Wyoming muledeer

[PrairieGhost]

https://www.buffalobulletin.com/article_f9a2508e-3315-11ef-9ca9-bf3570f00eb7.html

This will start an old debate, but things are changing and fast. Like we have seen before the outfitters are standing in the way of management. In a few years the naysayers will not be laughing so hard.

 

[Ericb]

https://www.buffalobulletin.com/article_f9a2508e-3315-11ef-9ca9-bf3570f00eb7.html

This will start an old debate, but things are changing and fast. Like we have seen before the outfitters are standing in the way of management. In a few years the naysayers will not be laughing so hard.

Interesting article! I think it's a little cherry picking to try and say anything negative about the outfitters from that.
I not surprised.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Interesting article! I think it's a little cherry picking to try and say anything negative about the outfitters from that.
I not surprised.

Maybe you missed the part where they said outfitters stop them from herd reduction to try control the disease. That does reflect negatively on them because it means they are putting their wallet ahead of the future of the resource. It reminds me of a meme a friend had in his office. It's two duck hunters and one is holding up a duck by one leg and says " I was lucky to get this duck their almost extinct". Humorous, but in a dark way.

 

[guywhofishes]

why not let natural selection do its thing?

culling makes no sense as it’s non-selective

help me understand the logic

 

[Kurtr]

Haha heard reduction. Since it’s been around for over 60 years I how are there still deer. Science we need to create problems which equals funding

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Maybe you missed the part where they said outfitters stop them from herd reduction to try control the disease. That does reflect negatively on them because it means they are putting their wallet ahead of the future of the resource. It reminds me of a meme a friend had in his office. It's two duck hunters and one is holding up a duck by one leg and says " I was lucky to get this duck their almost extinct". Humorous, but in a dark way.

PrairieGhost pounds his keyboard, "those damn outfitters are commercializing the resource."

We have all heard this mantra over and over. In the 1800's the commercializers shot everything to sell to feed the railroad workers etc. Around 1900 laws were created to stop that practice and the government the sportsmen the landowners went out and fed the animals feed mineral and vitamins.
That is how they brought populations back.

Then don't feed the bears started. Now it's don't feed the deer. There is article upon article showing up how it is unwise to feed wildlife.

Back in 1967 the government found CWD in their nutritional study pens at Fort Collins Colorado and later at Sybille Wyoming. Were they feeding them corn vitamins and minerals to see how fat they could make them? Doubt it.

The prion theory is still a theory. Depending on who you are talking to. Like climate change some say the debate is over.

In PG's Wyoming article it mentions how bad CWD is in a certain area. Maybe the ground is lacking needed minerals and vitamins? They should do a nutritional study on that.

Commercialization of public resources is still happening today. The King Salmon in Alaska are being over fished. China cannot fish within 200 miles of or shores. A trammer boat sets on the boundary with a Norwegian flag. Our trawlers net fish and sail out to sea selling to the trammer boat. When it's full it heads to China.

The pollock and cod are handling the pressure, but many species are not. King Salmon are almost all hatchery raised.

I was just up there sport fishing and can tell you there are a lot of rules. The fishing was awesome, but the boats will tell you the catch is going down every year.

 

[PrairieGhost]

why not let natural selection do its thing?

culling makes no sense as it’s non-selective

help me understand the logic

I don't know if human intervention through herd reduction is logical, but natural selection could wipe out very large areas. The percentage of infection in one year was a big surprise to me. I'm still confused why it's more prevalent in ag areas.
Writing this off like we do global warming may be a big mistake. I woukd expect everyone involved with or profiting from deer to encourage you to make light of this problem. Keep in mind it appears to be something new, and it could be devastating before we see natural resistance build. I'll admit some science is political motivated bs, but some isn't. Armchair scientist can't tell the difference. I'm all with you on global warming etc, but I'm worried about CWD.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Hey PG, is the Northern Plains Wildlife Research Center USGS east of Jamestown still sending biologists and ecologists down to Wind Cave National Park to study CWD in the elk population there?

I read the prevalence is 30%. Are the elk dying from clinical signs? Is the herd going backward? Are there still too many and they are releasing/chasing the overproduction out of the high fence park?

