Long Term Care coverage

KDM

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1st Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Exodus 20:12 (The 5th Commandment) Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

I'll be my father and mothers long term care coverage as I'm supposed to be. Don't give a hoot about asset protection.
 


db-2

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KDM:
More power to you and I commend you for what you plan.

I remember my one grandfather being taken care of by more than one of his kids ( his wife die earlier in life). My mother had to do things to care for her father-in-law that I feel most today would not. When I brought my mother to our home for a short stay my wife did things for her that I was not comfortable doing.
Yesterday this is how a lot of old people where taken care of but not the norm for today.
Be that as it may be and for whatever reason I understand those who will not take care of their parents and like i said I do commend you for what you plan.
And there maybe things that you will not be able to do or are unable to do for your parents in your home. As a parent I do not want or expect one of my kids to have to take care of us when I know what that care can and may or will consist of.
One being bedridden may require 100% of your attention. So I will not judge either way on this. Yes I feel guilty about putting my parents in a nursing home and then trying to protect some of their assets. But I would do the same again. No way they could take care of each other (mind was hurt for both and mom's body was shot) and for dad it would of been better if he had passed away ten years sooner. Needed the chemical arrest to control the anger. db
 

Davey Crockett

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the nursing home that I am familiar with is struggling financially.


db, I don't know how they can be but I'm not in that business so it surly might be possible. To be a resident cost over $ 6,000 per month per patient, they use the residents assets and savings until that is depleted then they use the patients retirement and SS income plus state and Federal funding to cover the rest. I'm not sure if there is any additional federal funding for Nursing homes or not or not but one thing I am almost positive about is that nursing homes always get paid no matter what.

We took care of my Mom and Dad as long as we possibly could, We were happy to do it. My Dad passed away and we eventually moved My mom into our house when I "condemned" her furnace and chimney . Then she eventually got an apartment and a few years ago the Dr told us we can no longer provide the necessary care she needed so into a nursing home she went. She is doing very well there and she plans to live to be 100 and we feel very fortunate to have a long term care facility that can take good care of her.

Long life story short, She was born in 1920 and worked off the farm all her life and milked cows. She is a "notch" baby with a smaller than normal SS check because of the Gov. screw up. I don't see any way possible that she could have afforded nursing home insurance above and beyond health insurance once she retired.

Insurance Insurance Insurance what a monster. My bride and I manage to afford health insurance, Dental insurance, Cancer insurance , Life insurance , A roof over our head with insurance , A vehicle to drive with insurance and a couple toys with insurance and still eat I am very happy and feel fortunate to have assets and insurance but I also have a budget and I have to make cuts somewhere, There will be no nursing home insurance in our future unless something changes.
Those that can afford it count your blessings.

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This is worth reading.


https://www.nd.gov/ndins/consumers/longtermcare/

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https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...will-health-care-power-of-attorney-31894.html
 

db-2

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The one reason it struggles is the rules the state puts on them and the main rule for now is how the state determines their budget for the coming year based on how they did last year. The nursing homes in short are not allow to show a profit last year for determining next year's budget and if they have been able to cut expenses, guess what they must cut for next year also. Not allow to build up any cash. Business can not survive that way. db
 

KDM

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I re-certified as a CNA a year or so ago and it took 2 weeks and $200. I refreshed my skills about pressure sore care, exterior appliance care (cath, stint, and colostomy stuff), and other general elderly care. With some more training I could give meds, simple shots, and probably wound care. It's NOT that difficult. Besides the biblical directives, I figure they took care of me for 17 years, so now it's time to pay that back. I've already looked into free hospital beds, wheel chairs, etc. so when the time comes that they might need that stuff, I won't be caught flat footed. 6K a month is RIDICULOUS!!!!!
 


3Roosters

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No offense, but what if it is YOU who may need the care before your folks? Life happens, things do not always go as planned, no matter how much planning. Same with the argument that I will just have them pull the plug versus laying in a nursing home 24/7. Well..what if the ole ticker is as good as a 30 yr old and pulling the plug doesn't do what it was supposed to do. Perhaps the mind/brain is the issue. I think we all have many many examples of people we know in nursing homes whose hearts are just fine, yet for one reason or another..they need assistance with their activities of daily living. I am sure most of us would rather tip over and die promptly at a time of our choosing without having to burden our loved ones...not sure burden is the right word..but I used it. Kids nowadays live all over the U.S. so having kids keep care of us isn't always an option...and perhaps they are unable to for other reasons. I also agree with getting living wills. Get your stuff in order so your next of kin isn't left guessing or assuming or the State determining this or that.
 

martinslanding

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This is a tough one…LTC is like any other insurance you pay out the nose but if you need it you’re glad you did.
Kind of dealing with this now as Dad is getting up in age and not sure how much longer he can live on his own, of course he does not want to be a “burden” but at some point the child becomes the parent. It’s not always easy dealing with family. Also have another family member whose husband had a stroke in his late 40’s he’s now pushing 60 and declining and while his insurance was good so far it stops at age 65…then what?

