ND Outfitter Deer Tags

[ndlongshot]

Thanks KDM. I guess I just see it functioning in two ways.

1.) NR draw a tag, Outfitters advertise for their businesses in that pool of recipients every year who may or may not choose to use an outfitter.

2.) Take those NR tags out of pool by granting to Outfitter, which REQUIRES NR to go through the outfitter instead of a chance at their own DIY tag.

Thanks for your input.

Like I said, I know this is a touchy subject but I was curious on everyones thoughts and worth a discussion.

 

[Nanky]

Thanks KDM. I guess I just see it functioning in two ways.

1.) NR draw a tag, Outfitters advertise for their businesses in that pool of recipients every year who may or may not choose to use an outfitter.

2.) Take those NR tags out of pool by granting to Outfitter, which REQUIRES NR to go through the outfitter instead of a chance at their own DIY tag.

Thanks for your input.

Like I said, I know this is a touchy subject but I was curious on everyones thoughts and worth a discussion.

I like Option #1 personally, seems to make the most sense and keeps a free market approach. By allocating tags directly to Outfitters, it creates a very expensive product to a select few non-residents. Definitely an interesting topic.

 

[Kurtr]

really no different in sd here they buy the special buck tag as guiding is not allowed on public land that tag is good for either west or east river on any private land. I know of one guy that did guide for deer up here but most have quit as it is a losing investment in this country. West river has more guiding with bigger tracks of land even at that i walk out my back door to thousands of acres on either side of the river to hunt so i dont really see the guides as hurting any ones chances. I know most of us around here prefer the out of staters to the 1 and 3 SD license plates who seem to think they can drive any where there is an open gate

 

[Ericb]

Thanks KDM. I guess I just see it functioning in two ways.

1.) NR draw a tag, Outfitters advertise for their businesses in that pool of recipients every year who may or may not choose to use an outfitter.

2.) Take those NR tags out of pool by granting to Outfitter, which REQUIRES NR to go through the outfitter instead of a chance at their own DIY tag.

Thanks for your input.

Like I said, I know this is a touchy subject but I was curious on everyones thoughts and worth a discussion.

Remeber these are NR's isnt tourism definded as bringing in people and bleeding them for every last penny they have?

I kind of think your still on the basis that the outfitter is profiting off of the tag. I see it they by a tag for $250 sell for $250 and all other cash exchanged is for the service and land access.

 

[KDM]

KDM will you become an outfitter so I can hunt in ND every year?

NO!! I've seen what the NDGF requires to be an outfitter and you can have that noise. Let alone dealing with some azzhat about how the deer aren't big enough for him or there's not enough deer or it's too cold or posted land or docking dog tails or bikini girls or some other such drivel. No Thanks!! I get enough exposure to that kind of thing right here on NDA.

 

[SDMF]

You guys are looking at this situation from one side of the glass. A major majority of the small towns in ND depended on the business of the non-resident hunters. Has anyone driven through southwestern ND lately? Towns are getting smaller and businesses are closing due to the significant decline in business from non-resident hunters. The restaurant's/bar's/motels have 60-70% of the business they had 10 years ago. Most of this is pertaining to non-resident bird hunters not deer hunters.

CRP killed those towns first. CRP caused an awful lot of auto, implement sales and service, auto parts, and hardware stores to go under when the land was taken out of production and the production dollars weren't turning in town anymore.

 

[dean nelson]

It really makes no never mind to me about these tags. I can have access to them if I want. All I need to be is an outfitter. I choose NOT to be an outfitter. Each ND resident is free to become and outfitter should they so choose as advertised many times here and on their website. Become and outfitter and I think you may very well change your mind about these "Personal Tags" as you call them. I know a couple outfitters that get up to 5 tags per year and they are NOT making a mint on their outfitting business. I'd MUCH rather just drop a cool grand and go hunt deer and elk in Montana than do the immense amount of work to make an outfitting business work. I would say these tags, when you add all the time and effort into making an outfitting business work, costs a crapton more than the grand I would drop for the NR Montana tags. JMHO though.

