Direct Payments to farmers/ranchers

[Kurtr]

Oh boy....

 

[db-2]

God bless the cow calf man for the beef he makes for me to eat.
for them it's been a way of life. Finally got themselves a new pickup and as I said before I hope it was a dodge as they would keep it for some time.
but pairs are selling in the 1600 to 1800 range. Last batch of 800 lbs steers I seen sold for 1300.
we all have our stories to tell. Cattle man, farmer, business man and those of us on salary
for some life is damn good and some not so good.
hear the story as a kid from parents, grandparents from the 1930s
no rain does hurt big time.
wish all well, but before you feel all our broke, well there not but the cow man with no hay it will be a long winter and wii take years to get back again. Db

 

[Zogman]

Well said DB! :;:thumbsup

 

[watson]

I know this is going to start a shit storm but How easily the past is forgotten. I have both cattle and buffalo and made money left and right the last 3-4 years, but just because I had some extra $ I didn't waste it on $3400 pairs just because that's what they were asking. I paid off bills and put some away, if your bills were to high to pay off then you didn't run a very good program. 15 years ago I saw my $3k buffalo calves drop to under $300 but no one was yelling the sky was falling and no gov't help was offered. I tightened the belt, took a job and pulled through and will do the same thing again. I cannot say the same for SOME farmers, I saw more new houses, machine sheds, shops, lake homes, pickups, side x sides, ice castles and other toys bought during 2010-2014 than ever, and guys paying $250+ cash rent and $8000+ an acre for land when maybe it should have gone to pay down notes and put some away.

 

[gst]

Hoping to hear GSTs thoughts on this, and any other guys in the business.

I read today that NDFU is going to ask for direct payments in addition to crop insurance to help the hard hit guys survive the year, and especially livestock producers since crop insurance doesn't help them at all. Personally, I am for it, I really don't think we need to go back to the 80s again and any money that makes it into their hands filters it's way through the community. Among other reasons I guess, but I am on my stupid phone at the moment and hate trying to type on it.

Just interested in your thoughts either pro or con.

I would just as soon the govt stay out of ranching.

When the govt involves itself in your industry providing payments of most any kind it becomes a snake eating itself by its tail. For every bite gained, you come closer to the end of private industry and free markets.

I have RARELY seen the govt get any of these programs right without some loop hole that can be exploited.

There are people in ag like any other industry that will play the system. Those that figure it out get ahead of those that don;t and to compete you have to choose to either ignore your ideals and make the same choices they are or lose out to higher bids for land, bigger machinery that allows more land to be farmed ect.

Indeed as i have said before these dollars as you say are turned over many times in communities but at what cost. Unfortunately when these programs come up bankers encourage very strongly to enter into them so if one is not at a point where the payments aren;t needed you get pushed to jump in.

Do they help when times are tough....yes. At what cost in the long run.........

 

[Account Deleted]

I'm not defending farmers/ranchers/landowners that willfully made poor choices. But a single family operation is just like any other small business and a freaking TON of small businesses fail all the time. Most within the first few years of start up but they don't get judged as the farmer does. Try not to be so critical of your neighbors my friends. You will never fully know the struggle someone else goes through.

 

[gst]

One can not judge profitablity of agriculture on toy haulers and pickups and homes. In our area many of those that have these things are making more monies on what comes out of the land than what grows on top of it. Oil, Gravel, disposals ect........ Others have inheritances that make the bottom line a bit blacker and some have wives that have good jobs 5 and 6 figures off the farm.

I guess I try not to get too wrapped up in what someone is driving or what their home looks like in passing judgement. I have friends that are millionaires that farm and some that are still putting up hay with 4020's, not everything is as it seems.

The simple reality is one needs 350 to 400 cows to raise a family (college, healthcare ect.).........in good years. You can not put up feed in ND for 400 cows with a 4020 and a dump rake...so 50 more cows to pay for upgrading machinery.

The boom in the cattle market saw ranchers upgrading equipment that badly needed it many times, hard to put some away when a new baler goes for $40,000 +. Bought all the filters air, engine hydraulic, cab ect. for our 4 wheel drive tractor wrote a check for $580 Had ones in the shop from our old 5020 with a price tags on and all of them added up to $42. Ran an old cultivator shovel thru a 30.5 x 32 tire and wrecked it before I saw it and a new one put on was $3300......to replace them all is $35000.

