National Grasslands

[gst]

Oh one last question what you think may lie in YOUR mind as a law enforcement officer allen.

Had you been there and fired a shot that may have killed a 18 year old girl whos only wrong was to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people as she traveled to sing gospel songs with her family........

Would you still be asking how we got to be such a "pussy nation"?

Perhaps the question you should be asking is how did we get to be such a pussy nation we tolerate our govt ignoring our Constitution and taking more and more and more control of our freedoms and our lives in the "courts and legislative branches of govt".

I'm guessing perhaps that is what the Founding Fathers would be asking.

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Oh one more question........you mean the "legislative branches of govt" where people like Sen Reid are in control?

 

[PrairieGhost]

It may not change the facts but some people on here still don;t buy them even after being repeated dozens of times.......

You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you in the ass. I think the FBI may have screwed up too, but I am willing to wait and see what the jury says. You on the other hand want to lynch them. I enjoy leading you on and letting you display your radical bias. Your ok with law enforcement until they arrest anyone with any link to agriculture.

Allen, my hats off to you sir. Your assessment is spot on. Very good post.

Oh, and GST if you do grab your AR15 and go to a protest like this it's likely you will not be coming home. Pulling a gun like Funicum will get your shot by anyone in law enforcement. They don't know your gods gift to humanity they just think your going to try kill them. Funicum failed or he would have shot someone. I'll bet your name is on a list somewhere.

 

[Allen]

1. Marshal law is different, and you should already know that. But yes, I believe our LEOs should be given the tools necessary to help them go home at the end of the day. This isn't a cockfight.

2. It's called the "fog of war". Confusion happens, to assume anything else is to be pointing the finger at someone wanting bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed. Only the most conspiratorial of conspiracy theorists would go they way of thinking that it was intentional.

3. Snipers pull off some great shots, but even they miss. I am not familiar with the guy, he may have a twitch.

4. All shots are fired to render a threat non-threatening. Either to kill the dumb bastard, or to scare him back to reality. Either way, the intent of rendering a threat non-threatening is the overall goal.

5. Maybe he effed up and was scared? Maybe he was trying to make sure we don't find out that he was indeed the triggerman that killed Kennedy. I can't read his mind.

6. All kinds of shit gets cleaned up. What's evidence to one person is a mess to another.

7. B&C died because they made it well known that they weren't going to be taken alive. Sound familiar?

And lastly, yes. I will go there. Don't take on the government with a firearm unless you are willing to pay for your stupid with your life. Right or wrong, you don't have the resources necessary to win a firefight. Ask Wacko and Ruby Ridge how that worked out for them. Learn from history.

Look, you are trying to paint me into a corner and say that LE, in this case, or any other can't be held accountable for mistakes. That is not my position at all. I am just saying that if you are willing to take up arms against the United States of America, its laws, government employees just trying to do their job of enforcing the law, or its citizens (that are NOT in conflict with the law)...I am not going to have much sympathy for your fate.

At this point I believe I have answered enough questions on this topic and will go back to the peanut gallery.

 

[gst]

You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you in the ass. .

Weeeelllllll.............

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Pulling a gun like Funicum .

I do know for a "fact" Finnicum never "pulled a gun".

The "fact" is his had dropped towards his waistband and he was shot. He had a gun inside his coat pocket that was never "pulled"......

Really plains take the advice given and just stop.

 

[Allen]

Yes, I didn't put her in that position. I, like anyone else would prefer her to not be there, but it wasn't our call, now was it? Was Finicum using her as a human shield? If so, well...that puts him right into the same category as the Vietnamese, North Koreans, and ISIS. Worthless POS in my world.

I like Reid about as much as most on this site, but until he's ousted through retirement or an election, that A-hole is still a member of the United States Senate. I will defend his right to sit in his duly elected Senate seat until the day I die, because that's what we Americans do. We defend democracy!

 

[gst]

1. Marshal law is different, and you should already know that. But yes, I believe our LEOs should be given the tools necessary to help them go home at the end of the day. This isn't a cockfight.

