Protecting Schools

[shorthairsrus]

you guys have to be $hitting me ---- you didnt have a student in your classroom that went after a teacher or where the teacher grabs them to take them out of class and they fight back same with the principal. I dont believe it. So even if it didnt go on at your schools then - ask you children now. If you dont have children highschool age i dont think you can participate in the discussion. Its happens ---youtube it probably a million videos --- these kids have no respect bad apples.

THAT IS WHERE THE ISSUE IS RESPONSIBILITY ------- you kick em out immediately ---they can come back with a 15000megavolt dogtra on their neck and the teacher holds the control --actually imo your out - one loser move you hit the streets i dont care what age you are -- if your parents want to save your ass you let em pay your tuition back to the school 15k annually for most nd public schools. .

Its time to get to the problem --- not try to boomer lets make us all feel good fix that wont work. Reducing clips or security will not suffice -- hit the problem right away and eliminate it.

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After the Florida shooting there was a video on the news of the "active shooter" drill and classroom response. The students tipped the desks on their side, huddled in a group in the corner and held text books up in front of their heads.

As a last resort along with armed guards, I would prefer a TRAINED teacher even with a .380 over Shakespeare's Tale of Two Cities between my child and a shooter.

Why not have your kid carry --- better solution.

 

[Kurtr]

you guys have to be $hitting me ---- you didnt have a student in your classroom that went after a teacher or where the teacher grabs them to take them out of class and they fight back same with the principal. I dont believe it. So even if it didnt go on at your schools then - ask you children now. If you dont have children highschool age i dont think you can participate in the discussion. Its happens ---youtube it probably a million videos --- these kids have no respect bad apples.

THAT IS WHERE THE ISSUE IS RESPONSIBILITY ------- you kick em out immediately ---they can come back with a 15000megavolt dogtra on their neck and the teacher holds the control --actually imo your out - one loser move you hit the streets i dont care what age you are -- if your parents want to save your ass you let em pay your tuition back to the school 15k annually for most nd public schools. .

Its time to get to the problem --- not try to boomer lets make us all feel good fix that wont work. Reducing clips or security will not suffice -- hit the problem right away and eliminate it.

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Why not have your kid carry --- better solution.

Nope... graduated with 400 in my class in Watertown,SD never had a kid go after a teacher. My brother graduated 5 years later and he doesn't remember it happening in his class. My kid is 12 just asked him and he doesn't know of anyone. I knew if I ever did that my dad would have beat my ass up and down the block

 

[Lapper]

I will not pretend to know what the answer is but I can tell you this, it is NOT to allow teachers to have guns at school. I have been teaching for twenty years and teachers are not saints. I have witness many teachers “losing it” at school on staff and students. I have watched outbursts and crying and twice I have witnessed a teacher escorted out of the building by administrators during the school day! Do you really want a teacher who is suicidal or has mental issues hidden under the surface to have a gun at school?!! We need to fix this problem so teachers can just be teachers!!!!!

that is what a teacher friend of mine had to say and honestly not something I had thought a lot about. I think we put teachers up on pedestals kind f like we do preachers and pretend they don’t have real world problems like the rest of us. I don’t think concealed carry for teachers is the answer but more a weapon that is accessible through a safe or similar mechanism that can’t just be grabbed in the heat of the moment. Definitely not an easy solution.

 

[gst]

Why not have your kid carry --- better solution.

I would trust my kid carrying before I would SOME teachers. The idea is have a fire arm in the classroom in a secure lock box which technology only allows a trained teacher access to.

I would imagine you can dream up situations were even that will not stop someone but it is a hell of a lot better than hiding behind a fricking book.

The video showed 25 kids (seniors) in a classroom and all of them hiding behind a book.......waiting to be a victim.

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I will not pretend to know what the answer is but I can tell you this, it is NOT to allow teachers to have guns at school. I have been teaching for twenty years and teachers are not saints. I have witness many teachers “losing it” at school on staff and students. I have watched outbursts and crying and twice I have witnessed a teacher escorted out of the building by administrators during the school day! Do you really want a teacher who is suicidal or has mental issues hidden under the surface to have a gun at school?!! We need to fix this problem so teachers can just be teachers!!!!!

that is what a teacher friend of mine had to say and honestly not something I had thought a lot about. I think we put teachers up on pedestals kind f like we do preachers and pretend they don’t have real world problems like the rest of us. I don’t think concealed carry for teachers is the answer but more a weapon that is accessible through a safe or similar mechanism that can’t just be grabbed in the heat of the moment. Definitely not an easy solution.

