The "NEW" SB 2315 - Pucker Up Buttercup!

[risingsun]

Be nice, it is just the billhilly coming out.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Did you check the first post of this thread?

Here’s the current version of the amendment in PDF (not final released version...but I'm guessing it's pretty close).

Wow, what a mess that amended bill is...

I emailed the Ag Committee and my district senator a few weeks back when this first was being discussed and I recently emailed all the senators a few days ago about the amended version. I have gotten a couple responses from people against it. I received one response asking for the parts of the amended version that I had concerns with. I promptly responded to that senator. I also got one response that the senator had not seen the new amended version yet.

This bill cannot pass. If you haven't contacted the entire senate, please do so immediately. Thank you

 

[Davey Crockett]

No, Davy would rather run his trap.

Sorry, it’s a big pet peeve of mine when people can’t have the courtesy to read through a thread and sift through all the info before posting. My responses normally get a bit snarky at that point!

Go read post # 84 and see who is running their trap, It's a pet peeve of mine too. Nothing that I get a bit snarky about but there are things that can do that to me. Like being a punching bag because I don't agree 100% with what is being said. I won't take anything as gospel if it's someone else's opinion of what they are guessing is close.

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Did you check the first post of this thread?

Here’s the current version of the amendment in PDF (not final released version...but I'm guessing it's pretty close).

See post # 84

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Are there any more committee meetings on this bill ?

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Wow, what a mess that amended bill is...

I emailed the Ag Committee and my district senator a few weeks back when this first was being discussed and I recently emailed all the senators a few days ago about the amended version. I have gotten a couple responses from people against it. I received one response asking for the parts of the amended version that I had concerns with. I promptly responded to that senator. I also got one response that the senator had not seen the new amended version yet.

This bill cannot pass. If you haven't contacted the entire senate, please do so immediately. Thank you

 

[Vollmer]

Let's try to keep things civil. I know that this is a heated topic, and understandably so, but all of us need to have this discussion as adults. This is an important topic, and both sides are hurting themselves by acting childish in their arguments. Trust me, this thread is being seen by those in authority.

 

[Davey Crockett]

The New amended version has not been released as of last night.

 

[guywhofishes]

I have been looking for the amended bill since I first heard it was going to be amended and I haven't saw it. I've heard rumors how bad it is from others that probably don't have a clue what the changes are and quite a few people with the sky is falling attitude are stretching the truth to get others to take action and "Join the fight" . AKA dogpile anyone that doesn't agree 100% with hunters .
Based on the responses I see on here I'd say senator Wanzak is probably right . Sportsmen are sometimes their own enemy and reality is going to feel like a brick to some .

I've seen hundreds of posts on NDA (and FBO) where sportsmen recognize problems (since FBO and NDA were established in fact) and nearly 100% of sportsmen here want to see changes that will help alleviate the problems. NDA members universally loathe private property abusers just as much if not more than landowners. So knock it off with the "dogpile anyone who doesn't agree with hunters 100%" garbage.

You're exaggerating the case - just like somebody else here on NDA who used to do it all the time. You got some pushback earlier in the thread (or another one on this topic) and now you're back - playing the role of antagonist for no reason outside of revenge/spite.

This is not the landowner bashfest topic you make it out to be. You're just here to throw Molotov cocktails - which is exactly what we don't need.

 

[KDM]

You're a punching bag Davey because you aren't up front about what you think. You try to be sneaky, subtle, underhanded, and deceitful by giving half truths, vague support, and false claims about your position on an issue and then claim to be the victim when you get caught at it. You make veiled insults to people for their opinions and use your favorite visual of a screaming child with his fingers in his ears, but then claim others "hit a nerve" or touched your "pet peeve" like that is an excuse to behave and treat people poorly and disrespectfully. You are NOT a victim Davey except of your own design and in you own mind. All your posts are available for everyone to see and it's OH SO OBVIOUS. I see through it and so do many others. This "dog pile" you claim, is only the result of SO MANY people disagreeing with you and your position and for some reason you try to paint their opinions as being of less value because they all disagree with you and again, YOU"RE THE VICTIM" of dog piling. Keep up the good work Davey.