Allen I asked a specific question given your introduction of the Marines into the discussion. I will be a bit more specific yet, should civilian law enforcement be allowed to operate under rules of engagement the military is. Consider the differences in the application of civil rights (4th amendment, 5th amendment......ect)

2. It's called the "fog of war". Confusion happens, to assume anything else is to be pointing the finger at someone wanting bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed. Only the most conspiratorial of conspiracy theorists would go they way of thinking that it was intentional.

"confusion"?? These are highly trained the best of the best the FBI has to offer. There were no bullets flying, (not one single shot was ever fired by these refuge protesters nor was a weapon even brandished in a threatening manner) no bombs exploding, no limbs being blown off the FBI was actually secondary and the OSP was front and center. "fog of war"......come on man kinda dramatic.

3. Snipers pull off some great shots, but even they miss. I am not familiar with the guy, he may have a twitch.

Hell of a "twitch" to miss an entire pickup at 150 yards or less.........funny the FBI kept him on active duty with that bad a "twitch".

4. All shots are fired to render a threat non-threatening. Either to kill the dumb bastard, or to scare him back to reality. Either way, the intent of rendering a threat non-threatening is the overall goal.

But the FBI do not fire "warning shots". If a shot is fired it is meant to render an individual out of action. They FBI does not try to shoot the six gun out of the gunslingers hand.

https://quizlet.com/38878558/chapter-6-criminal-justice-flash-cards/

Are federal agents ALLOWED to fire a warning shot prior to using deadly force?[FONT=hurme_no2-webfont]Agents may not fire warning shots.








[/FONT]
[FONT=hurme_no2-webfont]




[/FONT]

5. Maybe he effed up and was scared? Maybe he was trying to make sure we don't find out that he was indeed the triggerman that killed Kennedy. I can't read his mind.

Are you actually excusing why an FBI agent lied or just giving reasons? If he lied becasue he was scared becasue he "effed up" it renders all your above points kinda ineffectual right?
6. All kinds of shit gets cleaned up. What's evidence to one person is a mess to another.

So you are now making an excuse that highly trained FBI HRT teams did no know that shell casing from shots fired were considered evidence to be logged by the proper chain of command??? Come on man that is the most conspiratal of conspiracy stupidity.

7. B&C died because they made it well known that they weren't going to be taken alive. Sound familiar?


So you are still sticking with someone that killed several people to someone that never pulled a gun on law enforcemnt????? Really??? I thought you were smarter than that.

So If I grab a snickers bar and run out of a 7-11 without paying and the cop on the corner hollers at me and I holler back "you'll never take me alive copper" by your line of thinking he can draw his weapon and shoot me in the back?

And lastly, yes. I will go there. Don't take on the government with a firearm unless you are willing to pay for your stupid with your life. Right or wrong, you don't have the resources necessary to win a firefight. Ask Wacko and Ruby Ridge how that worked out for them. Learn from history.

So then why do we need the 2nd amendment????? Really please answer that one allen, if we do not have the "resources" to protect ourselves from govt tyranny why do we still have the 2nd amendment....considering why it was included on our Constitution.

Look, you are trying to paint me into a corner and say that LE, in this case, or any other can't be held accountable for mistakes. That is not my position at all. I am just saying that if you are willing to take up arms against the United States of America, its laws, government employees just trying to do their job of enforcing the law, or its citizens (that are NOT in conflict with the law)...I am not going to have much sympathy for your fate.

At this point I believe I have answered enough questions on this topic and will go back to the peanut gallery.

I am not asking anyone to by sympathetic" to LaVoy Finnicums "fate". I am merely asking people to become educated as to what our govt is capable and willing to do. And to realize that more and more people are willing to excuse and justify those actions and where that may lead.

And LaVoy knew full well what might happen when he exercised his 2nd amendment rights as our Founders envisioned them being exercised. He spoke to it on more than one occasion.

He paid that price for what he believed that our govt is ignoring our Constitution.

Perhaps you are comfortable to sit back while people like Dirty Harry Reid and company bend and twist and ignore our Constitution.

