House Bill 1151- Prohibiting baiting bans

[NDSportsman]

Can someone tell me something about the thingys?




This is a simple question for me. Do we really want the legislature to use such an extreme measure to stamp out a policy otherwise left entrusted to hired professionals in the executive branch? I don't think I'd support something like this on any topic...healthcare, agricultural practices, etc. Regardless of my feelings on hunting over bait, this is a very bad precedent.

You don't like the policies of NDGF? Well, just remember that we already have controls on them. They respond accordingly to the Governor since they fall under the executive branch of the State. This, in some fashion, sets up a showdown between the governor's authority and the legislature, and to some extent, the willingness of the Governor to listen to the NDGF experts. Just remember...any ban on hunting over bait is in the Governor's signed proclamation.

I don't like it either but really what choice do citizens have at this point. They have refused to listen to the public and it's pretty obvious the majority of the public disagrees with their stance here. Do we just continue to let them run roughshod over the majority's wishes??

 

[risingsun]

Last post here then..

Santos?

 

[guywhofishes]

This is a simple question for me. Do we really want the legislature to use such an extreme measure to stamp out a policy otherwise left entrusted to hired professionals in the executive branch? I don't think I'd support something like this on any topic...healthcare, agricultural practices, etc.

Aaaarrrgggg

How about forced masking (useless), long term shutdowns (destructive), destruction of countless businesses, crippling additions to national debt, inflation, redefining "vaccination" and forced mRNA gene therapy that instructs your cells to make a toxin? WTF????

I can't believe, after all we've seen these "experts" do in the last several years in the name of "we have to do something" people are still willing to yield authority to people based solely on the premise that they're the experts and they're duty bound.

No the #### they are not!!!!!

 

[guywhofishes]

I don't like it either but really what choice do citizens have at this point. They have refused to listen to the public and it's pretty obvious the majority of the public disagrees with their stance here. Do we just continue to let them run roughshod over the majority's wishes??

Just be patient. The Governor will certainly step in and back the little guys over the bureaucracy Sportsman.

 

[bravo]

How the hell is legislators writing laws any different? It is literally yielding authority (more authority, in fact since it will be a LAW not a regulation) to someone who is less qualified to make those decisions. Comparing it to the covid response is sensationalist at best. The economy and your personal health are not at risk. How many of you actually went to the advisory board meetings and plead your case, which is when you could actually get something done? I just wish you could see past the "deer gather regardless" and realize this is not what the opposition is about. See the forest for the trees and whatnot.

This is the last time i'm going to chime in on this subject. I'll leave you with this: Careful who you are getting into bed with. "Guides", GST and the like, Daryl lies of the NDFB, who's own bylaws are blatantly anti-hunter and anti-conservation. You need to ask yourself why they want to see this passed so badly. Hope you all have a great day, chat with you on other threads.

 

[Slappy]

Can someone tell me something about the thingys?




This is a simple question for me. Do we really want the legislature to use such an extreme measure to stamp out a policy otherwise left entrusted to hired professionals in the executive branch? I don't think I'd support something like this on any topic...healthcare, agricultural practices, etc. Regardless of my feelings on hunting over bait, this is a very bad precedent.

You don't like the policies of NDGF? Well, just remember that we already have controls on them. They respond accordingly to the Governor since they fall under the executive branch of the State. This, in some fashion, sets up a showdown between the governor's authority and the legislature, and to some extent, the willingness of the Governor to listen to the NDGF experts. Just remember...any ban on hunting over bait is in the Governor's signed proclamation.

I agree with you it is dangerous and bad precedent, except we had to do exactly this to stop forced injections, vaccine passports, etc. There are many parallels between idiotic, un-American response to COVID and CWD.

Remember when NDGF required leaving deer carcasses (and the prions) in the field rather than allowing transport to dispose in a landfill? Many of us "non experts" correctly said that was bad policy. Kudos to NDGF for changing position on this, but they were wrong. The "experts" are not infallible.

What other recourse is there when "the experts" are wrong and it infringes on citizen rights? Would NDGF agree to public debate of the data and conclusions? The brief comment period they allow at advisory board meetings does not count. What about binding arbitration in a neutral forum?