 

[njsimonson]

Are there any more committee meetings on this bill?

The committee is supposedly meeting on it today and tomorrow, and it may hit the floor for a senate vote as soon as Monday by the sources I've talked to - but there will most likely be no more public hearings on this (called a "hoghouse" bill, which is one that gets gutted, amended and thrown to a vote straight out of committee, without much warning).

And that's probably the scariest part related to your statement that you've looked all over and never found it - because as important as it is, and as sweeping as its changes may be, and as hotly-contested as it is, this version has not been made available by its sponsors or the legislature to the general public, and not having honest, open public discourse about something that will affect so many people (landowners and hunters) in ND is the wrong way to be handling this.

 

[Davey Crockett]

guywhofishes , I have issues with the laws the way they are now and It took me about a week and many posts to finally convince people there is a problem and we should be looking for solutions so I guess I accomplished one thing. The most common responses I got is there is no problem. I'll take what you said with a grain of salt and leave it at that. If you want to back up to the other threads that were already started before this one where I was dodging Molotov cocktails left and right and getting my ass chewed because of my opinion we can do that too. Don't sit there and tell me I am the only one causing friction here.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

This bill reminds me of the Obamacare bill when Nancy Pelosi said “we have to pass it so we know what’s in it.” EpicFail

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I have issues with the laws the way they are now and It took me about a week and many posts to finally convince people there is a problem and we should be looking for solutions so I guess I accomplished one thing. The most common responses I got is there is no problem. I'll take what you said with a grain of salt and leave it at that. If you want to back up to the other threads that were already started before this one where I was dodging Molotov cocktails left and right and getting my ass chewed because of my opinion we can do that too. Don't sit there and tell me I am the only one causing friction here.

There’s going to be problems with whatever solution gets cooked up to solve whatever people see as the current problem. And then there is going to be the people who are going to do whatever they want regardless of the old law or a new law.

 

[KDM]

So how is the public supposed to comment on a hoghouse bill?? Passing amended bills without them being at least available to the public doesn't fill me with any sense of confidence that ND doesn't have the same "Swamp" that washington has. Especially on a bill as awful and damaging as this one. This has the same "vibe" as the taxation without representation that caused such a rukus in the past and the more recent "we have to pass it to see what's in it" insanity. I'm ill at ease right now with this whole thing from start to finish regardless of the outcome.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Well say what you want about me KDM It's your opinion and your belief just like your opinion and belief of Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier who was there and fought this BS and knows the frustration first hand. There is no problem with the current laws you say, Well I disagree . You can call me what ever you want but there is one thing I am not and that's intimidated . So why not save your energy you waste with the BS attitude and remarks and actually try to come up with solutions ?

 

[aron]

OnX, TRAX, etc. do not create the GIS information for their databases. They simply take data from counties that created the GIS information. IF it is incorrect within OnX, it is more than likely incorrect at the county GIS level. That is why you see some counties or partial information (no land owner info) on these maps, it's because the county has not digitized the PLAT info and released it. Many state agencies are using tools like OnX for accurate land borders and should as the data is the same as the county GIS information.

 

[Kurtr]

do gun free zones work?
drugs are illegal do we have a drug problem?

If there is an endemic of trespassing in nodak now how will making it more illegal fix any thing? Trespassing is already illegal

We have the trespass law here it is all i have ever known and dont feel it has stopped trespassers as they will do it law or no law. It has made it so when i have permission i dont have to worry about other people ruining my hunt also made some good friends.

The real way to keep trespassers off is patrolling the land as law breakers dont care about laws.

This new bill would have not stopped dapl

I think the real travesty you guys face is it being forced through but now i will mind my own business and let Nodak residents handle nodak problems.

 

[guywhofishes]

Quick side question for you guys. I was on the Dunn County GIS and saw some parcels that were stamped NON AG TAX and some were stamped State School Land. OnX shows them all the same - State Land of North Dakota.

What's the difference between those parcels stamped NON AG TAX and those stamped State School Land?

