The Great Escape

[Fritz the Cat]

PG said,

So how many people in our legislature do you think are qualified to make wildlife management decisions. I would expect they all think they are, but reality is absolutely zero are.​

Our legislators are representative government. They listen to their constituency. That would be all citizens of North Dakota. We the people hire the Game and Fish to perform a service. If a Bill comes up and the legislature needs some clarification or advice they can and do ask Game and Fish to testify.

I believe you just said our representatives and we the people are not qualified and therefore should make zero wildlife management decisions.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I believe you just said our representatives and we the people are not qualified and therefore should make zero wildlife management decisions.

You have a comprehension problem. If they ask qualified people for advise and actually listen I have no problem. You stated that the legislators should manage wildlife unless I missed something. I think politicians of all stripes are liars to begin with and money is the main thing for liberals and conservatives. Well maybe a roll in the hay with the same sex is more on the agenda for liberals. Very few want to serve the people they are in it for power. They have forgotten they are servants and think they are rulers.

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PG, are you avoiding the question or can you not see red? Fritz asked you the same question at least 3 times, in red, and you have dodged it each time.

He never asked me a question.

when are you most civilized elitists planning to shut down shooting preserves raising pen raised birds for sport? The second platform of the NAMWC manifesto commands you to do it. ​

See he was addressing some elitist. Some question about some manifesto. Then going on about East Germany. Trying to make a communist connection I suppose. I only thought dishonest liberals behaved in such fashion. You know building something that really isn't there.

 

[JMF]

PG, what im getting from you so far is a person is qualified to give advice as long as they agree with you and your ideas as to what is right?

Since you deny being a civilized elitist, i will ask you simply, what are your thoughts on shooting preserves shooting pen raised birds?

 

[PrairieGhost]

JMF I guess I have not thought much about birds. Bison would stand in herds of thousands and let you shoot all day, so not much different than a canned hunt.

I think a person is qualified for advise in wildlife management, nutrition, disease, etc if they have a background in those fields that lets them address any problem intelligently with raw unmulipulated data that supports his or her opinion. I believe that eliminates bias from either side lifting it's ugly head.

Also it would appear that Kurt remembers the response I have given many times, so it's not like he can actually predict as he wants you to think. That response was I don't much give a crap about non natives unless they carry disease harmful to native species. Time after time we see disaster by moving species from one continent to another. Sometimes we see success so high that they only exist here and have gone extinct in their home country where people put more value on a dollar than sustained wildlife populations. We here often put the dollar first sacrificing our integrity in the process.

 

[JMF]

Stop bringing up the damn buffalo, nobody living today partook in the buffalo slaughters of the past. Now i agree shooting an animal inside an inclosure is not hunting, however unlike you I dont believe it should be outlawed. If somebody wants to raise elk, deer, pheasants or zebras and is following the law set forth by we the people then they should have the right to do so. If some dolt wants to pay them to come shoot one, more power to them. It seems as though you believe you are smarter than the rest of us and think we need to be saved from ourselves.

 

[PrairieGhost]

The only reason I bring up bison is their behavior makes things different.
I think captive shooting gives hunters a black eye because non hunters don't separate us from them. So many people say they wouldn't do it, but they condone it. These same people will ask what's happening to society. Well look in the mirror. Its this tolerance on steroids that gets us drugs, abused women, kids growing up with an anything goes attitude. This doesn't separate anything but hunters from non sportsmen, and it doesn't separate farmers from true sportsmen. If a guy shoots a captive animal they are the same type that would poach any way possible.

 

[JMF]

The only reason I bring up bison is their behavior makes things different.
I think captive shooting gives hunters a black eye because non hunters don't separate us from them. So many people say they wouldn't do it, but they condone it. These same people will ask what's happening to society. Well look in the mirror. Its this tolerance on steroids that gets us drugs, abused women, kids growing up with an anything goes attitude. This doesn't separate anything but hunters from non sportsmen, and it doesn't separate farmers from true sportsmen. If a guy shoots a captive animal they are the same type that would poach any way possible.

And its people like you fueling this opinion. Most of the non hunting public wouldnt have an opinion or care either way if you didnt make a public outcry against it. Ive seen you partner up with the HSUS in the past, say you guys win and its outlawed. Do you think they will be happy then and leave us alone? If so you are denser than i thought.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Ive seen you partner up with the HSUS in the past

Not me you haven't. I also think it was stupid of the people who did do it. Sort of a suicide move I think. Dumb. As for no one would notice we are under a magnifying glass all the time by the anti hunting crowd. To think different is to simply whistle your way through the cemetery. Sportsmen stepped up and asked to implement laws many years ago. What's happened to todays sportsmen? Where is our integrity? Even sailors of old had enough sense to throw the heavy worthless things overboard when the ship was going down.
If high fence survives even with the dangers of disease and the distaste of the practice fine, but don't make real sportsmen complicit by asking them for support. All the while high fence operators work against free lance hunters. They hate that guy in Montana that promotes hunting public land. They hate public land because you don't have to pay them to hunt it.

