The "NEW" SB 2315 - Pucker Up Buttercup!

[Brian Renville]

And what’s even better is that they think they have no reason to keep sportsmen happy. You alienate that group and you will lose one of the biggest supporters of their tax breaks, programs and exemptions that the rest of us non landowners and non farm business people don’t receive. Rural communities are getting smaller and smaller with less and less support for rural issues. Why do they get everything they want, but the rest of us just need to step aside and be ok with it? They are given a government backed guaranteed business for God’s sake.

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Yep there’s definitely some repercussions here if voters want to exercise them.

 

[Dirty]

I've sent my emails. Didn't get much for replies although I wouldn't expect to get many. That doesn't mean they weren't read. This is only one of about 1,000 bills it seems. The media seems to put a positive spin on this when given the chance. I do have a feeling that has a decent chance of getting through the senate but I hope I'm wrong. Regardless of what happens this year, the change is coming and probably in the near future. Each round garners a little more support for the change.

If you really value your time in the field and want your kids and grandkids to have some too, I wouldn't waste any more time not doing whatever you can to develope some really strong relationships with every landowner that is willing. Before too long that is going to be all you have to fall back on...and even those gems don't last forever. I just lost a place I turkey hunted for the past decade because the owners got too old to manage things and sold the property and are moving to another state to be with their grown children. They were great friends also, but it happens (to all of us).

Don't take whatever access you have for granted and definitely don't wait to just fight this battle every two years or eventually you will be sorely disappointed.

 

[Duckslayer100]

I'm with ya Dirty. Even if we do win this battle somehow, I won't hold my breath long term. The writing has been on the wall for years. It feels inevitable. Which is a crying shame.

 

[ndlongshot]

Doesnt have to be. We can find a workable solution to this. How about game and fish and hunters foot the bill for permanent no hunting trespassing or hunting signs and do all the installation, and upkeep when land changes hands. We already do it for plots. Wouldnt be that big of an undertaking.

 

[guywhofishes]

It won't be close - too many urban voters who have been kept informed... and motivated.

I'm with Duckslayer. There will be successful ways to circumvent the urban voter's will down the road. Ask me how I know.

 

[ndlongshot]

On Stockmans facebook they are pushing hard, and even their own members are calling them out. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

 

[fireone]

It is a tiny % of people pushing for no trespass. But they have well funded organizations and the sportsmen have neither because they don't organize. Too independent, too apathetic. If you want something done in the legislature you have to show up. Every year that goes by there are fewer ag producers and more urban citizens. Getting the laws you want isn't difficult, it's just muscle politics.

 

[fly2cast]

Not sure if this has been brought up because I didn't read 13 pages of posts.

One of the things that really scares me the most of doing the database is that it will pretty much set the conditions to make all land posted within the next 5 years. It will be easy to find land that isn't posted with this app and hunters will drive from one unposted plot of land to the next. As more hunters target the open pieces of land, the land owners will be more willing to post it because of the increased traffic, especially because of the ease of doing so. As fewer pieces of land are unposted, there will be more pressure on that land and the land owner will post. So the less unposted land there is, the faster it will get posted. This is exactly what has happened in many areas that I have hunted.

 

[eyexer]

If this gets defeated we have to get a measure before voters to put an end to this shit

 

[Coldfront]