We have the same issues with those that come once the alarm has been sent ie LE.

I am curious as to what you think would "fix" this problem?

One pretty common thread with mass shooters is the lack of an involved strong male father figure in their lives. Who in the media is pointing out that actual fact? Who will stand up and admit this two moms/two daddys is impacting our youth along with other things mentioned like a disregard for life from more and more realistic video games and societal choices?

If the left actually wanted a solution these issues would be FAR in front of magazines and AR's .

 

[KDM]

My two cents on this issue are these. Teachers have enough to deal with IMO. From what I've seen, these "Resource Officers" are woefully inept at doing what they are supposed to do, which is protect the students. A resource officer is NOT there to be a friend to the students. They are NOT there to "Promote" good relations with law enforcement. They are NOT there to "Liaison" with parents about discipline problems. They are there to take down threats to the students. Teachers are trained to help students in any way possible. They are NOT trained to put two in the chest and one in the head regardless of who is the aggressor. What is needed, IMO, is a properly trained, motivated, and disciplined individual that completely understands their role. They are there to PROTECT THE STUDENTS from threats of physical harm. It doesn't matter if it's a "Rape Gang" in the boys locker room, a fight in the hallway, or an active shooter in the lunch room. They are there to deal with it and protect the students and will have the means, training, and ability to do just that. Is it perfect......No. Will there be problems....Absolutely. However, it is the element of surprise, the unknown, the possibility of getting killed, caught, or otherwise stopped BEFORE completing their insanity that keeps many evil people in check and the randomness of a roving and effective resource officer goes a long way to putting this doubt in an evil persons mind.

 

[gst]

So if the Athletic director at the Florida school who I beleive was a CCW holder had the training and access to a fire arm, could he have stopped and prevented more deaths instead of dying while shielding students with his body?

Why not have a multiple pronged approach? Teachers remain in a classroom armed and a qualified resource officer/s respond outside the classroom?

there is also now a company out of California I think whith representatives here in ND that builds a bulletproof room to house students I believe a couple schools in ND have implemented them

 

[shorthairsrus]

When I read most of your responses none deal with the issue of this kid should been dealt with long before he had a weapon. Basically your saying u want gun control if you don't deal with the true issue. Our resource officer looked me in the eyes and said all the metal doctors teachers armed etc he said next incident will be a snipe or in the parking lot the issue is the kid and parents

 

[Redneck1]

In addition to a buzzer to enter the school, it might be time to consider shock collars for unruly children so they can be buzzed when they step out of line. This would be more effective than "zombie" medication.

 

[KDM]

So if the Athletic director at the Florida school who I beleive was a CCW holder had the training and access to a fire arm, could he have stopped and prevented more deaths instead of dying while shielding students with his body?

Why not have a multiple pronged approach? Teachers remain in a classroom armed and a qualified resource officer/s respond outside the classroom?

there is also now a company out of California I think whith representatives here in ND that builds a bulletproof room to house students I believe a couple schools in ND have implemented them

The more folks there are protecting the kids the better IMO. The teachers, if they want, can be armed and seal up the classroom until LE arrives to get them out while the resource officer engages the threat outside the classroom. I can get behind that. As far as dealing with the kid beforehand by parents, I think we all know that's where it REALLY needs to start, but I think we also all know evil people will do evil things no matter what and many of these people unfortunately come from good homes with loving and caring parents. They are, for whatever reason, evil. It's these types of people that concern me the most. No law, statute, or code will stop these types of people from getting whatever tools and equipment they want to commit these atrocities. Gun control legislation is a JOKE that has no ability to prevent any type of crime whatsoever or keep anybody safer from harm.

