Property taxes

[deleted member]

gonna start with one simple example cause i am short on time. but, imagine if you will, you live in steele county for example. population 1800. can't imagine there is enough economic activity in finley, sharon and hope to fund the counties bills via sales tax alone. so, how would one propose paying for their roads, schools, general infrastructure, etc... without property taxes? make the state fund it with $ generated from someone else's pocket is really the only other way to do it? and that's sorta what allen is getting at. the people who own the land that benefit from the infrastructure and services should have to pay for said infrastructure and services.

take it a step further, lets pretend some out of state billionaire comes in and starts buying up farmland. at an average of $1000/acre (that includes tillable, non-tillable, etc...) for example, he could buy the whole county for half of a billion dollars. how much money in alternative taxes do non-resident landowners generate? practically $0.00. again, how's a fella supposed to pay the bills in that county without property taxes.

one of the biggest bitches i had last time around about property taxes was the idea that you never "really own your property" if you are always beholden to the guberment for a tax every year. and that is true. but, there needs to be some mechanism for two things: 1. funding the services that benefit my property. and 2. making sure the government has a mechanism for taking possession of absentee landowner's property who don't pay for said services and/or let their property go to shit.

don't get me wrong, i think we need some sort of overhaul. government is drunk on the tit. but, that's more of a spending problem than it is a property tax system problem imho. and, after nearly a decade? now of thinking about it. i am not sure there is a proposed alternative that is better.

just my 2 cents.

 

[Rowdie]

Another reason to tax property is that is most of the wealth. How many landowners can get out paying income tax by showing no income? So the only tax they would ever pay is sales tax.

 

[Rowdie]

What is the percentage of adults in ND that don't pay for where they live? I would think it would be less than 15%. But I could be wrong. As far as them raising other taxes.....if thats what they think is in the best interest for the people, they can go ahead and try. Thats why we have elections. But in the mean time, while they are trying to figure out a new tax or higher tax, we are not paying property tax.

I would venture to guess that the percent of people owning the home they live in is a lot less than 85%. Lots of people renting out there, a lot more than 15%, only a guess though

 

[Rowdie]

https://www.simplyinsurance.com/how-many-homeowners-in-the-us/

ND at 64% according to this data.

 

[woodduck30]

I would venture to guess that the percent of people owning the home they live in is a lot less than 85%. Lots of people renting out there, a lot more than 15%, only a guess though

I never said OWN. PAY for where they live. Renters pay indirect property tax as well.

 

[Rowdie]

Indirectly ?? WTF??

 

[guywhofishes]

Seems pretty early for cabin fever this season.

 

[deleted member]

@Rowdie, the landlord passes on the cost of property taxes to the renter. they certainly don't just eat it.

 

[Zogman]

Seems pretty early for cabin fever this season.

So are you about 1000 miles south of the Metro?

 

[Rowdie]

@Rowdie, the landlord passes on the cost of property taxes to the renter. they certainly don't just eat it.

You could argue that about any tax or expense of any business.

 

[Rowdie]

By that argument you're saying if property taxes are eliminated, everyone's rent would go down as landlords will pass on their savings to renters who are just paying it for them anyway.

GTFOH!!

 

[SupressYourself]

It should, but in that hypothetical scenario, it probably wouldn't, because: greed.

The point was that there is property tax being paid on the property that renters live on. They don't get a bill for it, but you can bet your ass they're helping to pay for it. It's part of the rent. If property tax goes up, you better believe that rent is going up.

 

[BDub]

Rents go down? Not a chance.

 

[guywhofishes]

So are you about 1000 miles south of the Metro?

Hint: currently -11F at my location

 

[wjschmaltz]

By that argument you're saying if property taxes are eliminated, everyone's rent would go down as landlords will pass on their savings to renters who are just paying it for them anyway.

GTFOH!!

To be fair, I don't think he said that. He said renters are paying for property tax, which is true. That's the left vs. right augment on corporate taxes. The left thinks you can magically raise taxes and the company pays it and is fine with having lower profits. The right understands the tax will be passed down to us. As a company's inputs go up, so do their prices. Real Estate is not exempt. And we all know that across the board as inputs go down, prices will not follow. I'm under no illusion that the cost of my groceries will go down when or if fuel/inflation goes back down. Trump gave (or said to have given) corporate tax cuts. Anyone notice prices being lowered to reflect that? I sure didn't. And such is their right.

I look at buying rental real estate often. When I'm calculating what the potential profits will be, I calculate in taxes as well. It would be foolish not to. If the landlords mill rate goes up and the number no longer work, rent simply has to follow.

 

[Rowdie]

You're right, I think we all know that property taxes are an expense that businesses pay and indirectly pass on. Lets just keep it simple as to who ACTAULLY PAYS THE TAX. And if they were eliminated, we know rents wouldn't come down, AND taxes would GO UP IN OTHER WAYS to account for it!

So by the argument at hand, renters are all ready paying the landlords tax indirectly, and still would be if eliminated (only more profit for landlord), and then they would pay it again by having new and higher taxes other ways as in income and sales tax increases. Seems like the landlords would be making more and the average joe renter would be paying event more "Indirectly"

 

[Colt45]

My retirement plan is to sell my house and get a nice place to rent, and then not pay rent. They cant kick you out anymore as far as I know and from what I have read, so I will be living rent and property tax free! Go woke and go broke don't work for rent!

 

[woodduck30]

You're right, I think we all know that property taxes are an expense that businesses pay and indirectly pass on. Lets just keep it simple as to who ACTAULLY PAYS THE TAX. And if they were eliminated, we know rents wouldn't come down, AND taxes would GO UP IN OTHER WAYS to account for it!

So by the argument at hand, renters are all ready paying the landlords tax indirectly, and still would be if eliminated (only more profit for landlord), and then they would pay it again by having new and higher taxes other ways as in income and sales tax increases. Seems like the landlords would be making more and the average joe renter would be paying event more "Indirectly"

Property tax eliminated=Buying a property is more affordable
More Buying=Less renting
More supply of rental units=less rent costs

Now this won't happen in all locations obviously. But if buying a home is just as affordable as renting (or close to it), then of course more people will buy. Which the government is preventing by holding people back with property taxes. If more people buy homes, there will be more rental units available. You can be damn sure instead of charging $1400 and not getting it, they will settle for $1,100 rather than sitting empty. Many apartment complexes base their rent off of occupancy and it changes weekly if not daily.

 

[Rowdie]

I still say, let's just keep it simple......either you own property and pay taxes on it or you don't.

 

[woodduck30]

I still say, let's just keep it simple......either you own property and pay taxes on it or you don't.

I can respect your point of view. But I would also argue it would be simpler just not to have anyone pay that tax. It would shrink our government.