The "NEW" SB 2315 - Pucker Up Buttercup!

[Whisky]

Other than Davey I have not heard any detailed stories about slob hunters getting off on technicalities. Even if there is only a single poster up on a section a person can still be charged with trespassing. The hunting on posted land charge might not stick since the land wasn’t legally posted but doesn’t get you out of trespassing. Maybe we need to stiffen trespassing laws and eliminate these loopholes that supposedly exist. Make it easier for farmers to post too by allowing painted posts to signify no hunting allowed.

There are many stories of guys getting off on technicalities. It obviously happens more often then some realize..... I do think eliminating those loopholes would go a long ways towards more trespasser prosecution, and I would MUCH prefer to see that happen vs ND becoming a no trespass state. Is it enough to ease tensions, I don't know.

Guy, the trespass law will do nothing to help poachers and slob hunters. But IMO it would absolutely help trespassing, because there are no more BS technicalities for them to get off on. Will it stop it, no. But it would certainly help.

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that makes no sense - I'm not saying it's not true - but it's BS

"somebody else said it was OK for me to trespass - so it's not my fault"?

I found my self in a situation in the badlands where OnX didn't match up with the posted fence line. In fact it was off about 200 yds, and there was a nice draw that I wanted to hunt. I stayed out, I took pictures, and measurements and screenshots and went to visit the nearest yard. When I got there little did I know the landowner took down my vehicle info and called in at the same yard I was at. I explained the situation to them and asked about the discrepancy. They politely informed me that the Onx app was wrong and that other hunters have been prosecuted for being back there, and they also gave me a heads up the landowner was asking them about me. I didn't push the issue, and never went back. I should have contacted the local warden to see who was right, Onx or landowner, but it wasn't worth my time at that point. This has me very curious now, that I may try to contact that warden now and see what he says about that particular chunk of land.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I have been doing a lot of thinking on this issue. And up until this point have stayed out of these conversations. In fact when I saw the amended bill yesterday I fired off my first email in 10 years

Where did you find the amended bill ? Please post a link so I can read it. Thanks.

 

[Whisky]

Where did you find the amended bill ? Please post a link so I can read it. Thanks.

Whatever was posted on the OP in this thread. If amended is the wrong word, I'm sorry. I thought that is what it said.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Ok thanks, Now I can quit looking for something that isn't there yet. What was posted by OP was his opinion of what he is guessing will be included in the final amended bill.


Here’s the current version of the amendment in PDF (not final released version...but I'm guessing it's pretty close).

 

[Whisky]

Ok thanks, Now I can quit looking for something that isn't there yet. What was posted by OP was his opinion of what he is guessing will be included in the final amended bill.


Here’s the current version of the amendment in PDF (not final released version...but I'm guessing it's pretty close).

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[1bigfokker]

Database partially operational by 2020 and fully functional by 2022. Smells like medical marijuana to me. A fucking disfunctional mess.

 

[Migrator Man]

How does this law stop/prevent/curtail slob hunters and trespassers? I am genuinely perplexed.


This issue is area specific in a lot of cases , In areas where there are problems there are a few brave ones that aren't scared of trespassing or getting caught trespassing because they know the laws are on their side.



Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.

Laws weren’t going to stop DAPL protesters from trespassing. They didn’t trespass knowing they had a good chance they could get off on a technicality, they were going to trespass in disregard of any consequence.

The only thing a no trespass law will do is not require landowners to post their land. It does nothing to stop people from trespassing. How about we make it easier for landowners to post? Allowed painted fence posts to designate no hunting or trespassing? Why can’t we come up with a true compromise that works for all?

 

[deleted member]

i get at least a few of these types of cases every fall. on average 3 different cases. sometimes multiple defendants since most people don't hunt alone. maybe i suck as a lawyer. but, very few "get off" on technicalities. however, SAs and LEOs are often understanding that 95% of the time the trespass is not intentional. with one exception in the last 5 years, the cases all involved honest mistakes. most people don't go out looking to trespass. like setting up in a field for 3 or 4 hours with 5 guys, 2 dogs and thousands of dollars of equipment that could all be subject to forfeiture. so, they usually get sweet deals unless its quite apparent that it couldn't have been an honest mistake and was a complete disregard for the law.

you can all about imagine the "mistakes" or, in the landowner's view, "excuses". we entered here, there wasn't a poster. poster buried in the weeds. poster knocked or laying down. we got permission from dave and we were certain it was his land... turns out it's joe's land. this poster looks like its for that parcel, not this one. we put the boat in on a right away so we thought we were legal as long as we didn't stand on shore. one this last year was a situation where they had had permission from the landowner forever. couldn't get him on the phone that morning. talked to his mom who obviously didn't know shit. so, they entered. turns out the landowner leased the rights this year. oooppsie daisy! not smart. the list goes on and on.... in most cases though, the hunter could have avoided the problem with a bit more due diligence and caution.

although i don't agree with a bill making everything automatically posted, i do have to admit that it would take away the "excuses". however, i still have to argue there are a lot of landowners that don't care and don't want to be bothered. more than we think in a lot of instances. i also don't think its as big a problem as some make it out to be. truly intentional trespass is a rare occurrence in my experience. however, the few instances where it is a problem are like a case of herpes for landowners. they never forget it, its always there and there is a big chance there is going to be another break out (or instance) again in the future.

 

[Whisky]

The only thing a no trespass law will do is not require landowners to post their land. It does nothing to stop people from trespassing. How about we make it easier for landowners to post? Allowed painted fence posts to designate no hunting or trespassing? Why can’t we come up with a true compromise that works for all?

