House Bill 1151- Prohibiting baiting bans

guywhofishes

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Even if CWD can be managed (debatable), the bait ban exclusion from NDGF’s overall management plan would limit just one relatively tiny portion of the entire theoretical transmission pathway.

Nobody’s tying their hands from reducing transmission in the other ways. (carcass transport etc)
 


guywhofishes

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BHA: “While we do not have a stance regarding baiting ethics,”…

I don’t believe that for a second.
 

guywhofishes

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I’d like to see the BHA defense of banning scents in particular.

“As used herein, bait includes grain, seed, mineral, salt, fruit, vegetable nut, hay, any naturally derived scent or lure (e.g. urine), or natural or manufactured food placed by an individual.”
 


guywhofishes

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Bait makes the kill shot dramatically easier to deliver compared to deer drives, etc.

I suspect that the majority of bait site kills are one/done. I wonder how baiting stacks up against non-baiting kill attempts with respect to conservation of the resource (how many deer are killed but never recovered while baiting vs non-baiting).

BTW, I’ve shot/killed only one deer that was utilizing bait (archery - quick and humane kill at 10yd). I’m not one to rely on one approach to hunting deer, so don’t misconstrue my advocacy for baiting as selfishness. I just don’t see how making baiting illegal is necessary or productive for “management” of CWD.

Deer naturally interact so much that baiting is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I think NDGF agrees with this, demonstrated by the fact that they encourage deer congregation at wildlife management areas on a large scale (food plots). I support their planting food plots 100%…. but if every bit of contact must be discouraged as BHA and NDGF claim, then they’re being hypocrites not letting the individual with limited resources use bait while they support creating conditions where deer “unnaturally” congregate.
 

guywhofishes

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The pros of baiting are rarely discussed in their defense of bait bans, but the pros are significant. That’s what makes me fairly outspoken on this issue. They won’t have an honest/open discussion about it in their arguments.

Just like the COVID debacle. Once the mRNA jab was chosen as the lone solution, all dissenters and alternatives were deemed bad/dangerous because they went against the groupthink.
 

bravo

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I just think it’s very important to question why Fritz, Gabe, and the hunter hating lot at the NDFB are so strongly supporting this bill. It has little to do with the ability to use bait.

I am all for making the G&F be transparent in their studies and planning. I also think classifying an attractant like Tinks as “bait” and banning it to combat CWD is not only dumb, but is the type of thing that breeds distrust.
 
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wct12

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I'm just an outsider looking in, but I'm kind of appalled at the comments on this thread. CWD argument aside, I never knew baiting was so critical to killing deer.
Some of the biggest backers of this bill are organizations that help disabled hunters have the ability to go into the field and hunt.

A bait pile definitely isn't the only way to kill a deer, but can be critical in the start of a youth into the archery world. The interaction they can have with wildlife in their very limited time (sports, school, etc) can be very crucial to keep them entertained and continuing with it in the future. Squirrels, pheasants, and other wildlife being in view and interacting with each other can teach a lot to a youngster about wildlife and their natural interactions that happen away from the bait pile also.

Not only that, but it also allows the youth hunter the ability to know the yardage an animal is at, along with hoping the animals gives a longer chance at a shot so they can make a calmed down, clean shot and not rush things.

Its not absolutely critical, but is a great tool to have in the tool box.
 


NPO_Aaron

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I am going to be testifying for this bill and I want to tell you why.

"Honestly, I'm not sure if baiting has an effect or not, but if things get bad, we need to say we did something.". That is a quote from a conversation I had with one of the game and fish people after an advisory board meeting.

Most of you guys know that I am heavily involved with a group called Prairie Grit Adaptive Sports. Our mission is to provide sporting experiences for people with physical and mental disabilities. My role specifically is within our hunting and fishing branch. Every year we provide a multitude of different hunts from antelope in Wyoming, bear in Manitoba and whitetail deer and turkey throughout North Dakota.

We rely heavily on the ability to bait for deer. In fact, we lost a great adaptive hunting spot last year due to one of our units being shut down.

