Can you say recession

[Reprobait]

Judging by the fireworks that were shot off in my neighborhood the economy is humming right along.

 

[wslayer]

Judging by the fireworks that were shot off in my neighborhood the economy is humming right along.

Yea, you got that right.

 

[measure-it]

2 points:most fireworks are made in china..support their economy?
:if you are complaining about 1 night of fireworks noise, you've missed the celebration of our country & freedoms. Live with it!

 

[3Roosters]

Another thing that is probably adding to job openings everywhere, especially in the entry level service industry. High school age kids involved in sports....sports have become a year round sport... be it hockey, bball, vball..you name it.. Summer camps summer camps summer camps. Coaches are prob promoting enrolling enrolling enrolling or you will be left behind. No time to work (so they think). I firmly believe this has a lot to do with low numbers of youngsters applying/working at entry level jobs. Thus mommy and daddy have to pay for their kids lifestyle...phones, car, insurance, etc.

 

[deleted member]

i was making $15-16/hour driving bus in the 90s during the school year at college and paying my "employees" who helped me with my tree cutting business in the summer $20/hour cash.

the median wage in ND in 2022 was about 41k/year. that's about exactly $20/hour. "average" per capita is about $70k. so, the idea that $20 in todays world is "good money", isn't quite penciling out in my head. it barely scratches a comfortable living wage. and, here is the thing: except for the lack of laborers, very few, if any, of those construction companies are struggling financially. they will bill $100-125/hour for every swinging hammer on the job site, pay them $20, pocket a minimum of $50-75/hour per hammer after all labor expenses are calculated, pat themselves on the back and wonder why "nobody wants to work". the fact is... especially in ND... they are working.... just not for them cause the pay doesn't justify the work.

 

[Jiffy]

Another thing that is probably adding to job openings everywhere, especially in the entry level service industry. High school age kids involved in sports....sports have become a year round sport... be it hockey, bball, vball..you name it.. Summer camps summer camps summer camps. Coaches are prob promoting enrolling enrolling enrolling or you will be left behind. No time to work (so they think). I firmly believe this has a lot to do with low numbers of youngsters applying/working at entry level jobs. Thus mommy and daddy have to pay for their kids lifestyle...phones, car, insurance, etc.

I never did that with my daughter and still wouldn't!! School is for an education, not to play sports.

Before all the "Soccer Moms" lambast me with the pros of having your kids in 99999 different extracurricular activities just save it! It's gotten WAY out of control and even the soccer mom's have to see this. Problem is they don't care, they live for the shit, more so than most of the kids playing.

It's pretty ridiculous to be that "busy" with bullshit. Anyway...to each their own I guess.

 

[wslayer]

I never did that with my daughter and still wouldn't!! School is for an education, not to play sports.

Before all the "Soccer Moms" lambast me with the pros of having your kids in 99999 different extracurricular activities just save it! It's gotten WAY out of control and even the soccer mom's have to see this. Problem is they don't care, they live for the shit, more so than most of the kids playing.

It's pretty ridiculous to be that "busy" with bullshit. Anyway...to each their own I guess.

Agree, got a neighbor who's daughter was in numerous sports throughout high school. Never worked a day, and then went to college for a yr so far on a minor softball scholarship. Back home for the summer and still not working. Parents chase around to many of the events, with overnight stays. Has to be expensive as hell, (food, motels, gas )and the girl isn't learning any responsibility of paying her way in life.
Back in the day, it was paper routes, mowing jobs, etc in 8th grade.

 

[Obi-Wan]

i was making $15-16/hour driving bus in the 90s during the school year at college and paying my "employees" who helped me with my tree cutting business in the summer $20/hour cash.

the median wage in ND in 2022 was about 41k/year. that's about exactly $20/hour. "average" per capita is about $70k. so, the idea that $20 in todays world is "good money", isn't quite penciling out in my head. it barely scratches a comfortable living wage. and, here is the thing: except for the lack of laborers, very few, if any, of those construction companies are struggling financially. they will bill $100-125/hour for every swinging hammer on the job site, pay them $20, pocket a minimum of $50-75/hour per hammer after all labor expenses are calculated, pat themselves on the back and wonder why "nobody wants to work". the fact is... especially in ND... they are working.... just not for them cause the pay doesn't justify the work.

Can I ask what do you do for a living and what does your company charge for your labor ?

I never said $ 20 was " good money " it is a base starting pay with no experience.

I notice you paid " your employees" cash which meant you didn't pay SS, unemployment tax, WSI tax among other and I bet you also didn't have business insurance. What did you charge your customers per hour when you paid out $ 20 cash for labor? Did you " pocket any money " ? I guess if we wanted to run a business illegally as you did back in the 90's we could pay $ 30/40 per hr.

" pocket a minimum of $50-75/hour per hammer after all labor expenses are calculated, " ??? where do you get your facts ?

