Property Tax Increase

[Retired Educator]

eyexer - I have 2 homes neither of which is located on the farmland.

 

[Marbleyes]

Marbleyes, I am going to hazard a guess and say that those mineral royalties held in trust because the heirs/owners can't be found are the prime ones to get usurped by the current surface owner.

I should have been more clear in my above statement where I called them “lapsed minerals” the technical term is dormant or abandoned minerals. I just refer to them as lapsed minerals for work since the surface owner would file a notice of lapse. Also, I see I wrote that it has to be published in the county newspaper for 2 weeks, it’s 3 consecutive weeks. Not that that changes much but figured I’d clarify.

Allen, as far as your above quote above goes, This is not my area of expertise so don't take my word for it but I think once the wells are drilled, the status of an unlocatable mineral owner changes a bit because they would be force pooled within the spacing unit being drilled. I think adverse possession may be used to get those minerals after like 10 years or something like that (I’m not 100% sure on that though but obviously it still can’t be taken until the 20 year abandoned mineral law) but I don’t believe the surface owner would get the bonus money or royalty money, I think that money ends up with the state dealing with unclaimed property waiting to be claimed by the owner or their heirs.

On a little different note, our state recognizes the “duhig rule” which was a court case out of Texas and it has caused a fair amount of people to lose minerals because they hired attorneys who don’t know what they were doing or were just too lazy to research the laws of our state.

 

[deactivated]

Doesn't give the Mills for some odd reason.

- - - Updated - - -

If your a non-resident they withhold ND taxes from your check. But when you pay your income taxes in your home state you can file to have your taxes that were withheld in ND given back to you. You have to show proof of taxes paid in your home state. I can't remember for sure but the state might keep 10% of it. I just don't recall anymore.

What?!! You mean people bitch about taxes but do not know where to find the data that effects them? Real shocker.

 

[eyexer]

eyexer - I have 2 homes neither of which is located on the farmland.

they seriously try to not raises valuations or taxes on dirt. especially ag

- - - Updated - - -

I bet you cannot calculate the savings because of the lower evaluation then take into account the 12% increase do to the state not buying down taxes.

my statement shows the state buy down for this year also. it's tagged as "state legislative relief" or something to that affect. The 12% is a different item entirely.

- - - Updated - - -

There was a bill in the legislature a few years back that was going to tax mineral owners but it got shot down. I’m not 100% sure why but I would imagine partly because of the enormous nightmare that would have created. I’m guessing the 5% tax was done because it’s waaaay easier and it is done in lieu of a property tax on mineral owners. When this initially came up I was wondering how in the hell they would figure out who owns what minerals and how they were going to get ahold of them or their heirs, not to mention how they were going to enforce penalties on people who don’t live in this state or even in this country or are simply not even aware that they own minerals in the first place. There is a lot of money (I’d bet 10’s of millions) currently held in suspense by oil companies because they can’t find the mineral owners or any heirs to pay them their royalties. The state would have had to pay people who do what I do to run title on every tract of land in the state to figure it out and even then, there would have been endless lawsuits because these mineral conveyances aren’t always black and white and a lot of times are done by attorneys who have no clue what our state laws are and create a lot of ambiguity with the way some of these deeds are written. Who would foot the bill to pay people to figure this out? Keep in mind the state would have to compete with what oil companies pay for this type of work and I promise you that the residents of ND would have thrown a shit fit over that cost, and rightfully so.

the counties know exactly who owns what minerals and how much of them they own.

- - - Updated - - -

What?!! You mean people bitch about taxes but do not know where to find the data that effects them? Real shocker.

you asked me if the mills was listed. the "mills" is not listed.

 

[gst]

they seriously try to not raises valuations or taxes on dirt. especially ag

Would you like to trade increases?

 

[Marbleyes]

the counties know exactly who owns what minerals and how much of them they own..

Do you want to make a bet on that? I’d wager any amount you are willing to lose. They absolutely do NOT know who owns minerals and how many people own. Before you make a bet and lose money, I should disclose that figuring out who owns what is literally what I have done for a living for almost 12 years now.

 

[Davy Crockett]

I just got mine in the mail and took a quick gander , My dirt and timber acres have only went up roughly 5 cents an acre since 2015 while the 5 acre farmyard has went up a little over $ 100 .

 

[eyexer]

Do you want to make a bet on that? I’d wager any amount you are willing to lose. They absolutely do NOT know who owns minerals and how many people own. Before you make a bet and lose money, I should disclose that figuring out who owns what is literally what I have done for a living for almost 12 years now.

does that not all have to be filed with the county? if the county doesn't have that recorded who does? landmen spend hours in the court houses looking that information up do they not?

 

[Marbleyes]

Eye, here is what you said: “the counties know exactly who owns what minerals and how much of them they own”.
So again, your comment is false. They do not know who owns what for minerals.