Playing devils advocate....A no trespass law won't stop people from trespassing (in your opinion). But painted fence posts will? The goal is to reduce trespassing. So the compromise would need to.....reduce trespassing.

 

[Brian Renville]

How much poaching of contact info do you think will be going on on the “database”?

 

[deleted member]

the painted fence post deal would certainly take away one excuse. my problem with that though and one of the reasons i have always supported the requirement for a name on the poster is that i don't like the idea of locals being able to phantom post land they don't own just because they know the landowner lives in timbuktu in order to keep others off. i've heard more than a few stories like that. so, i can see plenty of instances of painted fence posts not authorized by the true landowner.

 

[Migrator Man]

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I found my self in a situation in the badlands where OnX didn't match up with the posted fence line. In fact it was off about 200 yds, and there was a nice draw that I wanted to hunt. I stayed out, I took pictures, and measurements and screenshots and went to visit the nearest yard. When I got there little did I know the landowner took down my vehicle info and called in at the same yard I was at. I explained the situation to them and asked about the discrepancy. They politely informed me that the Onx app was wrong and that other hunters have been prosecuted for being back there, and they also gave me a heads up the landowner was asking them about me. I didn't push the issue, and never went back. I should have contacted the local warden to see who was right, Onx or landowner, but it wasn't worth my time at that point. This has me very curious now, that I may try to contact that warden now and see what he says about that particular chunk of land.

I don’t think the game and fish app would be any more accurate than the onX map and there will be errors than will put hunters and landowners in conflict. The app needs to be nearly perfect if that’s what we are supposed to follow. This app idea is a bad solution to the problem. Lawmakers should be focusing on easier ways for landowners to post. Landowners shouldn’t have to allow an app to broadcast their land is open to hunting.

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Playing devils advocate....A no trespass law won't stop people from trespassing (in your opinion). But painted fence posts will? The goal is to reduce trespassing. So the compromise would need to.....reduce trespassing.

Painted fence posts would 1. Make it easier for landowners to post and 2. Get rid of the loophole some trespassers are using because signs were torn down. But illegal posting would have to be addressed as espringer has pointed out. I do think it will reduce trespassing just as much as a no trespass law, which may not be much of a reduction.

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How much poaching of contact info do you think will be going on on the “database”?

I wouldn’t willingly post my information on the public database especially a valid address or a working phone number!

 

[Uncle Jimbo]

I found my self in a situation in the badlands where OnX didn't match up with the posted fence line. In fact it was off about 200 yds, and there was a nice draw that I wanted to hunt. I stayed out, I took pictures, and measurements and screenshots and went to visit the nearest yard. When I got there little did I know the landowner took down my vehicle info and called in at the same yard I was at. I explained the situation to them and asked about the discrepancy. They politely informed me that the Onx app was wrong and that other hunters have been prosecuted for being back there, and they also gave me a heads up the landowner was asking them about me. I didn't push the issue, and never went back. I should have contacted the local warden to see who was right, Onx or landowner, but it wasn't worth my time at that point. This has me very curious now, that I may try to contact that warden now and see what he says about that particular chunk of land.

I would encourage you to follow up on that, for your own knowledge and to maybe get OnX to update if incorrect to prevent future conflicts.

Ive also seen the same type of discrepancy before but where OnX was correct and the fence wasn’t. I asked the landowner and he told me the fence wasn’t on the property line due to difficulty fencing that area. He said I could legally cross the fence and travel about 100 yards before I was no longer on public land and instead on private.

To the original intent of this thread, these two incidents illustrate there are issues inherent with the use of an online database.

 

[deleted member]

the information source onx uses is pretty reliable by its nature. and i don't believe their presentation of said information is subject to human error based on input from their end. so, i would be very surprised to find out they were wrong. for them to have wrong information, the county recorders office would likely have to have wrong information.

 

[fireone]

Looks like SB-2315 is amended again this morning. It seems like a bad soap opera that never ends.

 

[Jiffy]

Screw it...I'm just going to sell all of my guns and start doing drugs.

 

[guywhofishes]

the information source onx uses is pretty reliable by its nature. and i don't believe their presentation of said information is subject to human error based on input from their end. so, i would be very surprised to find out they were wrong. for them to have wrong information, the county recorders office would likely have to have wrong information.

yeah - OnX is correct on our land but fences aren't.

The fence in the pic below is over 200 yds too far west (left) onto our land - you can just see the cattleguard and fence-line just about centered in the pic.

The fence is supposed to be at the far right edge of the pic (the actual property line). We're getting screwed out of a pretty big chunk and I suspect we'll get motivated and move it some day.



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I drew a line in OnX and the app says it's 230yds too far west. Ha ha.

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Also - the fence follows the road. Our neighbor to the south is "losing land" on the east end - we're losing land on the west end.

 

[deleted member]

Screw it...I'm just going to sell all of my guns and start doing drugs.

why sell your guns first?

 

[Marbleyes]

yeah - OnX is correct on our land but fences aren't.

The fence in the pic below is over 200 yds too far west (left) onto our land - you can just see the cattleguard and fence-line just about centered in the pic.

The fence is supposed to be at the far right edge of the pic (the actual property line). We're getting screwed out of a pretty big chunk and I suspect we'll get motivated and move it some day.



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I drew a line in OnX and the app says it's 230yds too far west. Ha ha.

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Also - the fence follows the road. Our neighbor to the south is "getting screwed" on the east end - we're getting screwed on the west end.

Guy, maybe you are already aware of this but just in case you aren't. You run the risk of potentially losing some of your land to your neighbor through an adverse possession claim. If that was my land, I'd put the fence where it is supposed to be just to be safe.

 

[guywhofishes]

Good info - it was there when we acquired it.