Where do you think the money comes from for vehicles, equipment, tools, fuel, vehicle maintenance, company phones, rent/bldg payment, utilities, business insurance, along with all the other overhead expenses to keep the doors of a business open?

 

[Fester]

i was making $15-16/hour driving bus in the 90s during the school year at college and paying my "employees" who helped me with my tree cutting business in the summer $20/hour cash.

the median wage in ND in 2022 was about 41k/year. that's about exactly $20/hour. "average" per capita is about $70k. so, the idea that $20 in todays world is "good money", isn't quite penciling out in my head. it barely scratches a comfortable living wage. and, here is the thing: except for the lack of laborers, very few, if any, of those construction companies are struggling financially. they will bill $100-125/hour for every swinging hammer on the job site, pay them $20, pocket a minimum of $50-75/hour per hammer after all labor expenses are calculated, pat themselves on the back and wonder why "nobody wants to work". the fact is... especially in ND... they are working.... just not for them cause the pay doesn't justify the work.

Yup agree...goes back to... Mr. CEO needs to re-evaluate the pay scale. These companies want to suck as much profit as they can from the consumer..which I fully understand ....make money...but you can't complain about keeping or getting employees when your not paying them...

 

[Fester]

I never did that with my daughter and still wouldn't!! School is for an education, not to play sports.

Before all the "Soccer Moms" lambast me with the pros of having your kids in 99999 different extracurricular activities just save it! It's gotten WAY out of control and even the soccer mom's have to see this. Problem is they don't care, they live for the shit, more so than most of the kids playing.

It's pretty ridiculous to be that "busy" with bullshit. Anyway...to each their own I guess.

I know a kid that had all his college paid for from these sports....an he is now a very successful Dr.. always another point if view even though you may not agree or like it. The money he made from his scholarships trumped any money he would have made and saved in highschool.

 

[Jiffy]

Everyone knows someone like that. Good for them!!

The VAST majority don't and everyone knows that.

 

[deleted member]

obi, i wasn't directing my diatribe at anyone specific. definitely not you. anyway...

i will not answer the first question.

but, will gladly address the others. i put "employees" in quotes because its quite obvious... as you explained... they weren't employees in the classic sense. i ran that operation for 3 months out of the year during the summer. the guys who worked for me were friends. i was young and dumb and all of the rules weren't followed. but, they were making 4-500/week working 20-25/hours/week for 10-12 weeks during the summer. i didn't charge the customer by the hour. i bid the job and then did the job for whatever the bid was. sometimes i made $150/hour after paying them. sometimes, $100/hour. i did have your classic other expenses though like vehicles, equipment, fuel, advertising and insurance. here's the point though....

at least in these parts... lake region... the guys doing this type of work either bid it or actually invoice it in the range of $100-125 per man hour. much like auto body, electrician, plumber, etc... those are more in the 125-150/hour range these days. either way... assume i am running 5 guys on a construction crew at $125/hour. i pay them $25/hour (which most don't) and the actual cost of that labor after wsi, payroll, ssi, unemployment, etc... is $50/hour (which i think is steep unless i am terrible at math). that means i am making $75/hour x 5 = $375/hour. that's well north of 750k/year. now lets business expense off 50% of that cause we can "write off" (according to kramer) everything from personal side by sides to snowblowers to the wife's suburban. that means i am making 375k year running a construction company. if the lack of laborers is costing me the ability to actually work at my fullest capacity, it seems the wisest solution would be to just pay them a bit more because... in the grand scheme of things... the cost of labor is a relatively small percentage of doing business. main point: no sense nickel and diming the single most necessary asset for the company to actually make money.

 

[Allen]

Agree, got a neighbor who's daughter was in numerous sports throughout high school. Never worked a day, and then went to college for a yr so far on a minor softball scholarship. Back home for the summer and still not working. Parents chase around to many of the events, with overnight stays. Has to be expensive as hell, (food, motels, gas )and the girl isn't learning any responsibility of paying her way in life.
Back in the day, it was paper routes, mowing jobs, etc in 8th grade.

I have known several hockey parents over the years. When they are being honest about the cost of a full-time hockey kid, $10k/year isn't out of the question. I'm sure it can be done for less, but if the parents travel to all the away games and tournaments, the vehicle expenses, hotel bills, and eating out routinely can really add up. A coworker had a son and a daughter in hockey up until just a few years ago. They often had mom going one direction and dad another to accompany their kids. I remember one time they went split directions where dad was in Williston and mom was in Thief River Falls for hockey tournaments.

Like has been mentioned already, there are plenty of sports nowadays (volleyball, baseball, basketball, soccer, wrestling and XXXXX) that a kid can do all year long.

Don't get me wrong. There are lots of benefits to kids being involved in sports, but the cost is steep and the societal side-effects of not having them in the part of the workforce they once occupied are there.

