The "NEW" SB 2315 - Pucker Up Buttercup!

[Obi-Wan]

Whatever you say pal. The general consensus is “it’s bullshit that we need to follow certain rules putting up signs in order to keep people off our private property, it’s private properly you should always stay off unless you are given permission”. Just what I was told. That and out here in the west a lot of guys are really tired all the crap the “newcomers” brought with, mainly go for a cruise wherever and whenever they feel like, road or not.

Wouldn't this new law also require certain rules to be followed to have the land posted? If they think putting up no hunting signs in cumbersome wait until they have to registers every section, qtr section, or misc arces of land individually and then have to update them presumably yearly.



The current law basically is giving permission when the land is not posted. If land owners do not want hunters or want to know who is on their land they convey their intentions by posting it.

As far as the crap you refer to most likely is already illegal so this new law will do nothing to prevent it.

 

[Allen]

Obi, you bring up a great point. Land ownership changes all year long. Quite a few years ago now, but I had access to hunt some premium elk land on the opening weekend of 2005. Yep, opening weekend only because it was changing hands officially on Monday to a butthead that has more money than common courtesy. How would such a situation be handled under the proposed law? Arguably, the State would need to have some deadline for submittal of land designations within the database, or is the hunter supposed to check the database each and every time mere seconds before they walk onto a parcel of land?

And then what if I bought a piece of land that was currently unposted in the database, would I HAVE to let people hunt it because it is unposted in the database until such time as it got updated? This seems like a huge Govt intrusion onto my personal property rights.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Correct me if I am wrong

if a Landowner does not want into the data base he would still have to post his land.

if the county does not participate in the data base the landowner would still have to post his land.

If the land owner does neither the data base or posting the land would be considered open to hunting


2. After a county is included in the database:

a. A hunter may not enter land in the county which is designated in the database as
closed to hunters or open to hunters upon receipt of permission unless the hunter
has permission to enter the land or otherwise is entitled to enter the land.

A hunter is guilty of a class B misdemeanor for a first violation and a class A
misdemeanor for a second and subsequent violation of this subdivision; and

b. A hunter without permission may enter land in the county which is not designated
in the database as closed to hunters or open to hunters upon receipt of
permission, unless the land is posted in accordance with section 20.1-01-17.

3. A hunter may not enter land that is posted in accordance with section 20.1-01-17
unless the hunter has permission to enter the land or otherwise is entitled to enter the
land, regardless of the designation of the land in the database. A hunter is guilty of a
class B misdemeanor for a first violation and a class A misdemeanor for a second and
subsequent violation of this subsection.

 

[guywhofishes]

you guys need to calm down

we'll find out what's in it after they pass it

 

[Uncle Jimbo]

Obi, you bring up a great point. Land ownership changes all year long. Quite a few years ago now, but I had access to hunt some premium elk land on the opening weekend of 2005. Yep, opening weekend only because it was changing hands officially on Monday to a butthead that has more money than common courtesy. How would such a situation be handled under the proposed law? Arguably, the State would need to have some deadline for submittal of land designations within the database, or is the hunter supposed to check the database each and every time mere seconds before they walk onto a parcel of land?

And then what if I bought a piece of land that was currently unposted in the database, would I HAVE to let people hunt it because it is unposted in the database until such time as it got updated? This seems like a huge Govt intrusion onto my personal property rights.

Obi amd Allen bring up good points. OnX has a disclaimer stating they aren’t 100% accurate and not liable. If SB2315 passes in current form, who holds the liability of errors within the database leading to trespassing violations and/or trophy animals harvested without permission?

 

[Brian Renville]

Wouldn't this new law also require certain rules to be followed to have the land posted? If they think putting up no hunting signs in cumbersome wait until they have to registers every section, qtr section, or misc arces of land individually and then have to update them presumably yearly.



The current law basically is giving permission when the land is not posted. If land owners do not want hunters or want to know who is on their land they convey their intentions by posting it.

As far as the crap you refer to most likely is already illegal so this new law will do nothing to prevent it.

