3.0L Duramax Turbo Diesel

[Tikka280ai]

Wonder is anyone has tuned and deleted one of these yet?

 

[Captain Ahab]

Broken record here but, short trips and low engine/EGT’s (Exhaust Gas Temps) are a killer to anything diesel since ‘07 when DPF’s (Diesel Particulate Filter) were mandated. For someone who lives 20Mi+ out of town and can get the engine up to full operating temp they’re likely to have no issues. Someone who drives in town for weeks at a time without a 20-30Min uninterrupted highway speed drive, the thing will eventually plug from the DPF forward. DPF’s catch all the black soot you used to see from a diesel exhaust pipe. As they catch enough soot the exhaust pressure builds and they tell the computer to increase the EGT’s in order to incinerate the soot. They can’t do the increases EGT’s until your engine is @ full operating temp and that takes 20-30Min of uninterrupted driving @ 50MPH+ IME. The smaller motors might get there more quickly, my experience regarding time to full temp is with 6.0 and 6.7L Fords.

Let your DPF fill up without proper and frequent regenerations (incineration cycles) and you start to have problems w/egr valves and variable vanes on the turbo gumming up.

I consider DEF to be a non-issue. It’s readily available, you just add it when you need it if for some reason you need it prior to an oil change. I only ever fill mine myself when Im going on a long trip, other than that, fill it up with an oil change and you’re good. They’ve got the tank heaters and def exhaust injection algorithms matched up pretty well for cold driving.

Exactly why I'm getting another 6.2. Too many short trips before a long trip.

 

[5575]

I had a 3.0, pulled my 21 ft boat quite easily. And on its own it got crazy milage, up to 34 mpg at 65 mph.
But I should have never joined a 3.0 owners group forum. The amount of issues many were experiencing scared me. That and being black made me never want to get it dirty, so I didnt drive it enough so I got rid of it. I bought myself a low mile 2015 gmc with a 6.2 up in Canada at almost a 3rd of the cost and am very happy with it.
It was a darn nice truck though.

 

[snow]

SD good insight, bunch of fellow diesel die hards are disconnecting DEF.... they claim better mpgs and HP trailering,
Down side is your rolling the the dice if you trade with disconnect...

 

[ice head]

I had a 3.0, pulled my 21 ft boat quite easily. And on its own it got crazy milage, up to 34 mpg at 65 mph.
But I should have never joined a 3.0 owners group forum. The amount of issues many were experiencing scared me. That and being black made me never want to get it dirty, so I didnt drive it enough so I got rid of it. I bought myself a low mile 2015 gmc with a 6.2 up in Canada at almost a 3rd of the cost and am very happy with it.
It was a darn nice truck though.

The 3.0 Duramax issues have been resolved for 2023 models according to an article I read recently.

 

[SDMF]

SD good insight,or bunch of fellow diesel die hards are disconnecting DEF.... rhey claim better mpgs abd HP trailering,
Down side us your rolling the the dice if you trade with disconnect...

Just deleting DEF doesn't really do diddly shit for mileage as you still have a DPF that still needs to be run through re-gen cycles and actually without DEF your mileage gets worse as DEF's whole reason for being is to reduce re-gen cycles.

If you delete DPF/DEF/EGR in any of the big-3 HD pickups you're going to pick up 2-3MPG on the highway @ 75-80MPH like one would drive on 4-lane roads in ND. You don't gain any HP unless you then also tune away from factory settings. Adding HP is a combination of fuel mapping and boost pressure changes which is most generally NOT going to also add MPG.

 

[riverview]

I put a block heater in a Colorado diesel worst job ever.

 

[Allen]

Broken record here but, short trips and low engine/EGT’s (Exhaust Gas Temps) are a killer to anything diesel since ‘07 when DPF’s (Diesel Particulate Filter) were mandated. For someone who lives 20Mi+ out of town and can get the engine up to full operating temp they’re likely to have no issues. Someone who drives in town for weeks at a time without a 20-30Min uninterrupted highway speed drive, the thing will eventually plug from the DPF forward. DPF’s catch all the black soot you used to see from a diesel exhaust pipe. As they catch enough soot the exhaust pressure builds and they tell the computer to increase the EGT’s in order to incinerate the soot. They can’t do the increases EGT’s until your engine is @ full operating temp and that takes 20-30Min of uninterrupted driving @ 50MPH+ IME. The smaller motors might get there more quickly, my experience regarding time to full temp is with 6.0 and 6.7L Fords.

Let your DPF fill up without proper and frequent regenerations (incineration cycles) and you start to have problems w/egr valves and variable vanes on the turbo gumming up.

I consider DEF to be a non-issue. It’s readily available, you just add it when you need it if for some reason you need it prior to an oil change. I only ever fill mine myself when Im going on a long trip, other than that, fill it up with an oil change and you’re good. They’ve got the tank heaters and def exhaust injection algorithms matched up pretty well for cold driving.

Absolutely true. I live 8 miles from work and hate, hate, hate using my truck as a daily driver in the winter. Summer, not so bad...but winter means I barely get good cabin heat before I get to work even if I start it 5-20 minutes in advance.