Honorable Senators of North Dakota

As part owner of the family farm and a wife of a very avid hunter I would like to thank you for the passage of SB2315.The passage of this bill is going to save us so much money in the future. Italso looks like for once we will be spending more money on trips which I like.My husband says that between this year and next year we will be going toCalifornia, North and South Carolina, Colorado, Florida, Arizona, Wisconsin,Missouri, Texas, New Mexico and Nevada. Along the way he said we will be makinga few stops to talk to a few people that have land in ND. I asked him what for?He told me to hunt on their land. I asked him why he doesn’t call them he saidthat he has no phone numbers just addresses, at least I will get to leave thestate. Maybe we will even find a place to move too. He said that if this billpasses that he might sell his guns and quit hunting. Amen! More money saved,this past year he spent over two thousand dollars on gas and motel rooms just forhunting. Can you believe that! I think if you passed a law requiring like a$200.00 annual docking fee for unloading the boat it would be the last strawand he would sell that also. (Now if I could only find a way to get him to getrid of the Side by Side and snowmobiles) I would have it made. Just think ofall the extra money I would have available to spend, maybe I could even buy a 2carat diamond ring! He had to buy another new pickup this year. He had over85,000 miles on a 2015 F150 going hunting and fishing. Can you believe that myhusband spent $65000.00 for the new pickup and last year he bought a new boatand paid $71,000. Look at just the tax money he could have saved, that along couldhave bought the ring! Just think, if he sells his guns, boat and pickup (hewon’t need a big pickup he could by with a Focus because it would be just himand the dog (paid over $6000.00 for the dog and training it) using it. We couldmove out of this godforsaken place and where it is warm like the otherlandowners have done. His hunting partner raises (which he helps sometimes)1000 pheasants a year. They keep 350 hens over the winter to let them go in thespring as adults, this is really good he says when there is a bad winter whichit looks like it will be this year. He said no more they are done! He does have one valid point that Ioverheard. He read that it is going to cost $1,142,000.00 the biennium and$892,000.00 the second biennium just to administer to new bill. WOW! And it isgoing to come out of the Game and Fish Departments budget! That means fishermanare also paying for this bill, and they didn’t think it was going to cost themanything. He said that this bill doesn’t help the Game and Fish Department inany way. He said why doesn’t the monies come from the Tourism budget or the Agbudget they are the ones who benefiting.

Another question Ihave if this bill goes into law will we be able to drop our liability insuranceon the farm land? It will automatically be posted and nobody will go on itright? Maybe we could lease the land to a Guide Service, do they then have tocarry the insurance?

JM

P.S.
Here is the bad news(never heard him talk like this before). Him and his buddies are talking aboutvoting democratic next time elections are held for our local senators. He saidthat they are not any smarter than Pelosi or Schumer. If Hedi runs for Governorhe will vote for her because at least she is not in somebody’s back pocket.Again WOW!

 

[fly2cast]

If this gets defeated we have to get a measure before voters to put an end to this shit

I was thinking the same thing

 

[ndlongshot]

If this gets defeated we have to get a measure before voters to put an end to this shit

I've heard this from alot of folks, too. Then things would get really interesting. Didnt you hear? The senate voted yesterday to give themselves final input on initiated measures. Essentially making them the final gate keepers, again. They just can't STAND that voters have an opinion or an overide so they had to go undo it. Unfreaking believable.

They push any harder and they will start flipping red to blue.

 

[njsimonson]

https://www.legis.nd.gov/contact-my-legislators - Contact the senate one last time...my final thoughts sent this morning are below:

Good Morning Senators –

Before you today sits consideration of SB 2315. In my final message to you before the vote, I have seen the previously amended version and the notes regarding Friday’s additions, and as you consider this bill, I’d encourage you to vote NO on SB 2315 for the following reasons:

1. Ultimately, the amended version does nothing to curb the perceived issue of criminal trespass, which among 140,000+ hunters dropped last year to 48 offenses. In fact, in the notes I was provided from Friday, the amended bill will allow a first offense to be treated as an infraction. Sportsmen and landowners have argued against this and have asked for steeper penalties throughout this process as a deterrent for criminals and troublemakers.

1. This version sets forth a law creating a database to be managed by a committee. It doesn’t propose it as a study, a continuing resolution or interim group, but rather sets forth an untested solution as law at the expense of the state which will certainly total in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more than a million and place the cart before the horse. While it is a good theory, in practice it will take validation, testing, fine-tuning and close management to make it successful – all things that should be vetted before it becomes the law of the land.

1. The database will also rely on physical posting in many areas, therefore not curtailing the expense and time required of landowners who want to be certain that people know to stay off - and in those counties where the GIS/ownership information is currently not available or not made public such as Ransom and at least a dozen others - the database will not serve its purpose of helping hunters identify lands and contact information for owners to contact for access.