Absolutely, I'm with you there. There's alot of things around today that make people think if they make it illegaler it will make a big difference. Like guns for instance.

 

[Holmsvc]

a lot of guys are really tired all the crap the “newcomers” brought with, mainly go for a cruise wherever and whenever they feel like, road or not.

How does this bill fix that????

 

[Dirty]

Make it like montana.. but montana has a hell of a lot more public land..I believe North Dakota has the least of all the western states.

I didn’t read past this comment yet so if this already was mentioned I apologize. I hunt in MT. Two big differences are like already mentioned Montana has a LOT of public land that can be accessed, and in Addition, landowners out there often have big parcels of land, like dozens of sections. Here in ND it’s not uncommon to find a section split among 4 different owners that may or may not live in the area or even in the state. The dynamic is just so much different between MT and ND. I don’t hunt SD much so I’m not sure how we compare to that state, but I can confidently say we will never be like Montana no matter what type of posting or trespassing laws we have. Not even close. Unfortunately, I do think Brian Renville is right. A lot of folks have that vision in mind and that’s why they aren’t opposed to this bill. That certainly isn’t the goal of this bill, but it has been disguised that way at every opportunity, which doesn’t help either.

I will tell you what doesn’t help the cause of those of us who don’t like this bill...hunters acting like we somehow have a god-given right to hunt this private land that isn’t posted. We don’t. It is someone else’s land and they are allowing us to be there when they DONT have to. I’m a hunter and landowner. I like how things are set up as a hunter and as a landowner. I hope it doesn’t change. It is a good setup that connects landowners and hunters that want to be connected. However, not every landowner wants to be connected with hunters so keeping your attitude slightly in check, as many on these threads have done very well, is of utmost importance during this process, and always for that matter. This is a sensitive subject and should be treated as such in my opinion. You can be passionate about it and civil at the same time even if the opposition is not.

I have been told posts from sites like these are cherry-picked and read at these hearings occasionally to paint a picture of the personalities and opinions of ND sportsmen. You can imagine which posts they pick to prove their point.

 

[dbllung]

Terry works for and takes his orders from the Governor of the State of North Dakota.

If ever you want the NDGF to take a stance on something, make the Governor feel the political pressure, not the NDGF Director.

You can bet Gov Burgum is in complete support of this bill, It will allow even more of his high class political buddies to come to good ole ND and take advantage of "OUR" great hunting opportunities......

 

[Brian Renville]

Agree 100%. If this turns into a pissing match between sportsmen who don't own huntable land and landowners who do at the ballot box, things could get ugly for everyone real quick.

 

[guywhofishes]

Did the "any petition takes two years and OK by lawmakers" bill get nixed?

Asking because I see an ag tax reform petition being really popular with the thousands of city slickers who are going to be majorly PISSED if this turd passes.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Good post Dirty. For a week we argued if there is a problem, We should have been working together on solutions .



OK, Insert fingers in ears and scream at me some more. ;:;badidea

 

[guywhofishes]

I have been told posts from sites like these are cherry-picked and read at these hearings occasionally to paint a picture of the personalities and opinions of ND sportsmen. You can imagine which posts they pick to prove their point.

gee... I wonder who THAT would be????

 

[Whisky]

I have been doing a lot of thinking on this issue. And up until this point have stayed out of these conversations. In fact when I saw the amended bill yesterday I fired off my first email in 10 years to the Senators asking for a no vote on this bill. While this particular bill is garbage, the next one may not be. It's my prediction that ND will eventually end up as a no trespass state.

So when that does happen I hope everybody can come together to figure out a way to keep some GOOD hunting land open to the public. We need to. This will take more PLOTS money, simple as that. I have talked to a few of my landowner friends and while they are not in favor of this specific bill, they are in favor of a no trespass bill for ND. They, like many, are fed up with the BS from slob hunters, and trespassers getting off on technicalities, among other things. I can understand where they are coming from. If you can't understand at least part of their issues, you are part of the problem. You should just keep your mouth shut, as you do no good for nobody. Honestly ask yourselves these questions. If you owned a bunch of land, and dealt with a bunch of BS from hunters year after year, would you still keep your land open to the public? Likely no. So, what would it take to make it worth your while to keep it open?