I can't count the number of times I was on my way home and had to drive by it and go "around the block" for 20 minutes because it just hit the regen cycle. I believe newer trucks have a regen on demand feature. Mine doesn't. grrrr.....

 

[Rizzo]

Just deleting DEF doesn't really do diddly shit for mileage as you still have a DPF that still needs to be run through re-gen cycles and actually without DEF your mileage gets worse as DEF's whole reason for being is to reduce re-gen cycles.

If you delete DPF/DEF/EGR in any of the big-3 HD pickups you're going to pick up 2-3MPG on the highway @ 75-80MPH like one would drive on 4-lane roads in ND. You don't gain any HP unless you then also tune away from factory settings. Adding HP is a combination of fuel mapping and boost pressure changes which is most generally NOT going to also add MPG.

You should stop talking about this because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The amount of garbage information you have spewed is amazing and you sound so convinced that you know what you're talking about.

 

[snow]

You should stop talking about this because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The amount of garbage information you have spewed is amazing and you sound so convinced that you know what you're talking about.

Hahaha, agreed,i don't have a dog in this,i wanted to share information given to me,both GM's 3500HD 6.6 diesel,removing all def equipment, the def tank hanging below truck frame...what were they thinking?

Semi,tractor owners removing def doing the same.,doing so these ppl claim increase in performance as well as fuel economy...good for them,ill stick to my gasoline rig and hope fuel costs come down if we ever get our energy independence back.

FJB is the new man prayer

 

[SDMF]

You should stop talking about this because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The amount of garbage information you have spewed is amazing and you sound so convinced that you know what you're talking about.

By all means, do let us know what's inaccurate.

Eliminating the constriction in a DPF system and breathing clean air by also eliminating EGR will give you some minimal HP gains but if you're looking for say a 10%+ HP boost of a 6.7 F or D or a 6.6 C/G you're going to have to add fuel and/or boost. More fuel + more boost would make more MPG a pretty neat trick.

My '11 6.7L Ford @ 205K Mi was averaging 80-100Mi between re-gen and the average MPG was <15MPG @ 80MPH as a result. I've got 5K hrs and change on the motor and average 19%-21% idle time summer-winter with an average overall speed over the lifetime of ~41MPH. It's mostly road miles on the pickup.

Interesting side note, the car I drive for work traveling 2+ states has also averaged 41MPH over the last 65K Mi. It's not a diesel, but, my driving style and idling habits must not change much between the 2 vehicles. Lots of Interstate @ 80 or other 4-lane @ 75, not very much 55/65 2-lane for either rig.

 

[Kurtr]

You should stop talking about this because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The amount of garbage information you have spewed is amazing and you sound so convinced that you know what you're talking about.

I would also be interested in hearing what is all wrong.

 

[Rizzo]

By all means, do let us know what's inaccurate.

Ok, I will lay it all out so try to follow along. This applies to engines equipped with SCR or as you refer to them as DEF equipped.
Selective Catalytic Reduction=SCR
Diesel Particulate Filter= DPF
Exhaust Gas Recirculation= EGR(this is the biggest killer of fuel mileage)
Diesel Exhaust Fluid= DEF
Nitrogen Oxides= NOx
Engine Control Module= ECM
When the engine is started it does a system check for the turbo vanes to ensure it has full range of motion to control boost pressure, exhaust pressure, exhaust temperature and turbo speed. Then it does a check of the intake throttle valve(yes they have them now) to make sure it can open and close to manipulate intake temperatures. Then it does a check of the EGR system to make sure the valve opens and closes and the pressures are correct. All the while it's monitoring the temperatures and pressures in the aftertreatment (DPF and SCR catalyst). It is also monitoring the NOx at the outlet of the turbo.

Now your in the engine and aftertreatment warmup cycle. This window is where the EGR system is active and the exhaust recirculation valve is allowing exhaust gas to be introduced into the intake stream and burned in the cylinder for NOx reduction since the SCR system is not active which can be due to DEF temp or SCR cat temp or both.

Now a short time later let's say as you drive out of your neighborhood and begin your trip. The SCR system will become active and begin using DEF for NOx reduction and the EGR system becomes mostly inactive until extended idle or very low load conditions occur. The SCR NOx outlet sensor is now being used with the engine NOx outlet sensor and the ECM compares them to make sure NOx destruction is sufficient inside of the SCR catalyst. How the process happens is DEF is injected after the DPF into the exhaust stream as it enters the SCR catalyst where a chemical reaction between the DEF and the metals in the catalyst and turns the NOx into nitrogen and water.

While all of that is going on the DPF has been doing its thing collecting what little bit of not just soot but ash that has been coming out in the exhaust stream. To clear something up with DPF and exhaust temperatures. The engine is able to get temperatures up to 700*f at idle if need be to get things warmed up as fast as possible. How does it do that you might ask. It will change retard fuel injection timing which causes more of the heat to exit into the exhaust stream instead of into the piston. The throttle valve will be partially closed along with the turbo vanes.

