Feel That? Another Lead Ammo Ban attempt is in the wind...

[Account Deleted]

That is true but once it gets past the initial hurdle of hide and rib bones (on a typical "good" hit) the only thing stopping it is comparatively soft organs and the space in between those organs. Wish I could see it in real time. You're right thought with the KE being weak. Not sure on a good hit how it would get to the backstraps as it would half to go through bone again.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Ballistic tip, varmageddon, hollow-point varmint, Hornady SX/Speer TNT/Sierra Blitz King type bullets are the only ones that are really designed to expend all of their energy upon impact. Everything else is designed for some level of penetration. The more the bullet is designed to penetrate, the more likely that its energy transfer is a narrower cone. When I look at high-speed video of bullet performance within ballistic geletin it looks like there's an awful lot of damage that happens BEHIND the bullet. That's the long way around I really have no idea nor do I have the technical background to do the research and publish conclusions.

I think that is about right. I think the things I shoot with hard cast have very little lead.

I am confused how so much lead ends up in all this venison. Are people texas heart shotting all their deer? How much lead could possibly end up in your average "decent" vitals (lung/heart) shot? Maybe some retained in ribs on opposite side?

I am not going to worry about venison or big game that much. I worry more about casting bullets and breathing lead. I have a 200 cfpm fan carrying air from around my lead pot and blowing it outside. I think those new bonded core bullets are going to leave very little lead in meat. Like others mentioned most of that in lungs. The heart may or may not be edible, but you will know when you pick it up and look at it. A VMax to the hams may not leave you with the best steaks.

I think with a little awareness and common sense were all ok. The ducks with ingested shot not so much. I'm glad I don't have a gizzard or I would be dead already.

 

[svnmag]

This must be why Grandad died at 96.

 

[Bed Wetter]

Guy, lets look @ the 2 most popular sizes of deer hunting projectiles. 150gn 30-06 or 130gn 270Win both run ~3K fps and most factory rifles chambered for these rounds are 1:10" twist. The bullet turns 1.2 times/ft. So 3000fps x 1.2 turns/ft x 60 sec = 216,000 RPM. There's an awful lot of energy available to spin fragments well away from the initial wound channel.

It'd be interesting to see mocked up ballistic gelatin deer with hide/bones etc.

^^WINNER^^

When the question was raised, "How does the lead spread so far?" this is exactly what came to mind. You have a fast spinning projectile impacting a target with tremendous energy. Just watch one of those slow-motion clips on YouTube when they shoot a high powered rifle into ballistic gelatin. The hydrostatic shock expands and separates the target matter tremendously, then the elasticity of the gel (or tissue) returns it to it's original form.

When you think about how that bullet sheds it's KE upon impact with tissue, it's easy to comprehend how metal particulate from the bullet could spread so far from the impact point and wound channel.

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Hey Muskellunge,

Serious question: if we made up some ballistic gelatin and shot it with a deer rifle, could you get it x-rayed and show us the results? Maybe we could learn something about the lead cloud left behind by the projectile.

 

[svnmag]

I hope NOT. This could frighten the salamander.

 

[guywhofishes]

Google "lead bullet fragments in venison"

gelatin images here
https://www.foodpolicy.umn.edu/poli...ing-ammunition-and-implications-public-health

I maintain that generous carving about the bullet path removes the vast majority unless it's one of those unholy disaster shots.

 

[gst]

Why the worry? We will die from smoke from wood stoves or global warming long before. But I will die knowing age, environment and breeding changes can impact the penis length of certain ducks.
Proving how important this study will benefit not only all waterfowlkind, but all mankind as well:

http://www.examiner.com/article/feds-drop-385k-to-study-duck-penis-length

 

[Bed Wetter]

Neat.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Neat.

Thanks, that gives us an idea of how much trimming we have to do.

 

[Bed Wetter]

Thanks, that gives us an idea of how much trimming we have to do.

I think the lead trace probably extends further when shooting deer because animal hair, bone, and tissue is not consistent like ballistics gel.

 

[Account Deleted]

I think the lead trace probably extends further when shooting deer because animal hair, bone, and tissue is not consistent like ballistics gel.

Exactly. Lot of open space in the chest cavity.

 

[SDMF]

I think the lead trace probably extends further when shooting deer because animal hair, bone, and tissue is not consistent like ballistics gel.

Yep, catch a rib bone or scapula on the way in and it isn't going to look like the pics above.

 

[johnr]

It's tough to live a normal happy life when every aspect of it causes worry.
I guess.mom's basement might be the safest alternative after all. Why did I ever venture into this scary world anyway.
I'm going to buy a bicycle helmet and start wearing it 24/7

 

[svnmag]

Why the worry? We will die from smoke from wood stoves or global warming long before. But I will die knowing age, environment and breeding changes can impact the penis length of certain ducks.
Proving how important this study will benefit not only all waterfowlkind, but all mankind as well:

http://www.examiner.com/article/feds-drop-385k-to-study-duck-penis-length

That's a real peach. Posted on Bed Wetter's Anxiety thread. The Duck cheerleader was a bit over the line. I'm sure her and her parents are thrilled with being associated with this article. Well, it's Oregon so this may be an achievement.

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Sooo do you guys agree with the lead ban?...

 

[Account Deleted]

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Sooo do you guys agree with the lead ban?...

No. Not really. I was thinking about making the switch to Barnes anyway because I like their performance/consistency. I think the amount of mourning dove they say die from it is vastly overstated.

 

[SDMF]

Sooo do you guys agree with the lead ban?...

No. I only agree that the lead is detectable. There's a big difference between "detectable" and "bioavailable".

 

[guywhofishes]

How often have you guys run into these bits/pieces of lead while chewing? I have, but rarely. If it ends up in venison at concentrations and occurences suggested I'd be spitting little hard bits out pretty often. Even a tiny piece makes itself known to teeth during chewing.

 

[svnmag]

Understood. I could really GAF if it was PHASED out of bullets. My concern is shot. I don't own a single gun rated for steel and don't want to install chokes or screw with bismuth, etc. I'm thankful to the Lord I've never been hungry enough to swallow a pellet.

 

[Account Deleted]

How often have you guys run into these bits/pieces of lead while chewing? I have, but rarely. If it ends up in venison at concentrations and occurences suggested I'd be spitting little hard bits out pretty often. Even a tiny piece makes itself known to teeth during chewing.

In venison? Never that I could tell. In birds, I miss shot every now and then.

 

[svnmag]

I have to back pedal just a bit. Stand by for edit.

Except:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2aQpVKiCN8