I don’t have the answer for this but the best advice I can give is definitely do some kind of financial planning the younger the better…at least there will be some options, you might not like them but they are options
 

Lycanthrope

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Your parents cared for you when you were helpless, shouldnt you do the same for them?
 

db-2

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Yes they brought me into this world, thanks. They fed me, change my diapers and all that stuff.
Right or wrong I do view that differently than one taking care of their parents when they need that same help.
At least with a kid one should be able to see a light at the end of the tunnel with the care being less as the days pass.
If you decided to have a kid it is what one needs to do. If you decided to have a parent I am not sure if that same thing should be expect of you.
So the guilt comes in now (big time on my mother).
Maybe caring for them by putting them in the home is the easy way out. But it is the way it is and for most, the child will not take care of their parents the way the parent took care of the kid and nor would I expect that and for those that do, God Bless.

KDM, yes there has to be a cheaper way to take care of those that need it. Not sure what it cost me to take care of 5 kids until they where on there own but not 6000/month. There never was that much monies (maybe if I started adding it up, no as my job today does not bring 6000 monies in a month let along for five). db
 

FishinRN

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Working in the healthcare field, although as far away from long term care as possible, I can provide a little insight here. First off our system is ever changing and advancements and focus on preventative care have changed many dynamics. The likelihood of living longer only continues to increase and effective treatment for previously terminal conditions is commonplace. Fortunately modern treatment of specifically strokes and orthopedic injuries has greatly decreased both morbidity and mortality. Bottom line there is far less incidence of premature death from "the big one" or other unknown disease processes.

My best advice is learn about and prepare for potential disease processes, especially the ones you may be predisposed to whether genetically or for to lifestyle. I highly recommend advanced directives providing your own specific wishes of care decided upon while of sound mind and good health, and share your wishes with loved ones. Advanced directives are bent and changed in the hospital when next of kin wants someone saved when they are unable to speak for themselves. I see people making this mistake regularly, being the driver of your own healthcare is of utmost importance.

In regards to morbidity of many chronic conditions, I feel our system does a poor job of explaining at times just how long of a road recovery may be and at times how unlikely a meaningful recovery may be. One has to ask themselves filing term immobility or substantial loss of meaningful cognition is something you would want to live with? I don't want to oversimplify this as obviously there are many conditions such as trauma and accidents that don't afford us these options.

This brings us to the actual nursing home, bottom line the people in them today are far more disabled than in the past. What i mean by this is it takes far more disability to be there, far more people end up in some degree of assisted living or will qualify for a short stay for rehab but ultimately will end up back at home, many of which will require significant assistance with every portion of daily life.

Those who think nursing homes are way overpriced need to take a second look at how much work is really required to provide around the clock care of someone. Take a peak at a classified ads and see the need for help in these places whom by the way pay very well even more so than acute care hospitals. There is probably no better place for on the job injury due to providing total cares and transferring people who are completely non weight bearing and since this is America likely significantly overweight.

I think it is quite honorable for those who intend to care for loved ones in need but underestimate the work and equipment required to adequately do so, not to mention giving up so much of your own golden years assuming you yourself are even physically called of doing so. I believe another component that goes undisclosed if the memory a person really wants to have of a loved one includes providing total cares for them and risk possibly resenting them for that sacrifice.

In regards to the actual coverage, I would be incredibly leary of what claims they will actually pay out and whose decision is it when one is of the capacity to actually require the long term care facility. It would certainly be unfortunate to have 20 years of significant morbidity requiring lots of assistance but never actually qualifying for a claim. As with all insurance everyone has a different view of what risk/liability they want to burden, to me there is far better options particularly for the younger generations.
 


Davey Crockett

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Good post fishinRN .



Your parents cared for you when you were helpless, shouldnt you do the same for them?


Yes,As much as you can but you can't be two places at once either. My Dad retired , Bought a nice new camper and a van and they were going to travel. Before the fun even began, While rigging the for their first trip he fell off a step stool and was paralyzed from the waist down and spent his last 15 years in a wheel chair. I still feel bad that I wasn't there to help him to help him instead of being at work. My wife reminded me of that a couple days ago when I was rigging up our camper and it gave me goose bumps and made me think safety first Nothing is for sure, In the end You only get to play the hand that was dealt to you.