 

[deleted member]

to touch on this ^^^... there are definitely benefits to playing sports. but, especially in the scenario of all year long and nearly every weekend or 20+ weekends a year, its definitely worth discussing the cost/benefit scenario. assuming $10k/year for an average of 8 years, that's 80K+ interest over an 8 year span. the % of folks getting scholarships for sports that would justify that sort of financial sacrifice is small i would guess. and certain folks are definitely able to handle education and college sports.... especially an education like dr, lawyer, engineer, etc... but, with most folk, playing sports in college is going to affect their ability to focus on school.

i long for the good old days of school sports, multiple sports, changing of seasons and a whole lot less of this single sport traveling team bullshit.

 

[Fester]

Everyone knows someone like that. Good for them!!

The VAST majority don't and everyone knows that.

Or they don't try? Also know a number of kids that had a chunk of college paid for with academic scholarships..they focused 100% on school and had 3.6 GPA and higher and the colleges gave them atleast 50% off for academic...now if they would have worked instead of studying would the GPA been that high? Doubtful..but maybe. Again more then one way to look at it...just cause it may not have worked for you or your kids doesn't mean it's wrong. I won't judge...my kids worked through highschool but that's my choice and theirs, but I sure as hell am not gonna judge a kid that doesn't work...that's their path and it does NOT make it wrong because you or your family or your beliefs didn't go that route. And to say a VAST majority don't get scholarships is wrong also..most colleges offer some sort of scholarship, whether the student applies for it or qualifies is another thing. The academic scholarships allow the schools to weed out the kids that are there to party vs focus on school. Look around how many scholarships und,ndsu, u of mary hand out....i would say the vast majority recieve something....unless your a c student....

 

[Fester]

I have known several hockey parents over the years. When they are being honest about the cost of a full-time hockey kid, $10k/year isn't out of the question. I'm sure it can be done for less, but if the parents travel to all the away games and tournaments, the vehicle expenses, hotel bills, and eating out routinely can really add up. A coworker had a son and a daughter in hockey up until just a few years ago. They often had mom going one direction and dad another to accompany their kids. I remember one time they went split directions where dad was in Williston and mom was in Thief River Falls for hockey tournaments.

Like has been mentioned already, there are plenty of sports nowadays (volleyball, baseball, basketball, soccer, wrestling and XXXXX) that a kid can do all year long.

Don't get me wrong. There are lots of benefits to kids being involved in sports, but the cost is steep and the societal side-effects of not having them in the part of the workforce they once occupied are there.

Yeah cost is steep when you choose the absolute most expensive sport in the world ha...

 

[guywhofishes]

I know kids who learned to drink watching their parents drink like fish every weekend on traveling teams.

In fact, for many parents, the drinking and "tailgating" at the hotel was a BIG part of traveling teams.

Now their kids seem relativley one-dimensional. They're no longer participating in the big sport - but don't have a very wide range of interests like most kids. They got pigeonholed in a sense.

Kinda sad.

 

[Maddog]

I know a kid that had all his college paid for from these sports....an he is now a very successful Dr.. always another point if view even though you may not agree or like it. The money he made from his scholarships trumped any money he would have made and saved in highschool.

it is not about the money, but the lessons learned earning it

 

[Jiffy]

Or they don't try? Also know a number of kids that had a chunk of college paid for with academic scholarships..they focused 100% on school and had 3.6 GPA and higher and the colleges gave them atleast 50% off for academic...now if they would have worked instead of studying would the GPA been that high? Doubtful..but maybe. Again more then one way to look at it...just cause it may not have worked for you or your kids doesn't mean it's wrong. I won't judge...my kids worked through highschool but that's my choice and theirs, but I sure as hell am not gonna judge a kid that doesn't work...that's their path and it does NOT make it wrong because you or your family or your beliefs didn't go that route. And to say a VAST majority don't get scholarships is wrong also..most colleges offer some sort of scholarship, whether the student applies for it or qualifies is another thing. The academic scholarships allow the schools to weed out the kids that are there to party vs focus on school. Look around how many scholarships und,ndsu, u of mary hand out....i would say the vast majority recieve something....unless your a c student....

If they don't f'en try, why in Sam hell would you spend all that kind of time and money on a high school sport?!?! I call BS!!

Just went through the whole college thing with my daughter (she just graduated this spring) and I couldn't disagree with you more. The VAST MAJORITY of kids going to college have NO scholarships. ZERO.....Where the hell is this magical 50% off for tuition?!? I call BS again!!

She was 4.0 all the way through high school and on the Dean's List every single time at NDSU. We looked at all the complete BS crap NDSU and the likes put out for "scholarships" and it was laughable.

You're not going to change my mind on the so called scholarship opportunities for higher education.

 

[Jiffy]

Yeah cost is steep when you choose the absolute most expensive sport in the world ha...

Wrong again.....dance is higher and it's not even close.