 

[gst]

When I read most of your responses none deal with the issue of this kid should been dealt with long before he had a weapon. Basically your saying u want gun control if you don't deal with the true issue. Our resource officer looked me in the eyes and said all the metal doctors teachers armed etc he said next incident will be a snipe or in the parking lot the issue is the kid and parents

There have been a few responses that hve spoken to core issues as the causes of many if not most of these shootings without any call for gun control.

Solving those causes to me makes more sense than putting a shock collar on a kid.

Yes hold kids/parents accountable for their actions, but admit what many times is causing these kids to get there and address it and maybe the school doesn;t have to buy so many dog collars.

 

[Kurtr]

My two cents on this issue are these. Teachers have enough to deal with IMO. From what I've seen, these "Resource Officers" are woefully inept at doing what they are supposed to do, which is protect the students. A resource officer is NOT there to be a friend to the students. They are NOT there to "Promote" good relations with law enforcement. They are NOT there to "Liaison" with parents about discipline problems. They are there to take down threats to the students. Teachers are trained to help students in any way possible. They are NOT trained to put two in the chest and one in the head regardless of who is the aggressor. What is needed, IMO, is a properly trained, motivated, and disciplined individual that completely understands their role. They are there to PROTECT THE STUDENTS from threats of physical harm. It doesn't matter if it's a "Rape Gang" in the boys locker room, a fight in the hallway, or an active shooter in the lunch room. They are there to deal with it and protect the students and will have the means, training, and ability to do just that. Is it perfect......No. Will there be problems....Absolutely. However, it is the element of surprise, the unknown, the possibility of getting killed, caught, or otherwise stopped BEFORE completing their insanity that keeps many evil people in check and the randomness of a roving and effective resource officer goes a long way to putting this doubt in an evil persons mind.

I agree with you but the I don't know what to call it so the rules of engagement are not in a resource officers favor. Which is to bad. If two boys are fighting he should be able to pin ball them up against a locker if they don't stop when he says. But we all know it would end up on CBS as brutality. We as a society can't get out of our own way trying to be so pc will be the down fall uless something changes. If a teacher gets the training having a ccw and locking the class room down waiting for proper leo comes is another thing that could help.

 

[Chas'n Tail]

Mental health is the true underlying issue, I think we can all agree on that, but at the same time that’s long term. I think it’s a thing that should be started on a large scale immediately, but that doesn’t fix it by tomorrow. I hope we can live in this world one day where that can be the discussion for the next immediate step. Unfortunately I think we need to start by being more proactive with what we can do to in the immediate future. That’s why I’ve been spending a lot of time researching what can be implementing in a school for an immediate effect. And there are a lot of good ideas out there and some that have been implemented with much success. The problem is the coin it takes to make that happen. That’s why I would like to see a discussion at a state and national level where a bank of money can be set up in the Dept of Education purely for school safety. I think we are at the point where that discussion needs to be taken seriously and look at possibly shifting some funding around so schools large and small have access to upgrades.

 

[eyexer]

In these city and urban areas how is it that people are still free to enter these schools without being having to be let in. Doors should be locked from outside entrance. And either a pass card or being buzzed in by office staff being the only way in.

 

[shorthairsrus]

Eye we have 1500 plus kids. They all want to go home when buzzer rings; we have how many in sports. Band projects. Some get out early. Our school has a single file line through the office during school hours u have to be admitted. However when the school opens or closes the main doors are open. Our resource officer says secure it and the next on will be a bus or a parking lot. The only way to prevent is to remove the rights of the crazy one.

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U could fit a bunch of ammo gun in a band case

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Never had a student go after a teacher in our school.
Have to secure the schools but with all these feel good people how is one going to make it work?
shorthairs said once school is secured it will happen on buses or parking lot. I agree but you must stop it somewhere first. Just like a fire you can take the underbrush away and clean up the forest but a fire can still be started and burn. You just have to try a make it less likely to happen.
I certainly don't have all the answers but like i said before it starts at home with parenting! Yes you can have 2 good parents that teach their child the right and wrong and he still can go off the deep end. But it would be less likely to happen. We know a couple kids who are in their early grade school years and we have both commented how one day these kids are going to snap. Hope it doesn't happen but i won't be surprised at all if it does. Of course their parents are too busy to deal with their kids and also their kids do "nothing" wrong ever.
Heck back in the day if we did or if they even thought we did something wrong the Supt or principal would have you up against the wall and when you got home you got it twice as bad. Nowadays not so much as my little Johnny wouldn't do that!
Just my 2 cents.