 

[guywhofishes]

I don't know if human intervention through herd reduction is logical, but natural selection could wipe out very large areas. The percentage of infection in one year was a big surprise to me. I'm still confused why it's more prevalent in ag areas.
Writing this off like we do global warming may be a big mistake. I woukd expect everyone involved with or profiting from deer to encourage you to make light of this problem. Keep in mind it appears to be something new, and it could be devastating before we see natural resistance build. I'll admit some science is political motivated bs, but some isn't. Armchair scientist can't tell the difference. I'm all with you on global warming etc, but I'm worried about CWD.

either nature solves it or not.

killing large swaths of deer achieves nothing but large swaths of dead deer - a few of which might well contain the silver bullet genes necessary

but nope, kill em all and eliminate the few savior genes in the bunch?

makes zero sense

 

[CAH]

either nature solves it or not.

killing large swaths of deer achieves nothing but large swaths of dead deer - a few of which might well contain the silver bullet genes necessary

but nope, kill em all and eliminate the few savior genes in the bunch?

makes zero sense

I don’t disagree but I also feel that it isnt feasible to let nature be since we have been so heavy handed in it already. Humans have been fencing, planting fields, manipulating habitat and managing game herds for a century now. It is one of those deals where once you start you almost have to keep going.

For instance, if we let the walleyes naturally reproduce and stop stocking lakes, how many bodies of water in nodak would support populations that are fishable?

 

[guywhofishes]

Nobody has yet to explain how culling makes sense.

And please - No more “we have to do something” nonsense. That’s the kind of crap that government does all the time and the “something” almost always makes things worse.

What does culling do to solve this problem? Be specific and thorough in your reply.

Explain it to me like I’m eight years old.

 

[CAH]

Nobody has yet to explain how culling makes sense.

And please - No more “we have to do something” nonsense. That’s the kind of crap that government does all the time and the “something” almost always makes things worse.

What does culling do to solve this problem? Be specific and thorough in your reply.

Explain it to me like I’m eight years old.

You have a bowl of m&ms with a few poisoned ones in it. Do you get rid of the bowl altogether? Or do you just let them sit there on the counter and wait for people to naturally pick out the poisoned ones.

 

[Trip McNeely]

You have a bowl of m&ms with a few poisoned ones in it. Do you get rid of the bowl altogether? Or do you just let them sit there on the counter and wait for people to naturally pick out the poisoned ones.

But the people that pick out the poisonous ones has zero affect on them whatsoever and all goes on as normal

 

[BrockW]

 

[Trip McNeely]

Knock it off fauci

 

[Average_NDA_Member]

Hmmm nope sorry brockw no amount of research n stats is gonna change our minds round here it ain’t what we wanna hear therefore it all = liberal bs id rather see the population dwindle to a few dozen than change my mind

 

[guywhofishes]

“the science” must have been muttered 1,000 times in this bizarre video

You know who doesn’t mutter the phrase “the science”?

Scientists.

 

[Trip McNeely]

Hmmm nope sorry brockw no amount of research n stats is gonna change our minds round here it ain’t what we wanna hear therefore it all = liberal bs id rather see the population dwindle to a few dozen than change my mind

Yes and then those few dozen reproduce and their offspring reproduce all the while the genes or traits that make deer susceptible to CWD infection are completely wiped out of the gene pool and the deer bounce back healthier and more resistant than ever before. It’s called natural selection. It’s actual “science”. The shit your buddy Brock is peddling isn’t science. It’s eradication based on fear and tax dollars.

 

[Trip McNeely]

So let’s say the deer herd is all but wiped out of Wyoming. Maybe dozens here and there left to repopulate but all carrying the genes for resistance to cwd….. do you understand how carrying capacity works? Eventually the numbers in those pockets will grow and the deer will seek new habitat and spread back throughout Wyoming. And this plan will cost the taxpayers 0 dollars. As opposed to any federal plan that costs millions and will not do a damn thing. You want to talk to me about eradicating anything then come with some science that can predict which deer have it or not and then selectively harvest. Totally wiping out all genes is the most retarded thing you can do from a genetic standpoint. You’d be starting right back where you were once the population rebounded.

 

[Trip McNeely]

I want studies done in agricultural areas with multiple study groups that use primarily heavily grazed/farmed areas and I want study groups in populations of deer that are secluded to only natural vegetation with little to no agricultural interaction. Once you tell me the results of those studies then it’ll be clear how to proceed. But killing every deer in an area has got to be the most brain dead science I’ve ever heard. Even most full blown retards would understand that’s fully retarded.