Mountain Lion Meeting in Fargo tonight, who's going?

[Lycanthrope]

Id like to watch the video of last nights meeting, can someone please point me in the direction of it on the GF website, or youtube, or wherever they keep these?

Also curious WHY need a sustainable MT lion population in the state at all? Is there FED money involved in promoting this?

 

[gst]

Id like to watch the video of last nights meeting, can someone please point me in the direction of it on the GF website, or youtube, or wherever they keep these?

Also curious WHY need a sustainable MT lion population in the state at all? Is there FED money involved in promoting this?

The same reason we need a sustainable population of Dakota Skippers and Powesheik Skipperlings.

For the record, I don;t mind having mt. lions around.

 

[Account Deleted]

The same reason we need a sustainable population of Dakota Skippers and Powesheik Skipperlings.

For the record, I don;t mind having mt. lions around.

No. No it's not. That is rather disingenuous.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

I disagree with most of you... I think there should be a sustainable mountain lion population. The mule deer population can co-exist with mountain lions.

 

[Account Deleted]

I disagree with most of you... I think there should be a sustainable mountain lion population. The mule deer population can co-exist with mountain lions.

That's fine. And they probably can co-exist. They've been doing it for the last 10,000 years. I just don't think the NDGF should be concerned with managing mountain lions.

 

[gst]

No. No it's not. That is rather disingenuous.

Ghost my apologies, I should have put a little winking icon behind that statement or perhaps the "sarcasm" warning. .

It stems from a meeting I attended in Minot on the USF&WS listing those two butterflies as endangered.

The gal speaking was very articulate and had lots of statistics. She claimed that these two butterflies must be kept from going extinct and they (the govt) must control mans impact to save them.

When she was done I posed two questions'

1. Given they fact they admitted that these butterflies had not been documented here in ND for at least a decade, what negative effects could she share happening because of their removal from the ecosystem?

2. How do we know that given the hundreds of thousands if not millions of species that went extinct before mankind's existance and impact on this planet(if that is what you believe) how do we know keeping these two butterflies from going extinct is not messing with natures natural progression?

She got a pretty funny look on her face and I never got an answer for either question.

The point is, a lot of times it is the same "science" behind these decisions, and that type of "science" can have very serious consequences if allowed to be driven by agendas rather than actual science.

 

[Account Deleted]

Point 1 is false and point 2 is a silly question.

For your first comparison, skippers and skipperlings are endangered across their entire range. All species are worth saving if we reasonably can. The mountain lion is endangered nowhere.

 

[KDM]

I disagree with most of you... I think there should be a sustainable mountain lion population. The mule deer population can co-exist with mountain lions.

Why do you think ND should have lions?

 

[Captain Ahab]

Ghost my apologies, I should have put a little winking icon behind that statement or perhaps the "sarcasm" warning. .

It stems from a meeting I attended in Minot on the USF&WS listing those two butterflies as endangered.

The gal speaking was very articulate and had lots of statistics. She claimed that these two butterflies must be kept from going extinct and they (the govt) must control mans impact to save them.

When she was done I posed two questions'

1. Given they fact they admitted that these butterflies had not been documented here in ND for at least a decade, what negative effects could she share happening because of their removal from the ecosystem?

2. How do we know that given the hundreds of thousands if not millions of species that went extinct before mankind's existance and impact on this planet(if that is what you believe) how do we know keeping these two butterflies from going extinct is not messing with natures natural progression?

She got a pretty funny look on her face and I never got an answer for either question.

The point is, a lot of times it is the same "science" behind these decisions, and that type of "science" can have very serious consequences if allowed to be driven by agendas rather than actual science.

On another note, who would miss the piping plover?

 

[sweeney]

I can't wait until we get wolves and bears maybe the occasional jungle kitty, there are some good threads from the FBO days on these big dumb kittys

 

[gst]

Point 1 is false and point 2 is a silly question.

For your first comparison, skippers and skipperlings are endangered across their entire range. All species are worth saving if we reasonably can. The mountain lion is endangered nowhere.

I guess we just went from light hearted to serious...........

How can "point 1" be false? ..........it is a question.

Please answer point 2, even if you think it "silly"?

Tell us how man and our progression is simply not another species impacting others in the natural evolution of things? If one believes in evolution, how can it be argued it is not? (remember, most of these "scientists" believe in evolution)

How do you know under the process of evolution that the disappearance of the Dakota Skipper is not simply making room for the evolution of another species? If mankind keeps regenerating at the pace we are, other species will have to go extinct eventually to provide sustinance for an expanding population.............until perhaps another meteor strikes the earth and we start all over again.

