ND Outfitter Deer Tags

[ndlongshot]

I was reviewing the deer hunting regulations and came across the following:

"Eligibility:

Nonresidents - State law allocates nonresidents 1 percent of deer gun and muzzleloader licenses available in any unit (through the second deer gun lottery). One half of the nonresident allocation of antlered white-tailed deer licenses, up to a maximum of 100 licenses, are available to licensed guides or outfitters. Nonresidents may apply for a deer gun license after the second lottery at a fee of $50. Nonresident full-time students living in North Dakota, who are attending a state or tribal college or a private institution of higher education, may qualify for nonlottery resident licenses. Contact the Game and Fish Department for details."

I know this has come up before in other topics but never really discussed.

I honestly would like to know how everyone feels about this, or if I am off base? I dont believe that the outfitters should be entitled to free tags, no matter the amount, which they can transfer/sell and use the funds to lease even more ground. Joe Schmoe can't transfer his tags, and neither should they. Besides playing by a different set of rules, I feel like its a game and fish subsidy that effects ND hunters in a negative way. I am sure this will be controversial topic, but I would like to get some perspective. Like I said this is my initial gut reaction. Do you guys see it differently?

 

[deleted]

It's hard for me to vote against it when I have purchased an outfitter bear tag when I hunted Ontario.

 

[Kurtr]

Yep i like hunting other states so and some day will go on a guided hunt for some thing or just to have another experience so i cant say that process is a bad thing

 

[Duckslayer100]

As much as it may suck in zones with very low changes of pulling a tag, it's still a mighty small percentage of the overall tag allotment.

That makes me feel yucky since I typically despise guides and outfitters...

 

[ndlongshot]

Point taken. I hunt other states as well, but I do it on my own and havent ever considered hiring somebody.

 

[Kurtr]

thats 99% of what i do also but some day i would like to go on a wilderness hunt with horses and wall tents and get an experience i cant on my own or maybe if i get lucky a sheep hunt where it is a once in a life time thing where a guide and outfitter only makes sense.

 

[ndlongshot]

True. But thats still possible without giving tags to an outfitter. If I draw my WY elk tag like usual, I can still go hire a guide. There is no reason I have to purchase a tag from Big Bulls Outfitters rather than the state of WY.

Same goes for sheep hunt. You draw your tag and go hire a guide. No reason you have to get your tag from the guide vs. game and fish.

 

[labhunter66]

I was reviewing the deer hunting regulations and came across the following:

"Eligibility:

Nonresidents - State law allocates nonresidents 1 percent of deer gun and muzzleloader licenses available in any unit (through the second deer gun lottery). One half of the nonresident allocation of antlered white-tailed deer licenses, up to a maximum of 100 licenses, are available to licensed guides or outfitters. Nonresidents may apply for a deer gun license after the second lottery at a fee of $50. Nonresident full-time students living in North Dakota, who are attending a state or tribal college or a private institution of higher education, may qualify for nonlottery resident licenses. Contact the Game and Fish Department for details."

I know this has come up before in other topics but never really discussed.

I honestly would like to know how everyone feels about this, or if I am off base? I dont believe that the outfitters should be entitled to free tags, no matter the amount, which they can transfer/sell and use the funds to lease even more ground. Joe Schmoe can't transfer his tags, and neither should they. Besides playing by a different set of rules, I feel like its a game and fish subsidy that effects ND hunters in a negative way. I am sure this will be controversial topic, but I would like to get some perspective. Like I said this is my initial gut reaction. Do you guys see it differently?

I'm not a huge fan of guides and outfitters either but I will say that it is only 1/2 of 1% of whitetail licenses available to the public with a max of 100 so it doesn't have a significant affect on most residents. Also, the licenses are not free to the guide and outfitter. They pay $250 each for them.

 

[ndlongshot]

Thanks for the info lab. Wasn't aware the price they paid.

 

[Kurtr]

True. But thats still possible without giving tags to an outfitter. If I draw my WY elk tag like usual, I can still go hire a guide. There is no reason I have to purchase a tag from Big Bulls Outfitters rather than the state of WY.

Same goes for sheep hunt. You draw your tag and go hire a guide. No reason you have to get your tag from the guide vs. game and fish.