1. While the amended version is an attempted compromise, it comes too late. The sponsors knew what they were up against, and rallied an impressive showing, however they did not have this ready and were forced to put it all together without much consideration or oversight, up against the voting and crossover deadlines before you. We cannot rush this, but I can promise you – as both a sportsman, and a person with land ownership interests – we will find a way to better solutions in the next year, if you will vote no. Place your faith in me, and the hundreds of landowner-sportsmen out there to find it together, as we have addressed many possible solutions, including:

1. Making all criminal trespass (12.1 and 20.1) at least an A-Misdemeanor (deterrence/respect);
2. Automatic forfeiture of all firearms in any trespass conviction, with auction to benefit a Posting Relief Fund (deterrence/respect);
3. Automatic 1-year loss of hunting licensure in all compact states for any violation of a criminal trespass statute in ND (deterrence/respect);
4. Creation of a Posting Relief Fund for landowners, with a $2 surcharge on all hunting and fishing licenses each year (~$1.2M/annually) where landowners can get reimbursed for expenses and time spent on the posting process (cost in time and money);
5. Creation of a jointly-drafted sportsman-landowner-G&F module for All Future Hunter’s Ed courses on land access which includes i) Identifying posted and unposted lands, ii) respecting all signage, even if old, faded or not properly placed; iii) tips on talking to landowners and building relationships; and iv) utilizing land ID guides (Google Maps, PLOTS guide, GIS, platbook, app, GPS, Trax/OnX chips, etc.) to identify boundaries of all lands. (education & prevention)

None of these are as sweeping and drastic as SB 2315, nor do they cost much money, and in fact, would generate funds which many sportsmen have stated they’d be glad to pay in order to keep public access to millions of acres of unposted land available to ND residents and visitors alike.

In the end, the emotions which have run high in this debate must be cast aside. Not all sportsmen are “entitled” because they access unposted land, just like landowners aren’t “lazy” because they don’t want to post. Those are the weakest arguments, and emotion is never a good ground for any legislation. You must look at the facts and law as it sits today, and ask yourself if a problem exists, and if this amended SB 2315 solves such a problem. I present that the answer to both questions is NO. Thank you all for your time and attention in this process, I know it has not been easy. I wish you the best in your consideration today and ask that you vote NO on SB 2315, and thank you for your public service.

Sincerely,

 

[Davey Crockett]

You have some good points njsimonson. I'm pretty sure it will pass today and head to the house for further debate and try to iron out the issues that both sides have and that should be of no shock to anyone. Please try to work together and don't blow your head gaskets if/when it does because no matter whatever happens with this can of worms in the end property owners both in town and on the farm will still have the right to restrict entry to their property. Better to work together on solutions than pick sides .

 

[ndlongshot]

You have some good points njsimonson. I'm pretty sure it will pass today and head to the house for further debate and try to iron out the issues that both sides have and that should be of no shock to anyone. Please try to work together and don't blow your head gaskets if/when it does because no matter whatever happens with this can of worms in the end property owners both in town and on the farm will still have the right to restrict entry to their property. Better to work together on solutions than pick sides .

Davey, you know as well as anyone else, this ain't the solution. Its a mess. It shouldnt be passed.

I just got an email stating that the bill is still in committee.......interesting, considering the vote is two hours away.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I know it's not the end solution , It needs an overhaul. I'm saying that there is a very good chance if it passing today if and when it does it's best to try to work together.

 

[Migrator Man]

I have not heard one reason from a legislator about why this needs to be put into law immediately before this app is created and proven to work. They can propose a working committee and funds to create the app and not move to change the law until a later session.

I have also not heard from a legislator on how older folks without smart phones are going to be able to access this app. Hunters should not have to own a smart phone to be able to hunt in ND.

This bill is a disaster that has been rushed too fast. These legislators better be careful because there will be repercussions from hunters that are much more numerous than landowners.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Last post , I won't sit and argue. I copied and pasted the important part of post # 254 that should be something we should all be able to agree with.


"no matter whatever happens with this can of worms in the end property owners both in town and on the farm will still have the right to restrict entry to their property. Better to work together on solutions than pick sides."

 

[Huntin1]

Last post , I won't sit and argue. I copied and pasted the important part of post # 254 that should be something we should all be able to agree with.


"no matter whatever happens with this can of worms in the end property owners both in town and on the farm will still have the right to restrict entry to their property. Better to work together on solutions than pick sides."

They already do, it looks like this.

 

[ndlongshot]

Agreed, Davey.

In addition, I have to buy a license to hunt/fish in ND. NOW i have to buy a smart phone too!! Gotta love barriers of entry.