen or turn them up again. I am in no way disappointed in what I’ve harvested, quite the opposite actually. It’s fun as hell
 


Whisky

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Yes it’s all us yuppy easterners. Of the 6 mule deer bucks I’ve killed in my life 162 is the biggest, followed by a 160(last year), 155, two probably around 140 and then a fork horn (youth deer). Every time I’ve had the opportunity to hunt mule deer in my adult life I’ve hunted my ass off. Seen plenty of bigger bucks (170 or better deer I figured) but just couldn’t make it happen or turn them up again. I am in no way disappointed in what I’ve harvested, quite the opposite actually. It’s fun as hell

Just think if you didnt live in Fargo man. They would all have been booners for sure.

:::
 


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