Perhaps you take comfort in courts where judges do the bidding of the political ideals that put them on the bench.

I am guessing what would have been on our Founders minds here based on their writings I have read,,,,,and I believe they would think that is the greatest danger to our Constitutional Republic they gave us.

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I am just saying that if you are willing to take up arms against the United States of America, its laws, government employees just trying to do their job of enforcing the law, or its citizens (that are NOT in conflict with the law)...I am not going to have much sympathy for your fate.

So what happens when govt agencies are breaking the law and the courts do nothing because those in political power that appoint them are the ones appointing those in the federal agencies that are breaking the law?

The courts?

Several lower courts ruled in favor on Wayne Hage who followed your advice of taking the legal and legislative route. Then the 9th district court overturned the lower courts ruling in his case. Are you familiar with the 9th allen? The court that overturned Trump immigration policy ? Are you familiar with their record of being over turned?

Take a look at the percentages of cases the courts rule on the SCOTUS over turns when viewed under a Constitutional lens.

Then realize the SCOTUS only hears less than 2% of all cases that are appealed that high. 100 to 150 a year. So if a judge know he only has a 2% chance of his judgement being reviewed and being over turned............


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-ninth-circuit-have-overturn-record-close-80/

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Yes, I didn't put her in that position. I, like anyone else would prefer her to not be there, but it wasn't our call, now was it? Was Finicum using her as a human shield? If so, well...that puts him right into the same category as the Vietnamese, North Koreans, and ISIS. Worthless POS in my world.

I like Reid about as much as most on this site, but until he's ousted through retirement or an election, that A-hole is still a member of the United States Senate. I will defend his right to sit in his duly elected Senate seat until the day I die, because that's what we Americans do. We defend democracy!

Oh for fu$k sake allen you are REALLY sounding like plainsman now. Do you know that Shawna Cox the other woman in the vehicle as well as Victoria Sharp the 18 year old has said the reason LaVoy left the pickup at all was to get LE to stop firing into it and at the women?

Indeed you as a law enforcement officer did not choose ot put an 18 year old girl in that position...but you as a law enforcement officer can certainly choose whether to fire live rounds using deadly force or not. Apparently you have no problem with that choice

It appears you seem you would sleep easy with this girls death simply because hey she was in the wrong spot at the wrong time. But hey none of your fellow law enforcement officers would think you were a "pussy" though right??



Just don;t exercise your 2nd amendment rights when defending democracy though eh allen...... wait a minute.....say, aren;t our 2nd amendment rights part of demo...........oh never mind Jerry Springer is on TV.

 

[Allen]

I think I'm going to stand by my decision. Enjoy Jerry.

 

[DirtyMike]

What happened to the peanut gallery post...

 

[PrairieGhost]

Oh one last question

Did help just freeze over?

 

[Rowdie]

It never fails, after about 6 months or so these two find a topic just close enough which leads to the same old arguments. This is the 3rd outdoor website, these two banter back and fourth on.

Here's a question. When was THE 1st 20+ pager you two bickered back and forth? Which site? Link?

 

[gst]

likely back on Nodak Outdoors........probably about baiting or HFH.

It has evolved from bickering to a full time job of pointing out the bullshit in plainsmans claims.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

hold up. pghost is in law enforcement?? this just keeps getting better.

Sort of. PG is a retired federal biologist. US Fish and Wildlife and US Geological Survey. He then became a moderator on a site called nodakouthouse. It was a boars nest of his friends. huntin1 was a police officer friend. PG used to ride around in huntin1's squad car.

When the government was looking for Gordan Kahl, PG was involved. I believe he was in a plane equipped with a camera. Had he actually met Gordan Kahl face to face.... PG would have accidentally shot himself Barney Fife style.

 

[guywhofishes]

Had he actually met Gordan Kahl face to face.... PG would have accidentally shot himself Barney Fife style.

wow was that low

 

[gst]

This is the kind of thing that leaves local folks scratching their head and often opposed to the Federal agencies management of these lands.

http://freerangereport.com/index.ph...fleet-stays-grounded-in-busy-wildfire-season/



[h=2]Despite agreement, Montana helicopter fleet stays grounded in busy wildfire season[/h]BILLINGS — Despite an agreement worked out last year, a group of Montana legislators is reigniting a debate over why state helicopters can’t be used to fight federal fires except when lives are threatened.