It's not quite as simple as just deciding you want to be an outfitter. like you said there are a fare few hoops to jump through including having to work for an outfitter for a few years before you can become one yourself. back when I had my outfitters license was at the peak of deer numbers and even then where I was you would have been lucky to get one tag every two years. with such low numbers of tags it stops any chance of a gun based outfitter operation getting going which is a very good thing. we had enough growth in the bow hunting operations the way it is. 100 tags spread between the guides is extremely low so as long as I'm not a nonresident I don't have a problem with it is where it is because it also helps to keep the demand for the out of state tags to a low enough level that pressure doesn't get put on the legislature to increase the present allotted.

 

[Retired Educator]

It's not quite as simple as just deciding you want to be an outfitter. like you said there are a fare few hoops to jump through including having to work for an outfitter for a few years before you can become one yourself. back when I had my outfitters license was at the peak of deer numbers and even then where I was you would have been lucky to get one tag every two years. with such low numbers of tags it stops any chance of a gun based outfitter operation getting going which is a very good thing. we had enough growth in the bow hunting operations the way it is. 100 tags spread between the guides is extremely low so as long as I'm not a nonresident I don't have a problem with it is where it is because it also helps to keep the demand for the out of state tags to a low enough level that pressure doesn't get put on the legislature to increase the present allotted.

Please, Please, Please, whatever you do don't even hint that anyone would benefit by getting the legislature involved in deer tag allotments.

 

[Kurtr]

CRP killed those towns first. CRP caused an awful lot of auto, implement sales and service, auto parts, and hardware stores to go under when the land was taken out of production and the production dollars weren't turning in town anymore.

The dirty little secret most don't want to admit

 

[eyexer]

if am reading right it says nr have to wait for 2nd lottery to get a tag. If thats the case why would the residents that want a tag not applied already

I'm not sure that is the case. Even so, if I put in for a buck and am denied I should be able to put in for 2nd lottery doe and not have to compete with NR's when deer numbers are this low. It's all about the $ for the G&F

- - - Updated - - -

You guys are looking at this situation from one side of the glass. A major majority of the small towns in ND depended on the business of the non-resident hunters. Has anyone driven through southwestern ND lately? Towns are getting smaller and businesses are closing due to the significant decline in business from non-resident hunters. The restaurant's/bar's/motels have 60-70% of the business they had 10 years ago. Most of this is pertaining to non-resident bird hunters not deer hunters.

The non-resident economic effects on small town ND is very important. I almost think that 1% is well below where it "could" be. I do agree that cutting out non-resident tags in certain units would be beneficial. But I feel that they should also throw out that 1% of tag numbers as well. Don't make zero tags available to non-resident's in a specific unit but still keep the 1% of tags that were allotted to non-residents in the pool for residents to pull in the lottery. That is not a way to do things.

I hunt other states as well and would be a little ticked off if that's how they did things.

they get very little to no money from NR deer hunters.

- - - Updated - - -

These #'s are so small its irrelevant. There are probably more people who drew a tag and never tried to fill it then these outfitter tags. Id be willing to bet ND residents purchase way more out of state tags than Nd sells.

I have no clue who or where any outfitters in ND operate. If they're operating soley on public land I would not support this. Some one owning and managing private land would probably benefit all hunters in the area if its managed properly

the actual numbers aren't the problem. It's the principal of it all

 

[Retired Educator]

CRP killed those towns first. CRP caused an awful lot of auto, implement sales and service, auto parts, and hardware stores to go under when the land was taken out of production and the production dollars weren't turning in town anymore.

I agree with this. CRP was great for wildlife and hunters, not so great for small town businesses and schools. For parts of ND that I am familiar with, it not only took away the production dollars, in many cases it took away the people. Farmers got paid for CRP so it could be argued that the production dollars were there, but in many cases they weren't. Lot's of older farmers getting ready to retire and rent the land out to a younger farmer just put their land in CRP, collected the entire payment and retired elsewhere. Small town ND lost a family without gaining another along with the production money.

