top soil erosion?

[lunkerslayer]

It has been proven no till combined with cover crops can in fact reduce fertilizer and chemical requirements

Where do you see cover crop used on no till farming? I have not seen cover crop used other than being planted because too wet to plant. I am talking about Devils Lake Basin and northeast north dakota, where land can be anywhere from loam, heavy clay and some black sand. Deerwatcher has a point in stating unless the government pays farmers to plant trees or return to CRP, I can not see farmers doing this on their own.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Lunker, Are there big areas of Black sand or just pockets ? I didn't know we had much of it on the surface around here. I'm guessing the old timers or someone along the line must have checked it out for gold ?

 

[lunkerslayer]

Lunker, Are there big areas of Black sand or just pockets ? I didn't know we had much of it on the surface around here. I'm guessing the old timers or someone along the line must have checked it out for gold ?

That is what I call the soil up near my home town. Just like sand when it rains it turns into a hard packed crust. Stuff is real pain to plant vegetables in the garden, because when you water the garden and you have to work the soil up or ends pushing up carrots, radishes, beets or onions. That's why I call it black sand, probably should of called it silty soil. My parents ended up getting some peet to try to loosen up the soil.

 

[Davey Crockett]

That is what I call the soil up near my home town. Just like sand when it rains it turns into a hard packed crust. Stuff is real pain to plant vegetables in the garden, because when you water the garden and you have to work the soil up or ends pushing up carrots, radishes, beets or onions. That's why I call it black sand, probably should of called it silty soil. My parents ended up getting some peet to try to loosen up the soil.

Did the peat help much ? That's the problem we have here too , We got a hard rain after I planted the garden this year and it took forever for the plants to get through it. I seeded sunflowers in the food plots and they are having a hard time breaking the crust too. I might harrow 1/2 of each plot just to see if it helps or hurts. I read somewhere that in another country, I think somewhere in Europe they use recycled plastic for that. I'm thinking a big round straw bale worked in to the soil this fall will help in the garden .



Long winded vid but there is a lot of sense in it, I would create a glacier if I tried that up here.

 

[gst]

Where do you see cover crop used on no till farming? I have not seen cover crop used other than being planted because too wet to plant. I am talking about Devils Lake Basin and northeast north dakota, where land can be anywhere from loam, heavy clay and some black sand. Deerwatcher has a point in stating unless the government pays farmers to plant trees or return to CRP, I can not see farmers doing this on their own.

Talk to the Burleigh County NRCS if you want more information. There is a small but growing number of farmers that are using cover crops after they harvest a crop. Gabe Brown from Bismarck has been doing it for several years and is a pretty good authority on it. We have done it up here, but the later seeding time frames make it harder to get a long enough growing season after harvest usually to allow the benefits they see farther south in the state. Jamestown is far enough south.

Just because you may not be seeing it does nopt mean some farmers are not doing things "on their own".

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If there is enough organic matter in the soil it is pretty hard to compact it enough from a rain to not allow plants to sprout thru. Most people make that mistake with their gardens and pull all the vines/plants and never put any organic material back in.

Davy your video is what I am talking about. Jay Fuher from Burleigh county is a great resource. Paul Brown has some different ideologies I don;t agree with and is a bit arrogant but his dad has accomplished pretty good things. Combine livestock with cover crops and it is a win/win situation.

 

[Deerwatcher]

We plant alot of cover crops in the fall ranging from turnips,radishes,rye, winter tritical, sunflowers, peas, clover, soybeans hell just about anything to keep live organic matter going to keep the soil ecosystem happy

 

[gone_fishing]

Agweek has bit on no-till: http://www.inforum.com/news/3765024...-has-been-practicing-no-till-methods-35-years

 

[lunkerslayer]

Thanks for the input in cover crop and no till farming. I was curious about when the water table drops and thus less moisture in the top soil, will no till keep the ground from breaking up causing large voids so big you could drop a screw driver in them and never see it again. I know this is true because it happened to me. Many farmers in the mid 80s had it bad if not worse than the Dirty thirtys were. I am a skeptic on global warming because in the dry years it was not uncommon for the temp to reach 85+ for days. Will no till keep the ground from opening up in dryer conditions over many years? http://articles.philly.com/1988-06-19/news/26265949_1_worst-drought-wheat-crop-states-disaster-areas this is the valley city city newspaper


Davy, they needed a truck load of peet as well as livestock waste to keep soil from becoming compacted from rain. We also use grass clippings in between the rows to help keep ground soft. Anyways it seems to work so far, good topic wags and to those you post with respect for others. Vollmer, this site kicks ass all the way to south dakota. Thumbs Up

 

[Deerwatcher]

The summer of 2013 was really dry on some of our ground we received less then quarter inch of rain from June till September. There were guys(heavy tillage) out combining when our beans were still waist high and green

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Really Sandy ground, heavy tillage on the left ours on the right.

 

[lunkerslayer]

So do you land owners still think it is a good idea to remove all the shelter belts?

 

[Enslow]

I live in the country in central ND and the dust storms have been terrible. There were times this morning i couldnt see the highway which is about 75 yards from the house. Lots of fields were just rolled prior to the beans going in and that dirt is blowing like flour. I went out to mow the lawn today and there was so much dust that i stopped mowing. All the crp and tree rows coming out was a big mistake. Many farmers around here are actually saying that crp should have never gone out.