On Wednesday the Environmental Quality Council — composed of 12 legislators and four members of the public who met by conference call — unanimously approved sending a letter to Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue and Secretary of the Department of the Interior Ryan Zinke stating their displeasure with the federal standards.

“Regarding the issue relative to the Department of Agriculture, there appears to be an ongoing refusal on the part of the federal government and the Forest Service to allow our Montana (MT-205) helicopters to be classified as approved aircraft for initial attack on federal lands,” the letter stated. “The aircraft are safe and effective and are integral to fighting wildfires in Montana. For them to be allowed on all lands in the state except federal land because of a bureaucratic technicality is not logical.”


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wow was that low

About as low as labeling all the hard working every day folks that are members of the North Dakota Farm Bureau Posse Comitatus members ?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Don Knots played Barney Fife on the Andy Griffith Show. I can still picture him trying to draw but his gun would get stuck in the holster and go off into the floor. Or he would point but was shaking so badly nobody wanted to be on the receiving end of that.

Sheriff Andy Griffith was commonsense solid.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Don Knots played Barney Fife on the Andy Griffith Show. I can still picture him trying to draw but his gun would get stuck in the holster and go off into the floor. Or he would point but was shaking so badly nobody wanted to be on the receiving end of that.

Sheriff Andy Griffith was commonsense solid.

We all remember Andy Griffith Fritz. That blow wasn't nearly as low as the gutter you crawled into in the past.

The anger is over not getting what ranchers want. They have what they have worked for now they want what belongs to all Americans. Sorry, can't have it. I think more conservatives enjoy the outdoors than liberals. Calling people nasty names like liberal doesn't always work to turn mindless people into partisan robots. Most conservatives think for themselves. The mindless marching in lockstep on both sides of the political spectrum will destroy this nation. One worships money the other worships their perversions. I often feel like I need a shower after voting. Wash my hands like Pontius Pilate, and that's after voting for the lesser of two evils.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Plains maybe if you go and help gst clean his shelter belts you guys could iron out all the problems of the world. You can't do it without getting your hands dirty

 

[Stan's Dad]

Did help just freeze over?

.

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likely back on Nodak Outdoors........probably about baiting or HFH.

It has evolved from bickering to a full time job of pointing out the bullshit in plainsmans claims.

.

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Sort of. PG is a retired federal biologist. US Fish and Wildlife and US Geological Survey. He then became a moderator on a site called nodakouthouse. It was a boars nest of his friends. huntin1 was a police officer friend. PG used to ride around in huntin1's squad car.

When the government was looking for Gordan Kahl, PG was involved. I believe he was in a plane equipped with a camera. Had he actually met Gordan Kahl face to face.... PG would have accidentally shot himself Barney Fife style.

all 3 of you are pretty unlike able.

 

[gst]

We all remember Andy Griffith Fritz. That blow wasn't nearly as low as the gutter you crawled into in the past.

.

plains, really just stop..unless you think accusing a 14 year old kid raising pheasants thru our local pheasants club for an FFA project as doing it for the "georges"..... simply becasue you do not like his dad you have never met because of internet arguments not being in the "gutter" or a "low blow"

I', sure you will have some justification for making those petty accusations as you always do.

Once again you try to change the diapogue to ranchers and cows when it is about the govt and their overstepping the limitations they must abide by when governing We the people....and that impacts ALL of us whether rncher, sportsmen or even retired govt employees.

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.

The anger is over not getting what ranchers want. They have what they have worked for now they want what belongs to all Americans. Sorry, can't have it. .

From the very beginning plains what I have shared has been about the govt trying to take what people from welders to ranchers to miners to any number of other Americans already have.

And h=you are once again dishonestly trying ot distract from the truth of that. The Hammond family is a perfect example.

 

[PrairieGhost]

We don't need section line roads on the Badlands.