 

[guywhofishes]

How the hell is legislators writing laws any different? It is literally yielding authority (more authority, in fact since it will be a LAW not a regulation) to someone who is less qualified to make those decisions. Comparing it to the covid response is sensationalist at best. The economy and your personal health are not at risk. How many of you actually went to the advisory board meetings and plead your case, which is when you could actually get something done? I just wish you could see past the "deer gather regardless" and realize this is not what the opposition is about. See the forest for the trees and whatnot.

This is the last time i'm going to chime in on this subject. I'll leave you with this: Careful who you are getting into bed with. "Guides", GST and the like, Daryl lies of the NDFB, who's own bylaws are blatantly anti-hunter and anti-conservation. You need to ask yourself why they want to see this passed so badly. Hope you all have a great day, chat with you on other threads.

My beef is purely with the mindset of "they're the experts so they should decide for all of us" - regardless of how strongly we feel they're not following the scientific method.

Once you defer to the experts based solely on their perceived role/position/title you're following dogma (like the pope being infallible or Fauci's opinion literally representing science).

The comparison between the two is SPOT ON and not one bit sensationalistic IMO. Both cases involve people entrusting experts to make decisions not based on science - but politics and fear of needing to do something regardless of the efficacy or unintended consequences.

 

[risingsun]

Experts: The internet creates millions of them every day.

 

[guywhofishes]

Just wanted to remind all of you that there are now countless thousands of high paid experts in equity and diversity.

PhD's, etc.

Some of them have probably been awarded national medals of honor, Nobel prizes, etc.

Trust them. They have an important job to do. Live with their choices for your life - it's part of being a member of society.

 

[wjschmaltz]

I will try to shed a different light I guess.

Last summer, the Federal Subsistence Board shut down millions of acres of land to caribou hunting by nonlocals in northwest Alaska. The same thing has happened with sheep in central AK and deer in southeast AK. Both you and me are now locked out of these areas. In every instance where this overreach has taken place, the ADFG has strongly opposed these shut downs based on their population models. Anecdotal evidence from locals in the area claimed the models were flawed and that the ADFG data could not be trusted. Their voice was the loudest, they threw a fit, and used a work around through the Federal Subsistence Board to overrule the ADFG and get their way. Guides and transporters that flew the area daily all had a very good grasp of these populations and were all against the closure and stood behind the ADFG, as well as every single conservation org. The shutdowns eliminated the take of approximately 600 caribou (ONLY BULLS) per year from a herd of 300,000. These closures will become more and more common for more and more species, and not just in Alaska.

Are you OK with management in this way? If not, what is your argument against it? You've already established that the ADFG can't be trusted, so how would you fight something like this? Serious question.

How would you go about fighting the bear baiting closure the federal government is about to impose on Alaska while the biologists ADFG are busy fighting for it? At some point, you're arguing with yourself.

 

[Kurtr]

I will try to shed a different light I guess.

Last summer, the Federal Subsistence Board shut down millions of acres of land to caribou hunting by nonlocals in northwest Alaska. The same thing has happened with sheep in central AK and deer in southeast AK. Both you and me are now locked out of these areas. In every instance where this overreach has taken place, the ADFG has strongly opposed these shut downs based on their population models. Anecdotal evidence from locals in the area claimed the models were flawed and that the ADFG data could not be trusted. Their voice was the loudest, they threw a fit, and used a work around through the Federal Subsistence Board to overrule the ADFG and get their way. Guides and transporters that flew the area daily all had a very good grasp of these populations and were all against the closure and stood behind the ADFG, as well as every single conservation org. The shutdowns eliminated the take of approximately 600 caribou (ONLY BULLS) per year from a herd of 300,000. These closures will become more and more common for more and more species, and not just in Alaska.

Are you OK with management in this way? If not, what is your argument against it? You've already established that the ADFG can't be trusted, so how would you fight something like this? Serious question.

How would you go about fighting the bear baiting closure the federal government is about to impose on Alaska while the biologists ADFG are busy fighting for it? At some point, you're arguing with yourself.

Each topic can be looked at and evaluated on its own merits. Its part of the problem with politics of today you are either all one way or all another. Its like conservation orgs depending on which one i might support all, some or none of there values but im not throwing the baby out with the bath water just because i disagree on one topic. I feel they have missed on this not that it matters one way or another but all this money nation wide being spent on cwd could be used for much better conservation options.

 

[jdinny]

Each topic can be looked at and evaluated on its own merits. Its part of the problem with politics of today you are either all one way or all another. Its like conservation orgs depending on which one i might support all, some or none of there values but im not throwing the baby out with the bath water just because i disagree on one topic. I feel they have missed on this not that it matters one way or another but all this money nation wide being spent on cwd could be used for much better conservation options.