Schools lost future students by not replacing a retired farmer with another young family taking over the farm. CRP was good in some sense, not so good in others. As a hunter I would love to see CRP acres back to what they were at their highest, but it can't be argued that it was good for all of ND. Most businesses would be far better off with a population that would spend money year-round opposed to non-residents spending money for a few days at a time. Our season's aren't long enough to replace a couple months of income versus a full year.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Guide for two years at $100 per year to the ND Game and Fish

After working for two years as a guide a person can become an Outfitter.

As a Outfitter write a check for $300 dollars to ND G&F. What do you get in return? More paperwork.

A person has to travel to assigned meeting with G&F for aptitude test. Not too tough.

Must know CPR.

Must have $5 million dollars in insurance.

After all that, sit back and cut a fat hog in the ass. Not. Truth is, I dropped it all. The ND G&F offered me five deer tags. $250 dollars each. Never gave it a moments thought. Deer like to roam unto the neighbors or public ground and back. That's trouble. Get him leaving your property somebody somewhere claims you shot his deer. Get him coming back unto your property and ditto.

Anyway, to someone more dedicated, I don't see much wrong with it. What I do know is no one is getting rich.

 

[Nanky]

I think we'll run outfitters are doing pretty well once you factor in non-resident bow hunters as well. Just take a look at some of the lodges these guys build, they are doing pretty well.

 

[zoops]

Why would anyone do it if they weren't making money off of it? Go through all that work just to see the smile on a stranger's face when they shoot a deer when you could be letting friends and family do it, both at no profit? Doubt it

 

[Davey Crockett]

Guide for two years at $100 per year to the ND Game and Fish

After working for two years as a guide a person can become an Outfitter.

As a Outfitter write a check for $300 dollars to ND G&F. What do you get in return? More paperwork.

A person has to travel to assigned meeting with G&F for aptitude test. Not too tough.

Must know CPR.

Must have $5 million dollars in insurance.

After all that, sit back and cut a fat hog in the ass. Not. Truth is, I dropped it all. The ND G&F offered me five deer tags. $250 dollars each. Never gave it a moments thought. Deer like to roam unto the neighbors or public ground and back. That's trouble. Get him leaving your property somebody somewhere claims you shot his deer. Get him coming back unto your property and ditto.

Anyway, to someone more dedicated, I don't see much wrong with it. What I do know is no one is getting rich.

Same here, I was an outfitter just on my own farm until all the BS made me decide it was time to give it up. There is no sin in giving a busy inner city guy that loves to hunt a chance to hunt.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I think we'll run outfitters are doing pretty well once you factor in non-resident bow hunters as well. Just take a look at some of the lodges these guys build, they are doing pretty well.

Chicken or the egg???

Did they make a bunch guiding and then use the money to invest in a lodge? Or did they invest in a lodge first and then try to recover their investment after? Food for thought.

Guiding isn't all that glamorous. Consider this, taking your passion your hobby and turning it into a full time job.

 

[Kurtr]

Yep used to love pheasant hunting now I very rarely just go. If it wasn't for the dogs liking it so much and the kid I would probably never do it unless I was guiding

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Why would anyone do it if they weren't making money off of it? Go through all that work just to see the smile on a stranger's face when they shoot a deer when you could be letting friends and family do it, both at no profit? Doubt it

My neighbor has a pheasant hunting business. At $100 dollars per gun per day how many hunters does he need to make $10,000?
Consider he has about a 30 day window. = capitalism

Because of the pressure, it doesn't take the birds long to learn where sanctuary is over on the neighbors. To keep them coming back he plants several large food plots. Doesn't take long to leave $5000 dollars worth of food out there.

Some of his clients have been with him for 15 years. They are family.

I suppose he could let friends and family hunt at no profit and leave a donation plate out there to pay for the food plots and his sweat equity? It would be a great experiment. = socialism.