Now for regeneration cycles, the engine is in a passive regeneration cycle quite often meaning its able to keep the DPF differential pressure (the inlet and outlet) in check so the dreaded active regeneration cycle isn't needed. They will however need to complete one every so often just to thoroughly "clean the pipes" and make sure the whole system is able to perform the process.(It's programmed into the ECM as a health check. It's not common for this condition to occur but I have seen it a few times). The DPF has to reach a temperature of 1040*f to complete the regeneration or cleaning process and the time is determined by the differential pressure or whatever the engineer that wrote the tuning. How it gets to that temperature differentiates between manufacturers but it needs diesel fuel introduced into the exhaust stream and as it hits the DPF it reacts and burns and inturn cleans.

There is so much that goes into how all of it works together and a lot of different variables as to what happens when. So this is just basic function.

So in terms of "Deleting" and adding HP. The biggest benefit comes from either removal, blocking, or disabling the EGR system. This is the biggest killer of fuel economy. Removing the aftertreatment system helps with the small amount of fuel used during active regeneration, which is pretty minimal. Emissions intact tuning is very common and they are able to disable the EGR function with no adverse effects to the aftertreatment system other than a small increase in DEF usage. Now adding horsepower while increasing economy is entirely possible. Most "tow" tunes the base change is injection timing which uses no more fuel it just increases pressure in the cylinder which makes more power with the same or less fuel.

This is a big deep dark hole and I dont have enough time in the day to go into all of the fine details but hopefully this helps.

 

[Allen Gamble]

I'd caution any deleting of emissions talk on any forum. The EPA has cracked down on many other sites and worked under cover to take down people who were tuning deleted diesel trucks.

That said, @Rizzo is correct on everything he states in the above post and not only is the EGR system the biggest killer of fuel economy, but it's also the biggest killer of longevity in your engine. If I owned a diesel truck that was emissions compliant I'd be damn sure to keep it on the highway and pulling loads as often as possible and would certainly invest in emissions compliant tuning.

 

[Allen]

My 6.4 doesn't have DEF and remains stock at almost 160k miles, but there are a couple of observations I have made over the years. Mileage when looking at long road trips, including a regen cycle is right around 16 mpg. A number of times I've reset the fuel economy calculator upon entering a regen cycle. It has ranged from 4.8-7 mpg while under regen.

Unlike SDMF's 6.7, my 6.4 averages a regen cycle at a little over 300 miles.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Idk about all the above technical info stated, but I would expect the engineers of these 1/2 ton diesels specifically, would have created a vehicle that is reliably operational under all types of driving conditions.

The 4 guys that I know who have them drive them completely different from each other. I haven’t heard of any of them having issues with the way they use them.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

I’ve read a few comments about maintaining them. Yes they need a little more maintenance than a gasser, but fuel based on time of year aside, you’re basically adding DEF from time to time and changing the fuel filter every 3rd oil change.

 

[Petras]

not trying to join the pissing match, just give my personal 1st hand experience. I deleted my 14 6.7l cummins when the DEF tank sending unit went out. was cheaper by about $700 to delete it than it was to replace the sending unit/pump that are apparently an integral unit.

Deleting did a few things for me. My fuel mileage went from 13-14mpg average @ highway speeds to about 19-20mpg under my normal driving conditions/style. Sometimes, if I'm really nice to Betty White she'll show me 22 to 23 mpg.

During the deletion process I had them program a 75hp tune in Betty. The notion that tuning for more power won't give you better fuel efficiency is, in my experience, incorrect. If you go crazy, trying to add 250 or 300 hp then yes, you are less likely to see big gains in fuel economy, but if you are reasonable with the tune you will most definitely see efficiency improvements.... besides all that, 250 to 300 additional HP is not real great on stock components. This is why I opted to not have a display mounted on the dash that would allow me to change the tune. Lock er in at 75hp and leave it. The biggest difference that I saw when deleting/75hp tuning was the elimination of the infamous dead pedal that rams are known for. I went from mashing the pedal and waiting 5 minutes (ok maybe not really 5 minutes..) for the boost to build and then taking off, to on demand throttle response immediately.

I would be hesitant to delete any of these new trucks stricly because of the cost. If I'm not mistaken it's upwards of $10k to delete any of these newer trucks and to me, paying that kind of money to void a warranty just isn't worth it...

Just my .02

 

[MULEDEER]

I own a 22 chevy with the 3.0. I have 26000 miles on it all highway miles I travel for my buiness. Over all mileage with running empty and with a 6.5 x 12 enclosed trailer is around 14 i have gotten 32 runni g empty Much better than any gasser I have owned and I trade every 3 years. I will by another one I generally trade at 70000 miles. For me maintaining is a none issue the Guage tells you when to change oil/fuel filter. The light comes on go to the dealer. I run #1 fuel when cold never had a problem starting been out over night at -28 started right up. At home it is In Heated garage. Personally it has done well for myself

 

[Allen]

https://autos.yahoo.com/tuner-sinister-diesel-fined-1-210000790.html

Interesting article on Sinister getting fined a cool million bucks for selling tuners and delete hardware/software. I'd have to think that eventually the EPA will get down to individual owners of trucks.