30000cfs ???

[Kurtr]

i hope it rises a bunch but not enough to flush the smelt as there was never any chance we were going to flood but the high water made awesome habitat.

 

[Colt45]

3 months of double the previous record release is dereliction of duty. But an independent investigation found no fault in the Corps management of the system................... everything the Corps did was spot on correct. Imagine that........ really hard to believe

 

[Bfishn]

The state voiced their concerns to the COE in January about the lake level and the snow pack and were told by the COE that they had everything under control.

The lake rising 15' or more from Jan - July is not one isolated incident in 65 years it has happened multiple times, It rose 19.5' in 1978, 14.5' in 1993, 15.0' in 1997, 16.9' in 2009, but only 13'8" in 2011 because it topped out. The severity of the 2011 flood was caused by the arrogance and mismanagement by the COE.

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So the lake has risen more than 15' 4 times. In two of those years it started out pretty low meaning it took less water volume per foot and the corp new they had plenty of space so they likely didn't increase outflow accordingly. That brings us to 1997 and 2011, both large water years and yet still only one caused problems....once in 65 years and the river still didn't even hit a top 20 crest in Bismarck.

 

[RustyTackleBox]

My suggestion is to move to the top of a hill and have no basement... don't live in the flood plane if you don't like a wet house

 

[Obi-Wan]

3 months of double the previous record release is dereliction of duty. But an independent investigation found no fault in the Corps management of the system................... everything the Corps did was spot on correct. Imagine that........ really hard to believe

Thanks for proving my point In March as inflows increased the COE releases from Garrison decreased through the end of April.
They knew the snow pack was above normal in January and yet they cut releases in March. Are you talking record releases in the months of June, July, and August .

 

[Allen]

Leaving more than 15' of freeboard for flood control would be # 1 I don't think 15' is enough of a cushion for flood control which was proven in 2011 by the lake going from 40.7 to 54.5 at which it tops out, god only knows how much the lake would have risen if they did not open the gates to 150,000.

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https://www.timetoast.com/timelines/missouri-river-flooding-2011

I think I will just pass. Have a good one, Obi.

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Thanks for proving my point In March as inflows increased the COE releases from Garrison decreased through the end of April.
They knew the snow pack was above normal in January and yet they cut releases in March. Are you talking record releases in the months of June, July, and August .

YES! That is EXACTLY how you use a dam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You use a dam to slow or very temporarily stop the upstream component from contributing to existing downstream problems! Think about it....think....about.....it.....


A dam cannot "stop" the water in perpetuity. Nobody here would be willing to pay the taxes that it would take to build a dam capable of actually stopping water from above ever reaching down below a dam.



I don't mean to be hard on people, for the most part I get the frustration with the Corps, Govt, Cops, teachers, kids, etc.

This shit looks easy from the sidelines. All you need to know about water is that it flows downhill, right?

 

[espringers]

Dam right!

 

[Fisherman25]

As Allen said above, you can't manage a system based on an extreme event that might happen once in a hundred years. They could have had 30' of space that year and we still would have flooded. We will never contain mother nature.

I would consider one flood in 65 years to be pretty good "flood control", it would have been so much worse without the dam. Its not "if" the river will flood again its "when", it might be next year, it might be 100 years. If you cant accept that uncertainty, then its time to move to higher ground.

If you don't like it stay away from the damn river. History will repeat itself, irregardless of what kind of management. If you don't want to flood, move away from the river, simple as that.

 

[raider]

I respectfully disagree.

HEY... there is no place for talk like that on a site like this...

 

[dean nelson]

Thanks for proving my point In March as inflows increased the COE releases from Garrison decreased through the end of April.
They knew the snow pack was above normal in January and yet they cut releases in March. Are you talking record releases in the months of June, July, and August .

Reuced flows during river breakup like they do every year not exactly a shock. I bet you were one of the people bitching in 09 that they were letting out too much water as the river Jamed.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Reuced flows during river breakup like they do every year not exactly a shock. I bet you were one of the people bitching in 09 that they were letting out too much water as the river Jamed.