The questions that night were asked to make the point that while yes perhaps we need to watch our impact on the planet and other species, the impacts of the regulations inevitably imposed to do so also have consequences on another species, mankind and must be weighed accordingly and not allowed to be driven by agenda rather than science.


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On another note, who would miss the piping plover?

Who has missed T Rex?

 

[Callem'In]

Maybe it would not be so bad. Mountain lion may taste like Chicken.....:;:

 

[Account Deleted]

And down the rabbit hole I go.

Point one is incorrect because your "given" is incorrect. I'm not going to cite my source. If you want to know bad enough, you'll find the info. You'll dwell on this for-freaking-ever and repeatedly ask me questions about it, either in bold or italics, but that's your problem. Not mine.

Point 2 is a silly question because of why the skipper and skipperling have declined. They require native prairie and very specific grasses and forbs in large enough patches for their life cylce. We've plowed most of them under. It wasn't mother nature forcing them out. It was us. Not that complicated. You'll ask some convoluted question about this-thinking you've made some profound statement-that really doesn't have an answer because the question isn't worth answering.

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I'll be a little more concise. That Dakota skipper has been in ND over the last ten years. The skipperling has not been seen for quite some time. They require two different types of native prairie.

 

[Kurtr]

an ear to the ground OUTSIDE of my 'circle', personal discussions with rural living/non-hunting individuals (to include ranchers/farmers and non), a memory of fbo discussions that were overwhelmingly against a sustainable population, discussions on nda that are overwhelmingly against a sustainable population, kurtr's poorly worded poll (results pending)........

sites like nda and fbo provide a solid cross section of individuals and opinions. most bases do end up getting covered, that is, when svn doesn't immediately pollute/kill a thread with rock videos. :;:smokin

Why is it poorly worded it is a simple yes or no question?

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On another note, who would miss the piping plover?

No one

 

[gst]

Ghost my "Given" of that butterfly species not being documented in the area around Towner, one of which this lady said would fall under govt oversight had not had a documented sighting of either species in over a decade.

I was merely repeating what the "expert" they had speaking to us had shared.

1. Given they fact they admitted that these butterflies had not been documented here in ND for at least a decade, what negative effects could she share happening because of their removal from the ecosystem?

Perhaps if she had her facts wrong.........

2. How do we know that given the hundreds of thousands if not millions of species that went extinct before mankind's existance and impact on this planet(if that is what you believe) how do we know keeping these two butterflies from going extinct is not messing with natures natural progression?

Indeed it was man (a species ) impacting the native prairies which in turn impacted these butterflies, no one is disputing that. The question is, how do you know that is not the natural evolution of our species to continue to feed our species to continue to expand our population until we reach a point where our population is no longer sustainable and natural evolution impacts mankind?

My point you seem to miss is that if one wishes to embrace the science of evolution, as these biologists and scientist most often do, you can not pick and choose what you wish to embrace to suit an agenda, and you must acknowledge that man is just another species evolving to suit their needs.

Now if you wish to argue man kinds evolution has allowed us to think and reason to make choices on how we impact other species and so THAT is a part of the evolutionary process that allows us to decide if our actions are natural or unatural in how they impact other species we can certainly have that discussion.

But my question as I said was not meant to be that in depth, only to give pause to the necessity to understand how the regulations this govt agency wants to put in place to "save" this one butterfly they told us had not been in the area I spoke of for over a decade may actually impact the species of mankind as well.

Don;t read too much into it.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Why do you think ND should have lions?

Because I think they are an awesome animal... and I would like to get one some day. The mule deer numbers will rebound whether cats are around of not. The winters dictate deer numbers way more than a few mountain lions.

 

[Bowhunter_24]

Because I think they are an awesome animal... and I would like to get one some day. The mule deer numbers will rebound whether cats are around of not. The winters dictate deer numbers way more than a few mountain lions.

R u sure about that?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Because I think they are an awesome animal... and I would like to get one some day. The mule deer numbers will rebound whether cats are around of not. The winters dictate deer numbers way more than a few mountain lions.

U sure they are awesome? Why dont you try hugging one sometime!

 

[deleted_account]

R u sure about that?

No

 

[NDSportsman]

That's fine. And they probably can co-exist. They've been doing it for the last 10,000 years. I just don't think the NDGF should be concerned with managing mountain lions.

This. They came from SD and established themselves here without the GNF help.