Well this is going to get interesting

[Obi-Wan]

it appears the bears love the Alaskan pipeline

Perhaps this is a good idea but I thought I heard on the news today that the recent pipeline failure NW of Belfield was a pipe that had been replaced not long ago. Maybe required maintenance instead of total replacement would serve as well. It is also speculated that for some reason the monitoring device failed to sense the leak. Will be interesting to see the reason for the leak when all is said and done.

In the end, regardless of how oil is moved we are going to have cleanup from accidents. The one pipeline that I don't hear much about and has moved millions of barrels of oil is the huge pipeline in Alaska. Remember the concern about that pipeline when it was being built.Leaks were going to be a problem, caribou would never be able to migrate, etc. Now I don't ever hear about it. I'm sure there have been leaks and issues but it seems like they are taken care of somehow. As long as we are moving oil we will have to clean it up occasionally.

 

[eyexer]

Perhaps this is a good idea but I thought I heard on the news today that the recent pipeline failure NW of Belfield was a pipe that had been replaced not long ago. Maybe required maintenance instead of total replacement would serve as well. It is also speculated that for some reason the monitoring device failed to sense the leak. Will be interesting to see the reason for the leak when all is said and done.

In the end, regardless of how oil is moved we are going to have cleanup from accidents. The one pipeline that I don't hear much about and has moved millions of barrels of oil is the huge pipeline in Alaska. Remember the concern about that pipeline when it was being built.Leaks were going to be a problem, caribou would never be able to migrate, etc. Now I don't ever hear about it. I'm sure there have been leaks and issues but it seems like they are taken care of somehow. As long as we are moving oil we will have to clean it up occasionally.

My understanding is it was 41 years old. Yea the Alaska pipeline turned out to be perfectly fine. The animals actually gather by it in winter to keep warm because the oil going down it is warm. Animals adapt to new things in their surroundings extremely quickly and very well. Probably won't be long now and we will be drilling in ANWR

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i am completely floored that this isn't protocol by now?!

not a surprise actually. remember the regulations on pipelines are determined by size and whether or not they are interstate or intrastate. They are actually regulated by the U.S. DOT in most instances.

 

[huffranger]

My understanding is it was 41 years old. Yea the Alaska pipeline turned out to be perfectly fine. The animals actually gather by it in winter to keep warm because the oil going down it is warm. Animals adapt to new things in their surroundings extremely quickly and very well. Probably won't be long now and we will be drilling in ANWR

Now that's funny right there.....

 

[fly2cast]

i am completely floored that this isn't protocol by now?!

I agree. We need the pipelines but these issues of detecting leaks on the pipelines really need to be addressed by oil companies. They have nobody to blame but themselves for the negative views people have of the pipelines.

I talked to a guy that works in the pipeline business. I asked him how they detect leaks on the pipelines. He said its as simple as measuring the amount of product going in compared to what comes out. That really concerns me. At gas stations, the piping run from the underground tanks to the pumps may be 100 feet long in a 2 inch diameter pipe. They are required to have two forms of leak detection on the pressurized piping and have them double walled and totally contained. And these systems fail sometimes. There is no way to detect leaks by inventory alone.

I don't know exactly whats required of pipelines. I do know that with large diameter pipes that run for miles it would be darn near impossible to detect leaks. So I'm curious what they do. One pretty easy way to detect leaks would be to have double-walled systems with leak monitoring of the interstitial space. But as far as I know, they don't use double-walled systems.

Anybody know what they use?

 

[Brian Renville]

My understanding is it was 41 years old. Yea the Alaska pipeline turned out to be perfectly fine. The animals actually gather by it in winter to keep warm because the oil going down it is warm. Animals adapt to new things in their surroundings extremely quickly and very well. Probably won't be long now and we will be drilling in...

That doesn't surprise me one bit. If a guy really wants to see a big horn sheep just find a day like today and drive to a well site in the badlands.

 

[lunkerslayer]

fly2cast that is a really good question hopefully someone who's professionally knowledgeable in these alarms can fill us in because I have looked to find out what those devices are and can't seem to find any. Hopefully it's someone other than svnmags mother nature will take care of the oil spill but salt water brine is vile solution to the fix.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Yea the Alaska pipeline turned out to be perfectly fine. The animals actually gather by it in winter to keep warm because the oil going down it is warm.

During summer the caribou stand next to it because the breeze coming over the top sucks the mosquito's and flies off their backs.

 

[fly2cast]

fly2cast that is a really good question hopefully someone who's professionally knowledgeable in these alarms can fill us in because I have looked to find out what those devices are and can't seem to find any. Hopefully it's someone other than svnmags mother nature will take care of the oil spill but salt water brine is vile solution to the fix.

From what I understand, all they do is check inventory and also do regular integrity checks of the pipeline walls. The integrity checks are fine but unless they do them daily (which they dont) they only find leaks long after they occur.

 

[huffranger]

Here comes the rant......

There are different operators of different types of pipelines. Any transit crude lines are under DOT jurisdiction and are very well maintained and regulated by the Feds.