I've seen so many people respond: "if you have to bait, you aren't a real hunter.". Well, in our case we can't necessarily spot and stalk with someone who cannot use their legs. We can't climb a tree with someone who has a degenerative neurologic disease. Do you know what it takes to go to the bathroom if you are in a wheelchair? I'll give you a small amount of insight, everything we do takes a significant amount of work and preparation. We cannot go to the deer, all we can do is try to get the deer to us. "You're not a real hunter" is an arrogant thing to say when we are all one accident or one diagnosis away from completely losing something that we not only love, but something that is a core part of who we are.

However, we are all sportsmen and we care about the deer herd. We have shown up and asked the questions. We've begged for proof that what they are saying is the truth, because the unintended consequence of "having to say we did something" is making archery hunting unaccessible to an entire group of people who we as outdoorsmen should be trying to include to the best of our ability. They won't answer. They cannot show evidence. And I am not willing to let a tool that we rely on for our group to be taken away so "in case" something happens, someone can cover their ass.

I've been to a meeting discussing this issue and the bill and have raised the question, "if the game and fish could show empirical evidence that baiting bans decrease the spread, or that baiting increases the spread, would we change our mind?" The answer has always been yes. All we are told is that we should "leave the biology to the biologists". Well, if they know so well they could easily put us in our place, correct? Prove it to us and we will let it be, otherwise I am going to fight for these guys.



 

fireone

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I am going to be testifying for this bill and I want to tell you why.

"Honestly, I'm not sure if baiting has an effect or not, but if things get bad, we need to say we did something.". That is a quote from a conversation I had with one of the game and fish people after an advisory board meeting.

Most of you guys know that I am heavily involved with a group called Prairie Grit Adaptive Sports. Our mission is to provide sporting experiences for people with physical and mental disabilities. My role specifically is within our hunting and fishing branch. Every year we provide a multitude of different hunts from antelope in Wyoming, bear in Manitoba and whitetail deer and turkey throughout North Dakota.

We rely heavily on the ability to bait for deer. In fact, we lost a great adaptive hunting spot last year due to one of our units being shut down.

I've seen so many people respond: "if you have to bait, you aren't a real hunter.". Well, in our case we can't necessarily spot and stalk with someone who cannot use their legs. We can't climb a tree with someone who has a degenerative neurologic disease. Do you know what it takes to go to the bathroom if you are in a wheelchair? I'll give you a small amount of insight, everything we do takes a significant amount of work and preparation. We cannot go to the deer, all we can do is try to get the deer to us. "You're not a real hunter" is an arrogant thing to say when we are all one accident or one diagnosis away from completely losing something that we not only love, but something that is a core part of who we are.

However, we are all sportsmen and we care about the deer herd. We have shown up and asked the questions. We've begged for proof that what they are saying is the truth, because the unintended consequence of "having to say we did something" is making archery hunting unaccessible to an entire group of people who we as outdoorsmen should be trying to include to the best of our ability. They won't answer. They cannot show evidence. And I am not willing to let a tool that we rely on for our group to be taken away so "in case" something happens, someone can cover their ass.

I've been to a meeting discussing this issue and the bill and have raised the question, "if the game and fish could show empirical evidence that baiting bans decrease the spread, or that baiting increases the spread, would we change our mind?" The answer has always been yes. All we are told is that we should "leave the biology to the biologists". Well, if they know so well they could easily put us in our place, correct? Prove it to us and we will let it be, otherwise I am going to fight for these guys.




Might it be possible for an exemption of some kind to allow your activity? A certain # of permits that could only be used by your org.
 

Lycanthrope

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Id like to see baiting allowed, but set reasonable limits. Maybe you cannot put down more than 1 gallon total volume / day or something, enough to draw a few animals in, without pulling in all the deer from a 5 mile radius for guides to exploit....
 