 

Lycanthrope

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Thats true to an extent, but in many asian countries, nursing homes and long term care facilities are nearly non existent. They view it as their obligation to care for their elderly/disabled in a way that most americans dont. I would rather spend my last years with family than locked up in a death home. I think maybe we are too good at keeping people alive past their expiration date, at great cost to families and our society as a whole.
 

Davey Crockett

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The one reason it struggles is the rules the state puts on them and the main rule for now is how the state determines their budget for the coming year based on how they did last year. The nursing homes in short are not allow to show a profit last year for determining next year's budget and if they have been able to cut expenses, guess what they must cut for next year also. Not allow to build up any cash. Business can not survive that way. db


db, I'm ok with that if they are a not-for-profit facility. Lots of non profit facilities advertise that times are tough , It's how they get donations but the payroll is as good as gold and will always be met no matter how tough times are, Not all businesses can say that. Understaffed probably but I've also saw overstaffed positions where everybody waits for someone else to do the work.
 

Maddog

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Another option to consider for you folks. We met with a financial planner a number of years ago and this is what we did after quite a bit of discussion:

For our parents, we opted to go down the route of divesting them of "all" of their assets such that it wouldn't be drained away by long term care costs. We set up a joint (just the kids) family checking account where the divested money resides. We use(d) that $ for any/all of their needs. They had/have LTC insurance thru Thrivent. But after realizing that their policy covered such a small portion of the potential cost of a nursing home we decided to go this route instead and then after 5 years cancel the LTC policy. If you consider this as an option for you, be aware of look-back periods for asset divestment (thinking it was 5 years when we did the divesting) that comes into play. The house was sold to 2 of us kids (some didn't want to partake because of personal financial reasons - ie college financial aid). Currently our Mom is still living at home and has a car and minimal $ in her checking. We periodically supplement her checking from the joint, kids checking account. Our Dad ended up going to a nursing home (dementia issues) where he passed away after 8 months. One can think they will help their parents out ("come live in my house"). We opted that it would be easier for all if we didn't do that. I hear you all about your parents helped you out when you were youngins but perhaps if heaven forbid someone you love gets to the stage when they need more than an individual person can give, you too may go down a different path. ?? "Do not judge, less you be judged too."

The hardest thing I have done to date in my life was take my Dad to the nursing home and then seeing him slowly wilt away to "nothing".
 

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Good discussion. Good post fishinRN! U brought up a lot of issues most people are not aware of. All the intangible unpredictable stuff that can happen. We tend to think of nursing homes in terms of old people, but there are lots of young people there with totally unpredictable disabilities due to genetics, accidents, illnesses and a long list of other causes. Non medical people can’t understand the cost to cover all these things. Still, that doesn’t mean costs can’t be controlled in many ways without a lot of legal or social family repercussions. Everyone wants the best and finest for Uncle Joe, but no one realizes the costs involved. My point was that many other 1st world countries seem to handle theses problems more or less though none perfectly, but perhaps we could learn a little from looking at other civilized countries.
Yes, you widely hear that it’s much cheaper to do a round the world cruise rather than a nursing home during your last days on this blue planet, BUT the cruise ships don’t have to cover the myriad of costs that your average nursing home has to handle every day, you have to be pretty healthy for that cheap round the world nursing home stint. And it’s time limited! Back to home port and you’d be in the same boat......pun intended.....
 


Reprobait

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One thing that I have heard is that in a living will, is NOT to have someone that is real close to you as the person who makes the decisions if you are unable. The reasoning is that someone real close to you, like a spouse or child, may let their emotions get in the way of your stated wishes.
 

Davey Crockett

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One thing that I have heard is that in a living will, is NOT to have someone that is real close to you as the person who makes the decisions if you are unable. The reasoning is that someone real close to you, like a spouse or child, may let their emotions get in the way of your stated wishes.


You must have living will mixed up with power of attorney. With a living will you specify your own desires/instructions for your own treatment.

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Power of attorney is usually someone close to you that handles your financial affairs and other important decisions, I suppose including medical if you don't have a living will. I think that's the way it is.
 
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westwolfone

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I used to believe that too.

If you have assets and/or good insurance, the medical people will do everything they can to get the spouse
or next of kin to go against the intent of the living will. This happens when the person with the living will is incapacitated.

I didn't think this was possible until I saw it firsthand with my father.

If they can keep someone alive even for a few more days it makes them a lot of $$$.
 

Davey Crockett

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Interesting, Not many families would contest that as long as loved one was not suffering. Might have to update mine to be clear about that.

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The only fear I have about dying is an expensive long slow death in a hospital.


I should have said "Not many families would dispute that.
 
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westwolfone

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The spouse or next of kin contest it because the hospital administrators hard sell them on hope.

The person being sold is usually quite emotional, and they use that to their advantage
(as any good salesman would).
 


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