Are you saying the river wasn't open until the end of April? You do realize that they did back off on the water releases a couple days before the ice jam broke in 09

 

[Achucker]

I know a lot of the release are based on the water coming and going through the system and you guys have a lot of data to support this but I remember years that the lake came close to topping out and the COE would not release because of bird nesting. Another time when things were at it's lowest in the lake and the fish habitat, boat ramps and even certain water supplies were in danger the corp released more water to accommodate barge traffic further downstream. When one decision is made you make make one person happy but piss off a lot of other people. In the words of Ricky Nelson "You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself".

 

[dean nelson]

Are you saying the river wasn't open until the end of April? You do realize that they did back off on the water releases a couple days before the ice jam broke in 09

Backed off hell they went to zero for awile. Simply put the Corp lower outflow every spring till late March or April when they feel confident the river is in open water mode then they dial her up. As someone who likes to fish on the jetty at the bloodhole where a half foot change makes a big difference my friends and i keep a very close watch over it and have become very familiar with the Corps normal SOP. Unfortunately it won't go back to 09 for some reason but here's 10 through now with each spring marked. You get a big drop when the ice clears then a few weeks and they bring it up to normal summer flows....well save 11 that needless to say was and little crazy.

 

[Obi-Wan]

That's the point I am trying to make Operating the dams as normal during a above average local and mountain snow pack is a recipe for disaster. ND officials began alerting the COE in January and voiced their concerns, they did nothing. Todd Sando the local COE told them that their projections were low, they did nothing. As inflows to the lake increased in early March the COE lowered releases. It was not until early May that farhut relized there was a problem. I do not know when the river was ice free in 2011 but I do know that Apple creek was just a little sliver for nearly the entire month of April prior to them cranking up releases in May.

 

[dean nelson]

Your can see it there it's the big steep drop followed immediately by a steep rise as the runoff hit then a drop post runoff and then cranking her back up from there on. If you note the river ran higher then normal from late fall through to ice off so would love to hear where you would have dumped extra water in the river that was iced over and subject to ice jams if you shove to much down her throat. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the Corp God knows they do enough to earn all the shit they get but they had only bad options at that point. Put to much water in her with supersaturated soils post melt meaning any storm could trigger rapid rise to the river they have to stay two days in front of especially just two springs after getting chewed out for running it to high.

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Here's a better look at 09 through 11 and a close look at 11 where it looks like they cranked her back up on may 1st. Thing is they pause during late April mostly because they just got chewed out from 09 and running it too high which they didn't. Also note that the low point in April was still two feet higher then most other years.

 

[Bed Wetter]

today I learned that 3,900 FPS melts the boolitz to the plate @ 300 yds. if the Corp isn't careful, they're going to melt the dam!

 

[dean nelson]

Hell keep shooting the same plate then get some of your money back when you recycle the copper.:;:cheers

 

[Timbuk-2]

"don't live in the flood plane if you don't like a wet house"
Exactly!!!
Pisses me off every time someone suggests that I should help pay for flood control to save the Idiots who live near the river.If they want to live there fine, but there should be no public assistance to protect them from the water.

 

[Hookin8easy]

I'll agree with ya on public funds for flood control, I lived in the bottoms during the 2001 flood south of Bismarck and I'll tell you right now if you were in the county there was nothing, however when I built my house I brought in 265 trucks of fill to build my house up 4 1/2', that's called taking care of your own shit and doing your research. Guess what my house had room for 3 more feet of water, currently live in a different house and do the exact same, for me I'll live in the bottoms the pros outway the cons in my situation. Wouldn't tolerate living on a hill looking at trees though binoculars, 30 mph winds multiple days a week, my insurance rates go up all the time for reshingling due to winds from hill top lovers, nothing I can do about that.

i had neighboring developments coming to my door asking to sign these petitions for flood control and I told them that I'm not saying they can't have it or don't need it but your at the wrong address, I put my money under mine already

 

[dean nelson]

Speaking of fishing g the point don't think it will be an option this year with the tip well out in the water. Looks like all sandbars in the Bismarck run are now sumerged so she should be a good year for the boat dealers fixing lower units.



Nice thing is it's flooding out the low lying areas so that should definitely help the young fish this summer as they grow. It also makes a certain boat ramp usable to larger boats then would normally be the case.