 

[KDM]

Well say what you want about me KDM It's your opinion and your belief just like your opinion and belief of Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier who was there and fought this BS and knows the frustration first hand. There is no problem with the current laws you say, Well I disagree . You can call me what ever you want but there is one thing I am not and that's intimidated . So why not save your energy you waste with the BS attitude and remarks and actually try to come up with solutions ?

I think I just did Davey. Thanks! Now to refocus here. As far as SB2315 is concerned, the way the posting laws are now is just fine. We already have trespass laws and you and the other supporters of this useless piece of legislation have FAILED to convince me of, is that there is even a problem here that NEEDS a solution. So until you and any of your comrades can show me ONE: there is a problem with our current trespass laws and TWO: how SB2315 would prevent any more trespass violations and be better than what we currently have, I think the BS falls squarely on your shoulders Davey for NOT anwering these first before launching into a useless tirade.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I think I just did Davey. Thanks! Now to refocus here. As far as SB2315 is concerned, the way the posting laws are now is just fine. We already have trespass laws and you and the other supporters of this useless piece of legislation have FAILED to convince me of, is that there is even a problem here that NEEDS a solution. So until you and any of your comrades can show me ONE: there is a problem with our current trespass laws and TWO: how SB2315 would prevent any more trespass violations and be better than what we currently have, I think the BS falls squarely on your shoulders Davey for NOT anwering these first before launching into a useless tirade.

I did answer and my answer didn't convince you and I am fine with that, I respect your opinion. My own experience is good enough for me to think there is room for improvement but was of no value to you so I posted the opinion of someone with more first hand experience with trespassers than the whole bunch of us put together and that was of no value to you either so that's all the energy I want to put into convincing you that I have a problem with the laws as they are now. All I can do is move on and respect your opinion. You don't have a problem with the current laws and I do, That is all we have gained.

Update:edit: KDM, I have never said I have the answers other than close up the loopholes in the current laws so they are more enforceable.



Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.
Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.

 

[Meelosh]

Is their argument really that they want to create a new law based on an unprecedented event (the DAPL) protest and is unlikely to ever happen again (at least in the magnitude and in this state?). Cuz to me, it seem like a convenient excuse.

 

[guywhofishes]

If only the state had different trespass laws back when DAPL occurred, it wouldn't have been a problem.

[h=1]North Dakota to sue feds over DAPL protest police costs[/h][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:57 p.m. CST

[/FONT]BISMARCK, N.D. - North Dakota will sue the federal government to try to recoup the $38 million it spent policing prolonged protests against the Dakota Access oil pipeline.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem says the Army Corps of Engineers didn't respond to an administrative claim he filed last July, so the state will sue. The U.S. Department of Justice declined to comment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The state's case is based on the fact that thousands of pipeline protesters camped on federal land without a permit. The Corps has said protesters weren't evicted due to free speech reasons.[/FONT]

https://kfgo.com/news/articles/2019/feb/12/north-dakota-to-sue-feds-over-dapl-protest-police-costs/

 

[Obi-Wan]

I did answer and my answer didn't convince you and I am fine with that, I respect your opinion. My own experience is good enough for me to think there is room for improvement but was of no value to you so I posted the opinion of someone with more first hand experience with trespassers than the whole bunch of us put together and that was of no value to you either so that's all the energy I want to put into convincing you that I have a problem with the laws as they are now. All I can do is move on and respect your opinion. You don't have a problem with the current laws and I do, That is all we have gained.

Update:edit: KDM, I have never said I have the answers other than close up the loopholes in the current laws so they are more enforceable.



Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.
Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.

Davey you keep hanging your hat on one mans testimony that had to do with the DAPL protest which this bill would do nothing to prevent. No where does it specifically address protests on private property if that is what they are truly after. The only thing even close to it this

"An individual is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if that individual remains upon the
property of another after being requested to leave the property by a duly authorized
individual. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a class A
misdemeanor for the second or subsequent offense within a two-year period."

which gives them the option to leave or be cited for trespassing, which again the LEO would have a hard time proving that everyone heard the request to leave the property.

This bill is clearly aimed at the hunters. The word hunt, hunts, hunters, hunting, along with other forms of the word hunt is used 54 times