It's time to face the facts boys. ND will never be like it was. Our kids will not experience it like we did. ND will become a no trespass state at some point, and it will take money to keep any good private land open to public hunting. The whining and entitlement attitude does nothing for nobody. The sooner we accept that the sooner we can start working on ways to mitigate the damage.

It has been brought up many times on here, PLOTS. We need to figure out how to get more money into it. We need to figure out how we can get bigger, more connected tracts of land into it. I have hunted on a lot of Block Mgmt in MT, and while I agree with dirty that we won't have that quality of access program, we can try to do better then where we are at now.

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gee... I wonder who THAT would be????

Maybe a better question to ask is, who's posts are they cherry picking? And are they improving or hurting hunter/landowner relations? Are they representing my thoughts as a hunter in a good way?

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Good post Dirty. For a week we argued if there is a problem, We should have been working together on solutions .



OK, Insert fingers in ears and scream at me some more. ;:;badidea

Davey, no offense, but there are also landowners who make other landowners look like shit. It goes both ways. Maybe keep that in mind too.

 

[guywhofishes]

How does this law stop/prevent/curtail slob hunters and trespassers? I am genuinely perplexed.

Are there any data on how many people actually get off due to "technicalities" that this law fixes?

And what are these "other things" that are pissing off landowners?

Because I AM a landowner. And I suspect our property will be treated CRAPPIER if this passes. Talk about no reason for slobs/jerks/cheats to even try to be nice anymore. What am I supposed to do - hire a 24/7 security team to make sure the abusers get arrested and prosecuted? Pffft.

 

[Migrator Man]

Obi amd Allen bring up good points. OnX has a disclaimer stating they aren’t 100% accurate and not liable. If SB2315 passes in current form, who holds the liability of errors within the database leading to trespassing violations and/or trophy animals harvested without permission?

I have asked game wardens in WY about instances like this where the app says it’s public land and a landowner claims it is private. The warden said if the app says the land is public that is enough to prove you are not trespassing. You may end up having to leave , but you won’t be booked for trespassing.

 

[guywhofishes]

I have asked game wardens in WY about instances like this where the app says it’s public land and a landowner claims it is private. The warden said if the app says the land is public that is enough to prove you are not trespassing. You may end up having to leave , but you won’t be booked for trespassing.

that makes no sense - I'm not saying it's not true - but it's BS

"somebody else said it was OK for me to trespass - so it's not my fault"?

 

[Migrator Man]

How does this law stop/prevent/curtail slob hunters and trespassers? I am genuinely perplexed.

Are there any data on how many people actually get off due to "technicalities" that this law fixes?

And what are these "other things" that are pissing off landowners?

Because I AM a landowner. And I suspect our property will be treated CRAPPIER if this passes. Talk about no reason for slobs/jerks/cheats to even try to be nice anymore. What am I supposed to do - hire a 24/7 security team to make sure the abusers get arrested and prosecuted? Pffft.

Other than Davey I have not heard any detailed stories about slob hunters getting off on technicalities. Even if there is only a single poster up on a section a person can still be charged with trespassing. The hunting on posted land charge might not stick since the land wasn’t legally posted but doesn’t get you out of trespassing. Maybe we need to stiffen trespassing laws and eliminate these loopholes that supposedly exist. Make it easier for farmers to post too by allowing painted posts to signify no hunting allowed.

 

[Davey Crockett]

How does this law stop/prevent/curtail slob hunters and trespassers? I am genuinely perplexed.


This issue is area specific in a lot of cases , In areas where there are problems there are a few brave ones that aren't scared of trespassing or getting caught trespassing because they know the laws are on their side.



Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.

 

[Migrator Man]

that makes no sense - I'm not saying it's not true - but it's BS

"somebody else said it was OK for me to trespass - so it's not my fault"?

These apps are the best resource LEO have to identify who owns the land. Land isn’t sectioned out in back country parts of WY so it’s difficult to read a paper plat map.