Winner winner chicken dinner. Just think if there was actual habitat on the ND landscape and the deer didn’t need to congregate as early or as many to survive a winter…. What a thought … nah fk it ban baiting that’s easier

 

[FightingSioux]

BCHA got RMEF and Sportsman’s Congress to come out against the bill.

 

[FightingSioux]

My coworker had his WY mule deer come back positive this year. The animal had no signs of CWD but got it tested while being checked at a checkpoint. He said it’s already in the freezer back from the processor so he’s eating it anyways

 

[wct12]

Can someone tell me something about the thingys?




This is a simple question for me. Do we really want the legislature to use such an extreme measure to stamp out a policy otherwise left entrusted to hired professionals in the executive branch? I don't think I'd support something like this on any topic...healthcare, agricultural practices, etc. Regardless of my feelings on hunting over bait, this is a very bad precedent.

You don't like the policies of NDGF? Well, just remember that we already have controls on them. They respond accordingly to the Governor since they fall under the executive branch of the State. This, in some fashion, sets up a showdown between the governor's authority and the legislature, and to some extent, the willingness of the Governor to listen to the NDGF experts. Just remember...any ban on hunting over bait is in the Governor's signed proclamation.

We the people basically have 0 saw over what the game and fish department does and says.. they host "advisory board meetings" and I don't think there's been a single change from the department on input from the concerned citizens.. specifically not on the CWD side.

I'm the last person on here that wants to see more rules and regulations, let alone government regulating another government agency.. but the game and fish needs some form of accountability, and this is currently how it can be done. You can not vote a new department head, its an appointed position. When the governors office was called by concerned citizens when the baiting restrictions were implemented in there unit and they wanted him to hold off on signing the CWD proclamation in, there wasn't even a return call from his office.. this is the way we can do it. The game and fish tried a baiting ban through the legislature twice in the past, both failed.. Now the people are trying to overturn something written into the proclamation the year AFTER their legislative attempt was voted down for the second time.

 

[wct12]

How the hell is legislators writing laws any different? It is literally yielding authority (more authority, in fact since it will be a LAW not a regulation) to someone who is less qualified to make those decisions. Comparing it to the covid response is sensationalist at best. The economy and your personal health are not at risk. How many of you actually went to the advisory board meetings and plead your case, which is when you could actually get something done? I just wish you could see past the "deer gather regardless" and realize this is not what the opposition is about. See the forest for the trees and whatnot.

This is the last time i'm going to chime in on this subject. I'll leave you with this: Careful who you are getting into bed with. "Guides", GST and the like, Daryl lies of the NDFB, who's own bylaws are blatantly anti-hunter and anti-conservation. You need to ask yourself why they want to see this passed so badly. Hope you all have a great day, chat with you on other threads.

I'm glad you ignored my response to you earlier about why my dad is so involved in this bill and decided to call him out again here.. We've been to advisory board meetings, we've pleaded our case. In Minot we got met with straight hostility and condescending responses from the State Wildlife vet when asking questions about prion related disease in livestock after he moved the topic to Wild Cow Disease and Scrappies.. It was bad enough a neutral party in the audience mentioned that it was not the way to be responding in meetings.
We went to their public CWD meetings in minot.. it was a closed setting meeting where questions were not allowed during the presentation, and when asked afterwards they could not be in a group setting, instead they had to be 1 on 1.

There has been 0 response from the game and fish department. So far it has been their way or the highway..

 

[jdinny]

I said it once I’ll say it again. It has nothing to do with anything we are arguing about on line. This along with ANS is the gravy train for the NDGF from the federal govt they will do as they wish to make the monies continue

 

[risingsun]

The apple is not falling far from the tree if it indeed is not the tree.

 

[wct12]

The apple is not falling far from the tree if it indeed is not the tree.

Better be careful, the game and fish might think you're baiting if the apple is to far from that tree..

Man.. you are having a hard time believing it's really not him.. if you would like to check the testimonies submitted tomorrow morning or watch the oral testimonies given, you'll see me, Wyatt Thompson, standing down there tomorrow morning talking many of the points that I've discussed in here. Or heck, check out my Facebook page if ya think I'm not very actively involved in this bill. I think you might change your mind.

 

[Devildogg]

Is there going to be a live link to watch tomorrow??