Kurtr

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Id like to see baiting allowed, but set reasonable limits. Maybe you cannot put down more than 1 gallon total volume / day or something, enough to draw a few animals in, without pulling in all the deer from a 5 mile radius for guides to exploit....
How would you regulate that. Unless you can view some one and measure before they put it out that would be an enforcement night mare.
 


db-2

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I have feeders that hold a lot more than one gallon and most of the time one gallon will only last one day. Plus, I spent around $2,000 this year on grain plus hay and never took the bow off the wall. Have 6 plot areas with feed on 3 of them. The neighbors also feed so they keep their deer at their sites.
A herd of 150 elk moved in and that ended the feeding at that spot. (And i did have 3 different hunters come up to harvest them rodents at that spot)

Put two alfalfa bales out last week and they lasted two days once the moose came again.
I feed for a lot of different reason than to harvest a deer.
I cannot believe all the jackrabbits i have coming up alone with a steady supply of pheasants. Most of the deer moved to town after the storm so i am feeding the pheasants and rabbits. A friend stated it has been a long time since he seen this many rabbits when he was combining. It has been good for all besides the deer. Not easy to get to these spots anymore, use a tract side by side. db

Never hunted pheasants but maybe find the old spotlight and give rabbits a try again. It .was fun in the old days
 
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Lycanthrope

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How would you regulate that. Unless you can view some one and measure before they put it out that would be an enforcement night mare.
Just like the majority of our game laws, most rely on self enforcement, its pretty easy to determine if a pile of corn would fit into a 1 gallon bucket, or apples or whatever else, most people breaking the law would likely grossly exceed the limit, I wouldnt expect a warden to fine someone for using 1 gallon and 2 oz of corn instead of just one gallon. How would you suggest allowing baiting, but limiting the amount of bait you can use? Really the only argument against baiting is the contact between animals it promotes, and the only way to allow it while reducing that contact is to limit the amount of bait, as far as I can tell at least. Please share better ideas tho, Im open minded.
 

Lycanthrope

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I have feeders that hold a lot more than one gallon and most of the time one gallon will only last one day. Plus, I spent around $2,000 this year on grain plus hay and never took the bow off the wall. Have 6 plot areas with feed on 3 of them. The neighbors also feed so they keep their deer at their sites.
A herd of 150 elk moved in and that ended the feeding at that spot. (And i did have 3 different hunters come up to harvest them rodents at that spot)

Put two alfalfa bales out last week and they lasted two days once the moose came again.
I feed for a lot of different reason than to harvest a deer.
I cannot believe all the jackrabbits i have coming up alone with a steady supply of pheasants. Most of the deer moved to town after the storm so i am feeding the pheasants and rabbits. A friend stated it has been a long time since he seen this many rabbits when he was combining. It has been good for all besides the deer. Not easy to get to these spots anymore, use a tract side by side. db

Never hunted pheasants but maybe find the old spotlight and give rabbits a try again. It .was fun in the old days
Feeding is very different than baiting, there are no restrictions on feeding now and I dont think it would be possible to create them easily in a largely agricultural state. Also all the food in your feeders isnt accessible to game at once. It wouldnt be too hard to calibrate your feeders to only dispense 1 gallon of corn or whatever / day would it, during hunting season? The feeders Ive used in the past were pretty easy to set up.
 

Kurtr

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Just like the majority of our game laws, most rely on self enforcement, its pretty easy to determine if a pile of corn would fit into a 1 gallon bucket, or apples or whatever else, most people breaking the law would likely grossly exceed the limit, I wouldnt expect a warden to fine someone for using 1 gallon and 2 oz of corn instead of just one gallon. How would you suggest allowing baiting, but limiting the amount of bait you can use? Really the only argument against baiting is the contact between animals it promotes, and the only way to allow it while reducing that contact is to limit the amount of bait, as far as I can tell at least. Please share better ideas tho, Im open minded.
I dont think there is a way to limit it. Its either you have baiting or you dont.
 

Freedom

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I dont think there is a way to limit it. Its either you have baiting or you dont.
WI has a two gallon limit for both hunting and feeding in areas where they still allow it. Heard of DNR there doing flyovers and ticketing lots of folks for feeding too much corn. Probably a few other states if you look around. Don't really agree with it but it's already being done
 


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