 

[KDM]

The more trees they tear out, the more important the trees I plant each year become. We are losing shelter belts left and right out here which is very sad and disturbing to me. With each tree felled, landowners that have the remaining trees will inevitably become more protective and territorial of them, making it more difficult for folks to find good ground to hunt. Not a recipe I would like to see for the future.

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Raising soybeans in the central part of the State definitely isn't helping. No residue to stop things from blowing and when they seed they then roll it will a roller to push down the rocks. Another thing is spraying with roundup. No weed residue either.
Bad deal if late fall or winter as no way to stop it from blowing.

 

[watson]

I cringe every time I see another belt being dozed down, there was a reason they were all planted. You can say all you want about equipment size and how things are different now and what not, but what happened in the past can happen again. I have to travel 2-1/2 miles south of my farm before I come to the first tree, and for someone
to say that dust storms are a thing of the past and rarely happen today should have been at my place a few days ago, you couldn't see a half mile and you couldn't stand it outside, your eyes were stinging and watering in 10 minutes. maybe it wasn't dust though, maybe my neighbor dropped his can of nes-quik. So if you can justify it to yourself that taking them down is the right thing to do then I say have it and I hope the wind blows like hell. And when the crops are dried up to shit you can use some of that $300/acre net profit mentioned earlier to buy high priced groceries like everyone has to.... Just my .02

 

[Davey Crockett]

If you have ever followed anything I have said, I readily admit there are those that "work the system", and that I don;t think much of the "system". But I don;t know what "system" you are talking about when it comes to removing tree rows.

Can you share the years that ND has seen a state drought that has prevented any crops from growing as was implied?
Perhaps there is, I have only been farming 36 years and my family for 92 years so perhaps there has been.

I have seen two years out of the last 4 that a crop has not been seeded due to excessive moisture.

We know that DL has overflowed down the Tolna coulee several times from excessive moisture long before man impacted the land.

What we do know is as long as no till HAS been around, it HAS prevented soil erosion. What we do know is it DOES improve soil tilth and moisture retention significantly.

If you can predict the future well enough to accurately predict the next drought that will prevent any crops from growing for two years so I can plan and manage accordingly please let me know, you would be a wealthy man.

The simple fact is history shows droughts that severe do NOT happen that often in the northern plains. Does it mean they will not..of course not. But when you wish to tell people they do not know what they are doing in managing their business, it helps if you have some experience yourself in managing that business yourself.

I like to buy and wear comfy shoes............that does not mean I know enough to tell the shoe store owner how to run his business.

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Here is the deal guys if we do get a drought severe enough to keep any crops from growing tree rows will not STOP soil erosion. They will stop the soil as it is blowing if the wind blows it cross ways to them but they will not STOP soil erosion.

North/south tree rows will not stop erosion when the wind is from the north or the south, likewise east west.

The only way to prevent soil erosion in those cases is to surround the quarter with tree rows and then place them every 40 rods minimum. We farm a couple quarters that are exactly like that. THOSE two quarters have been by far the wettest quarters that we have NOT been able to farm two out of the last 4 years BECAUSE OF THE TREES and the snow they stop. There are pretty large parts of the fields that are in most years dry enough to seed, but are difficult if not impossible to get to because of moisture that prevents us from getting to those areas.

You just are not going to see that happen with todays large equipment.

Like I said, I like tree rows. We have planted several miles of them even though they take an incredible amount of work to get started and maintain.

But farming HAS changed whether people like it or not.

You done pouting yet so you can come out and play again?

 

[outdoor]

In my area there is a LOT of rented land. A lot of those landowners do not live in the area. Do you think they care about trees or want to spend the money on replacing them?

 

[PrairieGhost]

Happy for the rain last night. It has been blowing for five days. So much dust in the air there was limited visibility. I took my grandson out to do some long range shooting at a friends place. You could hardly see, then when you went prone you got sand blasted. If not for the rain last night I was going to have to hose the dirt of the front stone deck. My neighbor dozed his one rows two years ago. Now the yard is full of corn leaves in winter and dirty in summer. Corn four years in a row. I thought that was hard on the soil. New planter puts rows 30% closer together too.

 

[deleted_account]

you done pouting yet so you can come out and play again?

stop it

 

[NDSportsman]

I live in the country in central ND and the dust storms have been terrible. There were times this morning i couldnt see the highway which is about 75 yards from the house. Lots of fields were just rolled prior to the beans going in and that dirt is blowing like flour. I went out to mow the lawn today and there was so much dust that i stopped mowing. All the crp and tree rows coming out was a big mistake. Many farmers around here are actually saying that crp should have never gone out.

You who could have seen this coming....:::

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Happy for the rain last night. It has been blowing for five days. So much dust in the air there was limited visibility. I took my grandson out to do some long range shooting at a friends place. You could hardly see, then when you went prone you got sand blasted. If not for the rain last night I was going to have to hose the dirt of the front stone deck. My neighbor dozed his one rows two years ago. Now the yard is full of corn leaves in winter and dirty in summer. Corn four years in a row. I thought that was hard on the soil. New planter puts rows 30% closer together too.

Well not if you pump enough anhydrous ammonia to it! Remember they need to get that fricking corn to the ethonal plants to save the planet from evil oil! lol

 

[SDMF]

I came through Valley City last night about 9:00 and whatever the buildings are S across '94 from John Deere had so much dirt blowing it actually looked like a blizzard. There was a doggone Canadian trucker that even slowed down due to the poor visibility.