This has been hashed over for what eight years and some people just can't give it up. As far as I am concerned it's over until someone outright makes untrue accusations.

 

[Kurtr]

Like you

 

[gst]

When it comes to education there are two types of fools. There are the fools with an education that think people without an education are not intelligent, then the second kind of fool thinks people with an education have no common sense. Fritz your the second kind of fool. Raising elk like cows in a pen isn't the same as managing elk in the wild. People have to know habitat requirements and nutrition of available foods. You perhaps know the nutritional value of many of your grasses. The vitamins and minerals of each species in different habitats would be analyzed in a laboratory. Do you really think a rancher or farmer run that laboratory or a half dozen Phd's with expertise in different fields? Likely a Phd botanist, a phd chemist, a phd nutritionist. We had a fellow on here talking about a Montana rancher who developed a grazing system. That was the biggest bunch of bs I have ever heard. When I get on my phone I will give you the publication by the "scientist" who did develop the grazing system. So how many people in our legislature do you think are qualified to make wildlife management decisions. I would expect they all think they are, but reality is absolutely zero are.

By the way don't try make it look as if I believe in climate change. This guy simply did a lot of research on grazing. His name is Allen Savory. I'll type it here since I can't get it to transfer from my phone.

www.ted.com/talks/allan/_savoryhow_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change/up-next?language=eng.

I have not read this for years, but I'll take a chance that it's pertinent to the grazing system that the Montana rancher supposedly started.

Next Fritz you will tell us to forget our doctor and have a legislator do our surgeries.

plains, if you are going to talk about me at least reference me by name, otherwise it comes off as rather childish.

there are a number of different grazing systems that have been "developed" over the years. They all have a similar goals and results but some have very different methods. I have shared several over the years with you including Savory's to show perhaps you do not know as much as you wish others to believe when it comes to grass management and ranching.

The fella in Mt was Frank Sparks he in fact did develop his own form of system that was similar in ways to Savorys. His system as he explained it to those of us at the conference we were at was patterned after the buffalo you like to mentions impact on soils and plants as herds of hundreds of thousands moved across the lands.

By the time the trailing animals got to what had been previouysly grazed, the good grasses had been eaten and the forbes and bushes not first [picked were all that was left to be consumed. He mimiced that by forcing cattle to adapt to consuming those same plants as a way to recreate the end result.

Similar to Savorys whom he had never met or read, but still different in some regards.

https://books.google.com/books?id=-...H#v=onepage&q=Frank sparks mt rancher&f=false


Perhaps you should just stick to talking about raising koi fish in captivity.

You do raise koi fish in captivity don't you?

 

[Davey Crockett]

plains
Perhaps you should just stick to talking about raising koi fish in captivity.

You do raise koi fish in captivity don't you?

He raises them for profit if I am not mistaken , No idea about his sales but I distinctly remember a post where was bragging about how much the are worth.

On the other hand, if a small family farm is so small that it can no longer cash flow so the owners practice wildlife conservation and guide one hunt a year to pay the property taxes then the sky is falling.

 

[Stan's Dad]

Stop bringing up the damn buffalo, nobody living today partook in the buffalo slaughters of the past. Now i agree shooting an animal inside an inclosure is not hunting, however unlike you I dont believe it should be outlawed. If somebody wants to raise elk, deer, pheasants or zebras and is following the law set forth by we the people then they should have the right to do so. If some dolt wants to pay them to come shoot one, more power to them. It seems as though you believe you are smarter than the rest of us and think we need to be saved from ourselves.

i wish I could give you more than one thumbs up

 

[PrairieGhost]

He raises them for profit if I am not mistaken , No idea about his sales but I distinctly remember a post where was bragging about how much the are worth.

On the other hand, if a small family farm is so small that it can no longer cash flow so the owners practice wildlife conservation and guide one hunt a year to pay the property taxes then the sky is falling.

Actually I mentioned what they were worth because a contractor at our house left water running in the pond and killed them all
Of course I should have been there, but my oldest son was very sick. That's not an exaggeration either he passed away in March.