 

[walleyeman_1875]

As with most things, there's never a silver bullet that will solve all the problems.

First and foremost, we need to quit building these fancy architectural masterpieces for our schools with designer brick/floor, vaulted cathedral ceilings, etc........ This will help free up funding to start addressing the problem.

1. Metal detectors should become a standard.
2. Police presence is at the top of the list.

 

[eyexer]

Eye we have 1500 plus kids. They all want to go home when buzzer rings; we have how many in sports. Band projects. Some get out early. Our school has a single file line through the office during school hours u have to be admitted. However when the school opens or closes the main doors are open. Our resource officer says secure it and the next on will be a bus or a parking lot. The only way to prevent is to remove the rights of the crazy one.

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U could fit a bunch of ammo gun in a band case

it's one step in the process of securing schools. many business's have this in place. You have the doors open for an hour leading up to school starting. Once school starts doors lock. Anybody late they have to be buzzed in. When school is over doors open. You control the things you can and do your best to deal with the things you can't. You can control access to the school. At the very least you have one open entrance that is controlled with human security. Staff will have pass cards and can enter as needed. Just like hotels use.

 

[BrokenBackJack]

As with most things, there's never a silver bullet that will solve all the problems.

First and foremost, we need to quit building these fancy architectural masterpieces for our schools with designer brick/floor, vaulted cathedral ceilings, etc........ This will help free up funding to start addressing the problem.

1. Metal detectors should become a standard.
2. Police presence is at the top of the list.

We went to school in a plain old square brick building. We learned and our taxes weren't out of this world to pay for the building. Nowadays you have to have these huge fancy assed buildings as if the fancy building will help the kids learn. To get the idea to pass to build these buildings they come with, "it's for the kids". To try to make people feel guilty and vote yes to get the tax money to build.
20 million dollar schools are NOT going to make the kids learn or make them better than a plain square 2 million dollar school building.
This keep up with the Jones' attitude killed many a farmer and also just plain people that are trying to keep up with their neighbors. Now they are doing the same things with school buildings.
Sorry this is off the subject, will shut up!

 

[zoops]

Personally I am not a fan of arming the teachers, and I'm a teacher. We have many responsibilities in the classroom and I don't think armed security should be one of them although I think I could handle it. One slip-up from some teacher somewhere in the country where a shot is fired on someone that the media doesn't consider an immediate threat and the whole thing would be a cluster. Heck look at what happens even when cops shoot people even in the clearly justifiable cases. Not a responsibility teachers should have, just as coaches shouldn't have to worry about being the security guard at the state tournament, ticket takers shouldn't at a movie theater, bank tellers shouldn't at a bank, etc. School shootings are still very rare and I don't know if turning schools into militarized zones is necessary. I think monitored entrances and better mental health treatment are better options; I can think of many kids over the years that I could see snapping and there's little you can do to help them; especially when the parents are either absent or not supportive.

For the discussion on students snapping on teachers; it happens all the time even in ND. A lot of it is emotional disturbed types that have anger outbursts and end up hitting teachers. This was one of the sticking points with many contract negotiations last summer in school districts in ND - that there's no support for teachers in these cases. You know you need to have special training in order to "restrain" a kid, even if they are attacking you in many cases? Most teachers I talk to would be hesitant to hold a kid back even if they were threatening or attacking someone because of possible repercussions. We can't have it both ways as a society.

 

[Browneye]

One thing that worries Me about all the talk about the focus on the mental illness aspect of all these mass shootings. Yes obvious mentally ill people shouldnt have guns but does that mean anyone on anti depression meds has to give up all there guns? I worry a little bit about the attitude that seems to be talked about now where neighbors tipping off the police about their "crazy" neighbor that has thousands of rounds of ammunition in there house gets all their guns pulled. Am i the only one who sees there could be a huge problem where a few liberal gun hating mental health doctors could cause alot of problems?