Habitat Hunting Access Summit

[BrockW]

Wind Cave National Park (no hunting or baiting) is south of Custer State Park South Dakota. It has a high fence around it. The elk population has CWD and is growing. So, the feds took the fence down in spots and used helicopters to chase hundreds of them out.

Where was the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies "best management practices"?

Do as we say, not as we do.

Fritz, perhaps another one of your twists on the facts. But just so it’s clear for everyone else, it’s not as if they were pushing infected elk into the wild. They were using helicopters to push some elk into Custer state park, because Wind Cave and Custer are connected.

At that time, elk had a low prevalence in the area. But, and this is the context that matters, Custer state park also already had CWD.

So it’s not as if they were pushing a bunch of infected animals into a new, uninfected area. They were pushing elk from one low prevalence area to another low prevalence area lower the population.

That is vastly different than what you are trying portray.

https://starherald.com/news/state-a...cle_1ee828bc-83bb-11e2-9bcf-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[Obi-Wan]

Griz, swift fox, black-footed ferret, gray wolf, caribou, bison.

Elk and bighorns wouldn’t be here without man stepping in.

Aren't the bighorns in ND a different sub species than what was originally here?

 

[BrockW]

when the disease itself takes 7-11 years to manifest!!!!!

that’s absurdly incorrect. They have 9 month old fawns dying of the disease and many examples of 2 yr old deer dying as well.

 

[Kurtr]

I’ve never seen one assertion from anyone that baiting is the “cause” of CWD.

What we know to be fact, is that it is horizontally transmitted and that we can find infectious prions in mineral licks, bait/feed piles, and on feeders where positive/infected deer eat. We know that when we put uninfected deer in with other infected deer, or make them eat out of troughs or off the ground where infected deer also eat, the disease spreads to the uninfected animals. The more they come into contact with those infectious materials/sites, the more deer become positive.

So, the goal with removing baiting from the landscape is removing specific concentration points where deer are literally eating off the same plate, where they are pissing and shitting and depositing saliva into a small focused area, contaminating the feed/feeder, soil, etc and where they keep coming back to over and over and over again to lick/eat.

None of that is a guess.

Is our rate of cwd way lower than ND since baiting has been banned for well over 30 years? It’s a yes or no answer . I don’t need all the diatribe.

 

[BrockW]

How in the heck did the deer population survive for thousands of years without the NDGF, or the "scientists"?

Guess what, God will make more deer, the problem will, as always solve itself.

At the turn of the century there were almost no deer in North Dakota. When they first opened a season m, it was estimated there was loess than 10k deer in the entire state.

 

[bravo]

Aren't the bighorns in ND a different sub species than what was originally here?

I could be wrong but I think they’ve tried them from a few separate herds but I don’t know the genetics. Canada and Montana sheep were used? And the newest herd (that I’ve heard very little about other than they’re doing well) in the new town area. I’m curious if the herd south of I94 was a subspecies that just never had a chance to do well in ND.

 

[BrockW]

Apple Creek Whitetails is in Wisconsin. They promote humic acid.

bravo makes another false claim.

Ahhh the humic acid cure again. That brings back such fond memories. As an FYI, Apple Creek whitetails is up to 755 CWD positives as of August 2024. Humic acid is the fix huh?

I’ve spoken with most of the researchers that have worked with Apple creek whitetails on different projects. Most of those researchers refuse to work with Apple creek now because they are in complete denial about what’s going on their own farm. If they found a cure wouldn’t those folks want to be involved

When I showed those folks the claims Dusty and Jon Peiper were making, they got a good laugh out of it. Then they sent me some memes for the Chronic Wasting dis ease meme page. They thought that page could use a dose of reality. Turns out some scientists have a good sense of humor.

 

[johnr]

Griz, swift fox, black-footed ferret, gray wolf, caribou, bison.

Elk and bighorns wouldn’t be here without man stepping in.

Survival of the fittest. Its a real thing.

I do like when the government killed all those chickens, we are safer now.

All kidding aside, if the deer population decimates to non existence, maybe we get a gooder huntable animal.

 

[Trip McNeely]

I could be wrong but I think they’ve tried them from a few separate herds but I don’t know the genetics. Canada and Montana sheep were used? And the newest herd (that I’ve heard very little about other than they’re doing well) in the new town area. I’m curious if the herd south of I94 was a subspecies that just never had a chance to do well in ND.