I don't mind a person guiding. What I do mind ate those who work against public access and want federal land turned over to the states. I don't like the outfitters trying to destroy freelance. That's why they all hate Randy Newbury. Ask them what they think of Randy Newbury and you will know what their agenda is.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Actually I mentioned what they were worth because a contractor at our house left water running in the pond and killed them all
Of course I should have been there, but my oldest son was very sick. That's not an exaggeration either he passed away in March.

I don't mind a person guiding. What I do mind ate those who work against public access and want federal land turned over to the states. I don't like the outfitters trying to destroy freelance. That's why they all hate Randy Newbury. Ask them what they think of Randy Newbury and you will know what their agenda is.

First time I've noticed you say that , You have been painting all guides and outfitters with a broad brush poking and jabbing every chance you get.

 

[Kurtr]

Who is Randy Newbury? All guides hate him? What about the ones that help him?

 

[PrairieGhost]

First time I've noticed you say that , You have been painting all guides and outfitters with a broad brush poking and jabbing every chance you get.

I sure can't fault a guy that stays on his own land. That picture a couple years ago of the guy who dumped 300 bushels of corn for bait, I might not like him. Some guides lease up thousands of acres. Some of them let duck hunters in if they are not hunting it. Some of them will not let anyone hunt even if they never intend to hunt it. Its hard to k ow who is who without meeting them. Then there are those that not only the up Land, but get politically active to transfer public land, and the reason is most want more control over it. Freelance hunting cuts into their ability to hold hunting hostage. That's my complaint.
You may have never heard that on here, but I have said it many times on other sites. Of course my opinion has evolved some also, and perhaps today I am a little more accepting of the small operations that are not out to only make money and take opportunity from others.

 

[gst]

Holy, HFH, Guding, baiting, NR waterfowl hunters For a minute there I thought I had traveled back in time and logged onto Nodak Outdoors.

Carry on.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Svnmag said :









Good 1-7 :;:thumbsup

 

[Kurtr]

Kansas rocks. I always think of driving around with my dad in the old Chevy when I hear that song

 

[Fritz the Cat]

First time I've noticed you say that , You have been painting all guides and outfitters with a broad brush poking and jabbing every chance you get.

PG has consistently been opposed to any guiding because it is the commercialization of wildlife. Part of the NAMWC:

Current Status, Threats, and Challenges.— Commercial trade for reptiles, amphibians, and fish is thriving (Nanjappa and Conrad 2011). In addition, some game species that we would expect to fall under the principles of the Model are actively traded. Deer (Odocoileus spp.), elk, ring-necked pheasants (Phasianus colchicus), quail, chukar (Alectoris chukar), and more exotic wildlife species are commonly bought and sold (Freese and Trauger 2000). Related to wildlife markets are contests and tournaments common in rural areas of the country. Big buck contests, coyote hunts, crow (Corvus spp.) hunts, and numerous other commercial contests imply a market-based hunting situation. The sale of furbearers, seal (Phocidae) fur, antlers, reproduced antlers, and a variety of other wildlife parts needs to be considered in light of the principle that markets for wildlife are eliminated. A robust market for access to wildlife occurring across the U.S. and Canada exists in the form of leases, reserved permits, and shooting preserves.

Markets for Game are Eliminated. And that includes private property on private property. No guiding.

In 2005 PG attended the wildlife society meeting where Geist talked about his North American "Model" of Wildlife Conservation and two fellows were brought up from South Dakota Game and Fish who were very opposed to bird shooting preserves. This "Model" isn't about our history or success in the last one hundred years. It's about eliminating markets for todays farmed game. Of course they blur straight lines by talking about banning shooting one hundred buffalo per day or banning spotlighting and then make this giant leap to eliminate markets for shooting preserves on an animal/bird that is privately owned.

That is why I keep asking PG when are his people planning to take away "hunting" a bird on a shooting preserve? I'll answer it, not in the near future because they have taken on enough unpopular shit in the last couple years.

PG was a sponsor of the fair chase folly back in 2008. They sought to take away a market or eliminate high fence hunting. They lost three times. The people have spoken.

For the sake of argument let's say they had won. Would they be satisfied, placated, done? It passed in Montana back in 2000. How's that working? Recently Arby's did a venison steak sandwich. The Montana Wildlife Federation showed its true colors sending a letter to Arby's admonishing them to discontinue it because it may make elk farms profitable. Christ, they would even deny them a meat market. Never mind that the meat came from New Zealand red deer.

These debates aren't about ethics or disease. It's about eliminating markets or avenues to markets there-by strangling an industry or several non-traditional livestock industries. And then using government enforcement against private property.

This shit is so un-American.


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