The counties simply record the deeds and anything having to do with a tract of land gets recorded at the courthouse through the recorders office. They don’t read the documents and figure out who owns what, they simply record them against the lands.
You ever been in the vaults at a courthouse? If the country kept track of who owns what, my job would be way easier. I can’t tell you how many times a mineral owner has come to the courthouse asking “where is the book that says how many minerals I own?”. They tend to leave after they are shown how to figure it out.

 

[eyexer]

Eye, here is what you said: “the counties know exactly who owns what minerals and how much of them they own”.
So again, your comment is false. They do not know who owns what for minerals.

The counties simply record the deeds and anything having to do with a tract of land gets recorded at the courthouse through the recorders office. They don’t read the documents and figure out who owns what, they simply record them against the lands.
You ever been in the vaults at a courthouse? If the country kept track of who owns what, my job would be way easier. I can’t tell you how many times a mineral owner has come to the courthouse asking “where is the book that says how many minerals I own?”. They tend to leave after they are shown how to figure it out.

You took what I said out of context. My point was all that info is there in the court house but you have to dig. I didn't say it was easy or that you could walk in and ask for it and have it in five minutes. That's not gonna happen.

 

[Marbleyes]

You took what I said out of context. My point was all that info is there in the court house but you have to dig. I didn't say it was easy or that you could walk in and ask for it and have it in five minutes. That's not gonna happen.

Just wanted to clear up what you were saying because it was wrong. By the way, I didn’t take anything out of context since I literally quoted word for word exactly what you said and pointed out your entire post that responded to mine was incorrect. You may have misspoke or didn’t know how it works but nothing was taken out of context.

 

[eyexer]

Just wanted to clear up what you were saying because it was wrong. By the way, I didn’t take anything out of context since I literally quoted word for word exactly what you said and pointed out your entire post that responded to mine was incorrect. You may have misspoke or didn’t know how it works but nothing was taken out of context.

I was simply stating the county has all that information. I might have did a piss poor job trying to get that point across. Bottom line is all that info has to be in the court house.

 

[deleted member]

Marble, you in the verbatim opinion business?

 

[Marbleyes]

Marble, you in the verbatim opinion business?

Yes sir, that’s why I’ve been known to say “f’n attorneys” on an almost daily basis. One word can completely change the intent of a document and screw up title.

 

[deleted member]

But, not an attorney yourself? Ya... those suck! Feel for you.

 

[Marbleyes]

Funny, thought that’s how you referred to Landman. No, not an attorney, I just read the documents they write and try to figure out what they actually meant. Hahaha. I know you are an attorney, so I threw the “f’n attorney” your way. I do say that quite a bit though.

 

[Allen]

I'll tell you this. If you're trying to get a deed recorded in Burleigh County, your attorney best dot the T's and cross the I's.

Because they look at them here and if it's not keeping with their wishes on the verbiage, they will tell you to do it again. I had that problem a few years ago. I swore a few times.

But yeah, I hear ya Marbleyes. Some of the docs I've seen with legal descriptions just kill me. "a one-third interest in 33.3 acres of the NW1/4,S1/2 Section xx. I went down the rabbit trail on one to learn I was talking about just over an acre's worth of interest in a section. OFFS...

 

[deleted member]

I don't blame you on the cursing marble. We are our own worst enemies sometimes. I prefer not to create work just to make a dollar. But, I am finding out I am in the minority in my profession. Conflict and confusion create Benjamins.

 

[Marbleyes]

Allen, they started measuring with a ruler how many inches of open space you have from the top, bottom and sides and if it doesn’t fit the guidelines, back it goes. This started a few years ago when things slowed down a bit. I just have to laugh when they get that anal then stamp the damn thing right across the body of the document. Haven’t dealt with burleigh though.

Hey, at least you had over an acre, I’m dealing with an 80 acre tract right now where people own 0.08680556 of an acre, with some owning a little bit less and some owning a little more but most owners have under an acre. I’ve got 3 legal sized sheets of paper in my small handwriting with the breakout of this tract. Just finished typing all the owners in a report and now I’m checking leases to see who is held by production because of other lands on the leases and who is open. Then, it’s off to check judgments and lines for these people. After that, off to the next mess to figure out. Hope my next tract is cleaner than this one. Can’t complain though, I’ve been lucky enough to keep working.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't blame you on the cursing marble. We are our own worst enemies sometimes. I prefer not to create work just to make a dollar. But, I am finding out I am in the minority in my profession. Conflict and confusion create Benjamins.

There are some good ones out there that know exactly what they are doing. I just feel bad for the people who paid good money to the attorneys who didn’t know shit about our state laws and cost their clients money and minerals. Sad part is, most didn’t even know their attorneys cost them their minerals until the booms came and it was way too late.

 

[Allen]

I'd probably drink a lot if I had to do this daily.