Two years ago the boys bought 40 head of cows we found a deal for running age good cows for $1600 when cows were bringing $2 - 2500.

They had to borrow a portion about 2/3 of the monies. Bankers were borrowing monies left and right to buy expensive cows. Asked the banker we have done business with for 26 years if he had any advice. Gave them some good advice on keeping track of expenses, watching costs ect....

We talked a bit about the costs of cows and where it would stop. He asked me what advice I had given the boys.........I said don;t do business with a banker that will borrow you $2500 to buy a cow..........he laughed then said thats pretty good advice.

 

[Migrator Man]

I can see some assistance going to smaller farmers that do not make the big bucks and that don't have big reserves. We should not be bailing out ranchers that are millionaires that should be able to make it through the hard times. There is no one farmer or rancher too big to fail as someone else will come behind them and take over their operation. This cheap food argument doesn't hold water because a capitalist society should not need to rely on subsidies. I fell bad for those out west and I hope it will turn around next year.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Watson said,

15 years ago I saw my $3k buffalo calves drop to under $300 but no one was yelling the sky was falling and no gov't help was offered.

Yep, I remember that. You guys lost half your producers. Today at $5 dollars hanging weight and $5 dollars per pound live weight for calves, how many "new" producers do you have?

 

[Deerwatcher]

Relatives the age of my kids have new toy haulers, deck boats, and new trucks to pull them. How bad is it really? I am happy for them, but are they in trouble? Can't be or they wouldn't be spending the way they do.

I had a friend farm that way n spend spend spend he is no longer farming

 

[AR-15]

I know a few that need newer homes in Phoenix Arizona

 

[gst]

Relatives the age of my kids have new toy haulers, deck boats, and new trucks to pull them. How bad is it really? I am happy for them, but are they in trouble? Can't be or they wouldn't be spending the way they do.

so then exactly who is ending up getting these tax payer "subsidies" you bitch about?

 

[8andcounting]

Crop prices were terrible last year also.

Yes they were down no doubt , but in lots of the state it was record yields for many crops

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not a farmer but have land and am very Pro farmer ... it's not that bad , but they have a lot on the line every year and one bad year can really screw things up

 

[Walleye202]

Interesting point on taxes. I think longterm, if agriculture had to abide by accrual accounting, everyone would be in MUCH better shape. Lots of bad decisions were made by producers trying to avoid taxes during the good years, now it is coming back to bite some real bad on a few down years.

 

[espringers]

This ^^^^ is a great point

 

[Lungdeflator]

Let me say I don't know the first thing about hay or what cows eat or what is good for them.
Not saying that everybody does it or everybody has the opportunity to, but driving around west of Minot and ND in general, I see a TON of wasted hay bales. Are there not options to preserve or save these bales? Shrink wrapping or something of the like?

It would be the equivalent of putting money in the bank. Have a good year with a lot of hay and not much need through the winter, save the bales and set yourself up for a bad winter or a dry year.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Interesting point on taxes. I think longterm, if agriculture had to abide by accrual accounting, everyone would be in MUCH better shape. Lots of bad decisions were made by producers trying to avoid taxes during the good years, now it is coming back to bite some real bad on a few down years.

Trying to avoid taxes during the good years sounds like my cousin purchasing the biggest combine John Deer makes at Christmas. Not much need that time of year, but he said if he didn't buy it then the bast(**&^ds in Washington would get it. He wasn't afraid of paying some taxes he was afraid of paying any taxes.

 

[espringers]

It loses its nutritional value over time.

 

[NDSportsman]

I will say I feel bad for ranchers more so then crop farmers. Ranching is a 24/7/365 gig and definitely slim margins most years. Rather then direct payments I'd like to see more assistance for feeding and watering programs to get them thru severe drought situations. I'm sure they would appreciate that more as well.

 

[Lungdeflator]

But but but all these ranchers get gratis tags and can rifle hunt deer every year so life can't be that bad right??
#$%^&> :;:stirthepot