MDU Retires

[Obi-Wan]

Unfortunately this plant must not have been producing cheap enough power because they are replacing it with a cheaper source of power using natural gas. The maintenance of the coal plant must have been the reason it got so costly to run. These smaller coal plants are not as cheap to run with all the environmental requirements. Anyone know if this plant ran lignite or powder river basin coal?

Is it lack of cheap power or lack of market? Doesn't Minn require 20% of their power to come from renewable energy.

Do peaking plants only run when other forms can not produce enough power for the demand at the time?

 

[shorthairsrus]

[h=1]Maunder Minimum[/h]
Burn all the coal, natural gas, start buying chevys and burn all that oil, Burn baby burn -- -i am freezing my A off

 

[Rugeruser]

Minnkota !!!!

 

[SerchforPerch]

Do peaking plants only run when other forms can not produce enough power for the demand at the time?

Correct.

 

[pluckem]

It is not cost of maintenance or reliability that is driving coal plants to shut down. I think you can look at the last 40 years and understand it is one of the most reliable forms of power and also (was) economical.

It is the environmental controls that are driving the cost per Megawatt higher and higher on the coal facilities. Each coal unit has slight differences in coal (fuel), boiler design, water source, etc. so there isn't a "one size fits all" approach to the best way to handle and tackle environmental controls.

The truth is, many current technologies are available to meet current environmental requirements and limits, and they would pencil out economically, IF you can guarantee the plant will have 20 or 30 years of operations to recoup that capital expensive. Capital investments need years of returns.

This is where companies see the writing on the wall and have to make the hard decision to retire current units.

These facilities are at the mercy of government regulation. As soon as you think you have the Mercury and NOx emissions handled the Clean Power Act of 2021 is passed and some magical level of CO2 capture will be needed to be in place by 2022 and no coal facility will be able to meet it.

 

[Allen]

Am I wrong in thinking that the natural gas powerplants still run a steam turbine? Which means that while the volume may change, there will still be a cold water intake and a warm water outlet.

 

[pluckem]

Am I wrong in thinking that the natural gas powerplants still run a steam turbine? Which means that while the volume may change, there will still be a cold water intake and a warm water outlet.

Combined Cycle Plants have a gas turbine, boiler, and steam turbine. Both the gas turbine and steam turbine will drive separate generators.

"Peakers" are typically set up as simple cycle plants which is just a gas turbine and generator set.

 

[dean nelson]

Am I wrong in thinking that the natural gas powerplants still run a steam turbine? Which means that while the volume may change, there will still be a cold water intake and a warm water outlet.

Like pluckem said the systems are stand alone gas turbines that are air cooled. Some of the bigger units have an add on that takes the hot exhaust fumes to boil water to generate Steam after the initial generator is through with it but these systems are generally a closed system only taking in as much water as it loses in Steam so putting out basically nothing. The old once through system that older plants use is all but fazed out now. The loss of heskit sucks but it's the eventual lose of minkota up at center that would truly suck with the nelsonlake losing it source of heat.

 

[Sum1]

Ever since this cold snap I’ve been burning a couple styrofoam cups a day to help bring back some global warming. Am thinking about posting a video on YouTube of me doing so(while wearing a MAGA hat of course) to trigger some liberals.

 

[guywhofishes]

good idea - I think I have some old tires in the shed

 

[Migrator Man]

Is it lack of cheap power or lack of market? Doesn't Minn require 20% of their power to come from renewable energy.

Do peaking plants only run when other forms can not produce enough power for the demand at the time?

I would say it’s kind of both by the cost is the real driver. The more wind that is put in the less small plant coal power is needed. The small coal plants are more expensive. I don’t think the coal power would go away just because the power grid is overloaded with other power sources. Like someone said before the emissions requirements are making the coal plants less economical. This is what I have read but could be wrong.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Puget Sound Energy was created about 100 years ago. They serviced Seattle with hydroelectric until that got tapped out so they invested in Coal Strip Montana. Between Puget Sound Energy and Pacific Power and Lighting they built 4 units. They both are moving on. 2 of the 4 boilers are going to be moth balled.

Puget Sound Energy has a huge gas line coming in from British Columbia and is building wind farms in Montana. So where does that leave the people living in Coal Strip?

Westmoreland Coal is filing for bankruptcy.

https://missoulian.com/news/state-a...cle_cde35a6c-7a67-5f83-9193-0e5df1985dd0.html

They want a judge to forgive the $329 million in pensions owed to its coal miners.

Puget Sound Energy is and was going to move on anyway. So is it really necessary for the Native Americans, enviros and Sierra Club to protest? They get all the press and the coal miners get no mention.

https://www.knkx.org/post/protester...-coal-power-puget-sound-energy-hearing-renton

 

[Davy Crockett]

Puget Sound Energy was created about 100 years ago. They serviced Seattle with hydroelectric until that got tapped out so they invested in Coal Strip Montana. Between Puget Sound Energy and Pacific Power and Lighting they built 4 units. They both are moving on. 2 of the 4 boilers are going to be moth balled.

Puget Sound Energy has a huge gas line coming in from British Columbia and is building wind farms in Montana. So where does that leave the people living in Coal Strip?

Westmoreland Coal is filing for bankruptcy.

https://missoulian.com/news/state-a...cle_cde35a6c-7a67-5f83-9193-0e5df1985dd0.html

They want a judge to forgive the $329 million in pensions owed to its coal miners.

Puget Sound Energy is and was going to move on anyway. So is it really necessary for the Native Americans, enviros and Sierra Club to protest? They get all the press and the coal miners get no mention.

https://www.knkx.org/post/protester...-coal-power-puget-sound-energy-hearing-renton

It will be interesting to see what happens with the 329 Million in pensions that are owed. I thought that issue had been settled a few years ago with new laws and the money had to be accounted for and verified through a 3rd party holding firm. In the mid 80s the drilling contractor I was working for went bankrupt and I was 100% vested in a retirement plan and also a profit sharing plan that had built pretty fast during the good years. All gone, Overnight . Not a dam thing we could do about it. I hope the miners get their money, It sux to start over when you think you have the world by the tail .

 

[LBrandt]

Ever since this cold snap I’ve been burning a couple styrofoam cups a day to help bring back some global warming. Am thinking about posting a video on YouTube of me doing so(while wearing a MAGA hat of course) to trigger some liberals.

Do that and we will have warming with all the dems brains on fire.

 

[Reprobait]

Let's hope that Westmoreland is not allowed to walk away from the Beulah mine without reclaiming the land. Maybe there is some kind of fund to cover it. There has to be a lot of expense left at that mine to do that.

 

[Skeeter]

Let's hope that Westmoreland is not allowed to walk away from the Beulah mine without reclaiming the land. Maybe there is some kind of fund to cover it. There has to be a lot of expense left at that mine to do that.

Mines have to put up bonds for this reason.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Knife River Coal Mine south of Beulah supplies Coyote Generating Station. That will continue because Coteau Properties has taken over the delivery contract. (New Management) Westmoreland is only doing the reclamation right now on what they mined.

Coteau Properties retained a few of Westmoreland's workforce but mostly brought in their own. Westmoreland kept a few for reclamation and a few were retained, but those who didn't get picked up really need that pension.