Arent the newest additions Alberta bighorns?

 

[BrockW]

so why the enormous amount of energy and money to sell this?

Because there’s an enormous disinformation campaign…you know, the one you’re promoting and supporting.

 

[Allen]

How in the heck did the deer population survive for thousands of years without the NDGF, or the "scientists"?

Guess what, God will make more deer, the problem will, as always solve itself.

Or not. One of the odder, but generally ignored questions in history are examples of critters going extinct due to disease related collapses of the population. Significant collapses related to disease, or even over hunting of a species can create a scenario where the species goes extinct. Neither the last Passenger Pigeon or the last Tasmanian Tiger died due to being shot by a human.

Just look at the population decline in bats due to white-nose syndrome (fungus infection).
https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-...lled-over-90-three-north-american-bat-species

Unless bats somehow develop an immunity to fungus, there is certainly a strong downward trend in the population.

 

[BrockW]

Is our rate of cwd way lower than ND since baiting has been banned for well over 30 years? It’s a yes or no answer . I don’t need all the diatribe.

Compare SD and Saskatchewan. They’ve had CWD almost exactly the same duration of time. Minus 1 year. One allows baiting, one does not. The difference is striking to say the least.

SD has more CWD than ND because it’s been there longer. But ND is actually, at least currently, on a better trajectory than SD was at the same time duration. Wind cave park outbreak has sort of distorted that though.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Fritz, perhaps another one of your twists on the facts. But just so it’s clear for everyone else, it’s not as if they were pushing infected elk into the wild. They were using helicopters to push some elk into Custer state park, because Wind Cave and Custer are connected.

At that time, elk had a low prevalence in the area. But, and this is the context that matters, Custer state park also already had CWD.

So it’s not as if they were pushing a bunch of infected animals into a new, uninfected area. They were pushing elk from one low prevalence area to another low prevalence area lower the population.

That is vastly different than what you are trying portray.

https://starherald.com/news/state-a...cle_1ee828bc-83bb-11e2-9bcf-001a4bcf887a.html

Brock has great access to maps as he is a GIS geographic information systems technician for the Department of Mineral Resources in Bismarck.

Must be another slow day at the office.

 

[bravo]

^You are such a damn child, old man.

 

[Trip McNeely]

Or not. One of the odder, but generally ignored questions in history are examples of critters going extinct due to disease related collapses of the population. Significant collapses related to disease, or even over hunting of a species can create a scenario where the species goes extinct. Neither the last Passenger Pigeon or the last Tasmanian Tiger died due to being shot by a human.

Just look at the population decline in bats due to white-nose syndrome (fungus infection).
https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-...lled-over-90-three-north-american-bat-species

Unless bats somehow develop an immunity to fungus, there is certainly a strong downward trend in the population.

Then you pay for it. Anyone that agrees can foot the bill for all of it. People aren’t arguing to the validity of some of the points or disease in general. They are arguing at the cost associated given the information we have now and a narrative with bullet holes all over it and the seriousness of the disease as a whole. Im not against throwing a couple million to have unbiased research tucked away in a facility until they have definitive answers. Im against throwing hundreds of millions to billions of dollars and putting pre-mature private property restrictions in place for something no one really has any great answers for. It makes zero sense to put the cart way out in front of the horse with an abundance of caution for something that has literally killed zero 100% confirmed deer in ND

 

[Fritz the Cat]

^You are such a damn child, old man.

mad bravo face

 

[guywhofishes]

 

[Trip McNeely]

Push the second button…. Be a man.

 

[risingsun]

All kidding aside, if the deer population decimates to non existence, maybe we get a gooder huntable animal.

^^^^^^

Hire the dude from Montana. He can codger/clone up some sort of critter.

 

[Kurtr]

Compare SD and Saskatchewan. They’ve had CWD almost exactly the same duration of time. Minus 1 year. One allows baiting, one does not. The difference is striking to say the least.

SD has more CWD than ND because it’s been there longer. But ND is actually, at least currently, on a better trajectory than SD was at the same time duration. Wind cave park outbreak has sort of distorted that though.

Does colorado allow baiting or wyoming?