Smaller independently owned lines are the ones leaking in North Dakota. They are not being regulated as much as they should, IMHO the state of ND is acting like they have to invent the regulations and supervision of the oil and gas industry. Instead of copying Alaska or Texas laws that have been in service for many years, Alaska's AOGCC is a top rate outfit and watches out for the safety and environmental violations and fines accordingly.

North Dakota is reinventing the wheel and so far sucking at making the small oil company's comply with safety and environmental standards that are the NORM in Alaska. It's all about spending the least to make the most.

Pigging lines with smart pigs to identify wall loss and damage
Pigging lines to mechanicaly clean lines
U/T and R/T inspection for internal/ external corrosion
Chemical injection (Biocide or Corrosion Inhibitor )
Cathodic protection for underground locations
VSM maintenance for grade and support
Line vibration limiting devices ( dingle balls )

Are all ways to maintain a hydrocarbon service line.....

Leak detection takes up many forms and brands. We use the Atmos system on our transit oil line that is 16" ID and 27 miles long.

https://atmosi.com/products-services/leak-detection/

Things that are paid attention to by competent operators are....
Pressure loss at many points on the line
Product rate at different locations on the line
Temp readings at different locations
Total volume shipped and received ( our line comes into high priority alarm when the number varies 1 % )

So again the ignorance and neglect of a few affect the many.

Pipelines are the safest way to move hydrocarbons to market. Period.....

 

[lunkerslayer]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/407023/self-healing-pipelines/

Have you heard of this type

 

[Davey Crockett]

I read that link lunker, Seems to me it's like putting a band aid on a badly broken leg and hoping it will be ok for a while without going to the doctor .

 

[fly2cast]

There are different operators of different types of pipelines. Any transit crude lines are under DOT jurisdiction and are very well maintained and regulated by the Feds...

Leak detection takes up many forms and brands. We use the Atmos system on our transit oil line that is 16" ID and 27 miles long.

Just curious, what kind of leak rates can the leak detection systems detect? For gas stations they have to be capable of detecting leaks of .2 gallons per hour on a monthly basis and 3 gph on a continuous basis.

 

[huffranger]

1%

 

[lunkerslayer]

I read that link lunker, Seems to me it's like putting a band aid on a badly broken leg and hoping it will be ok for a while without going to the doctor .

That is what I thought but with other technology to gather information it would be just that a way to stop the leak especially if the leak is 90 feet under a lake. How else do they fix a leak that far under ground.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I do think we need to take a serious look at older pipelines. Wonder if we shouldn't be putting a shelf life on them based on their size, specs, corrosion proofing, etc. Decommission them after a certain number of years.

I agree Eye, The state should have been doing this 50 years ago but it seems like they don't want to implement something that might require a little extra workload. That is the only "good" excuse there is for the shit show I've watched over the last 40 years.

 

[eyexer]

you guys would shit if you knew how few pipelines have leak detection. as an example, little to no salt water lines between the well and the disposal have leak detection. numbers of barrels are entered into a spread sheet that left that lact (pump) and sent to the disposal. eventually they are cross checked with the amount that made it to the disposal. some companies do this daily some don't. so if a leak occurs it may take one day it may take days to discover. some of the newer lact units have systems that constantly compare the flow rate into the disposal with the flow rate leaving the lact at the well site. but they don't necessarily set off an alarm. it's just a way for us to determine if one of those needs calibrating. the state is extremely lenient on what they require. this has to stop. the fines are nothing. A federal fine for us for just leaving a tank hatch open and emitting vapors is 10K. I urge you to look up the fines the state industrial commission has levied in the state of ND and see how many have exceeded 10K for anything. emitting fumes is a trivial thing compared to a pipeline spill. The state does not want to force an extra dollar of cost on these companies. Until we change from having one agency doing the regulating, promoting and fining we will always have this. it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Wow eye you basically given us every reason to be scared of these pipe under our feets. It must be such a conflict of interest for you to see such a lack of respect to north Dakota values.

 

[Davey Crockett]

That is what I thought but with other technology to gather information it would be just that a way to stop the leak especially if the leak is 90 feet under a lake. How else do they fix a leak that far under ground.

There has been a lot of R&D for rebuilding old city sewer systems without replacing them. They have saved us taxpayers a lot of money but Petro lines are a different breed of cat . The pipe under the river should be as simple as running an outer pipe so you can remove and replace inner pipe if needed. I still don't buy into the double pipe will fail theory, They make centralizers to keep inner pipe from ever touching outer pipe, I've ran hundreds if not thousands of them. Has anyone ever saw a piece of real AK pipeline material ? I had friends working on it and one brought back a "Trophey" cut in the shape AK , I'd dare say the AK pipeline would last longer than our need for oil ill be if it was buried under the river without cathodic protection.



Huff Ranger said it best..... So again the ignorance and neglect of a few affect the many.

Pipelines are the safest way to move hydrocarbons to market. Period.....

 

[deleted_account]

Wow eye you basically given us every reason to be scared of these pipe under our feets. It must be such a conflict of interest for you to see such a lack of respect to north Dakota values.

nah, id take a pipeline without any detection measures in place over several thousand semi trucks any day.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Not me I would like safe pipelines and cheap gas to, I have never had to deal with any sort of spill and hope I never do.