Planing and logistics is why i would buy it from the outfitter it is guaranteed a tag. Like the post says guides just dont get the tag for free they have to pay for it up front. Also you cant hunt the wilderness areas in WY with out a guide and alot of places you cant hunt sheep with out a guide.

 

[ndlongshot]

I guess I think of it in regards to fishing guides/outfitters (and elk in other states). We dont issue them designated fishing licenses to sell to clients. The clients buy an out of state fishing license and then plan accordingly with the guide.

 

[Nanky]

If you are a resident, it won't affect you at all because it's only taken out of the existing non-resident tags. Now as for me (since I am a non-resident as of 2 years ago) it really sucks because there are already so few tags in each unit. By the time you take out landowner and outfitter tags, it leaves so few for the regular non-resident it's embarrassing. Many units do not have any tags available at all after landowner and outfitter are allocated. I'm guessing this is why G&F does not publish non-resident draw stats. I email them every year to get the draw odds for a various units in order to at least give myself a shot a drawing, but it's pretty damn depressing and a horrible system in my opinion. All I'd like to do is every 5-10 years be able to draw a non-resident whitetail buck tag and hunt with family and friends, but the system in many units doesn't even allow it unless I'm wealthy, which I am not.

 

[eyexer]

I think when the deer population is this low and there are so few tags available, non-residents should be cut out until the population comes back. at least in certain zones. there are some zones where it isn't an issue. but some zones it is a bunch of shit.

 

[Kurtr]

I think when the deer population is this low and there are so few tags available, non-residents should be cut out until the population comes back. at least in certain zones. there are some zones where it isn't an issue. but some zones it is a bunch of shit.

if am reading right it says nr have to wait for 2nd lottery to get a tag. If thats the case why would the residents that want a tag not applied already

 

[Kraken]

What about guaranteed/over the counter bow tags? Handed out like candy compared to outfitter tags. I don't think either are a problem because deer numbers are definitely up from a couple years ago.

 

[MarbleEyez]

I think when the deer population is this low and there are so few tags available, non-residents should be cut out until the population comes back. at least in certain zones. there are some zones where it isn't an issue. but some zones it is a bunch of shit.

You guys are looking at this situation from one side of the glass. A major majority of the small towns in ND depended on the business of the non-resident hunters. Has anyone driven through southwestern ND lately? Towns are getting smaller and businesses are closing due to the significant decline in business from non-resident hunters. The restaurant's/bar's/motels have 60-70% of the business they had 10 years ago. Most of this is pertaining to non-resident bird hunters not deer hunters.

The non-resident economic effects on small town ND is very important. I almost think that 1% is well below where it "could" be. I do agree that cutting out non-resident tags in certain units would be beneficial. But I feel that they should also throw out that 1% of tag numbers as well. Don't make zero tags available to non-resident's in a specific unit but still keep the 1% of tags that were allotted to non-residents in the pool for residents to pull in the lottery. That is not a way to do things.

I hunt other states as well and would be a little ticked off if that's how they did things.

 

[Ericb]

These #'s are so small its irrelevant. There are probably more people who drew a tag and never tried to fill it then these outfitter tags. Id be willing to bet ND residents purchase way more out of state tags than Nd sells.

I have no clue who or where any outfitters in ND operate. If they're operating soley on public land I would not support this. Some one owning and managing private land would probably benefit all hunters in the area if its managed properly

 

[ndlongshot]

I have no issue with NR deer hunters. Thats not what this post is about. Its about ND outfitters getting personal tags to sell for their business.

 

[KDM]

It really makes no never mind to me about these tags. I can have access to them if I want. All I need to be is an outfitter. I choose NOT to be an outfitter. Each ND resident is free to become and outfitter should they so choose as advertised many times here and on their website. Become and outfitter and I think you may very well change your mind about these "Personal Tags" as you call them. I know a couple outfitters that get up to 5 tags per year and they are NOT making a mint on their outfitting business. I'd MUCH rather just drop a cool grand and go hunt deer and elk in Montana than do the immense amount of work to make an outfitting business work. I would say these tags, when you add all the time and effort into making an outfitting business work, costs a crapton more than the grand I would drop for the NR Montana tags. JMHO though.

 

[Nanky]

KDM will you become an outfitter so I can hunt in ND every year?