New .284

[svnmag]

IMO: Ammo companies are half a Democrat. They'd be better served by developing "new" loads for existing fodder and offering appropriate bbls for sale.

 

[Tikka280ai]

I get the idea behind this and the 277 fury. High pressure loads for 16-20 inch barrels than hang with if not beat "old" cartridges from 22-26 inch barrels. With how the popularity of supressors has taken off its a growing market.

My only hang up with these is being able to reload these specialty cases without needing a complete diffrent set of equipment

 

[svnmag]

I get the idea behind this and the 277 fury. High pressure loads for 16-20 inch barrels than hang with if not beat "old" cartridges from 22-26 inch barrels. With how the popularity of supressors has taken off its a growing market.

My only hang up with these is being able to reload these specialty cases without needing a complete diffrent set of equipment

Good post. Thanks. I'm an enthusiast and by no means an expert (obvious): Is this rd "saying" steel cases aren't shit anymore and SAAMI needs to "re-evaluate"?

FYI/FUN FACT: A bullet fired from a diving aircraft has enough inherit/relative velocity to overcome stability from twist:

 

[measure-it]

Can't wait for the new 7mmW.GAS. (7millimeter-who-gives-a-sh**)!

 

[PrairieGhost]

Yikes, 20 inch barrel, near 3000 fps with a 175g, and a muzzle brake. That muzzle blast should show up on the Richter scale. It would be a manufacturers dream to create a cartridge extremely difficult to reload. Also a dream for the gun control freaks.
A guy needs a walking gun and a sitting gun. If I had to pick one cartridge right now I would be happy with a 7 PRC in a 22 inch carbon barrel and another in a 28 to 30 inch heavy with 5R fast twist.

 

[Downrigger]

Yikes, 20 inch barrel, near 3000 fps with a 175g, and a muzzle brake. That muzzle blast should show up on the Richter scale. It would be a manufacturers dream to create a cartridge extremely difficult to reload. Also a dream for the gun control freaks.
A guy needs a walking gun and a sitting gun. If I had to pick one cartridge right now I would be happy with a 7 PRC in a 22 inch carbon barrel and another in a 28 to 30 inch heavy with 5R fast twist.

You shooting a 7PRC now? I’m looking at the new seekins trying to make a decision. I’m shooting a weatherby 30-378 with a break and it makes my head hurt from the sound.

 

[PrairieGhost]

You shooting a 7PRC now? I’m looking at the new seekins trying to make a decision. I’m shooting a weatherby 30-378 with a break and it makes my head hurt from the sound.

No I have never had a 7mm, but I may have to cure that. My grandson recently purchased a Seekins in 7 PRC. If all you hunt is deer, elk, moose, black bear, and no large bears I think that cartridge is about a perfect ballance. T h e faster twist in recent years makes every caliber take a step up in game use. Of course the 7mm in any cartridge has never been a slouch. Also for the past two years the Seekins has been my dream rifle. If you watch Backfire on utube he reports trouble with 7 PRC accuracy until he tried it in a Seekins.

 

[SDMF]

IMO: Ammo companies are half a Democrat. They'd be better served by developing "new" loads for existing fodder and offering appropriate bbls for sale.

Give or take, once you go over 55K PSI in any brass case, your primer pockets have a "lifespan".

You can keep the neck and shoulder "alive" almost indefinitely by proper sizing and timely annealing, but, get up into the low-mid 60K PSI range and primer pockets don't last forever. Some last longer than others, but, they all eventually fail to crush-fit a primer.

80K PSI is up in the range where in a brass case you pierce the primer, flame-cut nice little "pits" into your bolt face, and get a face-full of escaping gases. And/or the primer-pocket fails completely and when you open the bolt (if you can) the case comes out and the primer falls down into the magazine or trigger mechanism.

It's hard to say, but, it might make more sense to people if we got rid of "caliber headstamps" like 308Win and instead called out cases by their projectile diameter, case length, case capacity, and PSI ratings. If you've got a bore diameter, case capacity, and max PSI it becomes more difficult to be enamored with a "head stamp" as something magical.

The 308 x 51 x 56 x 62,000 doesn't exactly roll off the tongue like "308 Win" or "7.62 NATO" though.

It'll be interesting to see as more steel case offerings and reloading tools become available how the manufacturers go about dealing with the steel portion of the cases. Previous to the .277Fury or this new 7 BackCountry, the way to deal w/steel cases was to lacquer the cases and chrome line chambers and bores. Currently it looks like nickel-plating at least the steel portions of the case is how they get around "stickage". At bottleneck cartridge pressures, nickel eventually flakes off though. When that happens you run the risk of galling dies, or worse, chambers, bolt-lugs and/or bolt race-ways.

I'll admit, that a modest 22" bbl with what most consider a fairly "short" 6" suppressor, isn't nearly as "handy" as a straight 22" overall bbl length.

 

[luvcatchingbass]

I'm not sold on it yet, not saying I'm against it I'm just not sold on accuracy and real world consistent speeds.
Sounds like they have some kind of "special powder blend", watched a video where they tried pulling the bullet with pliers and twisted off the bullet in the case neck, jury is out on what "additional process" is needed for reloading, some data from Fedral says 3 or 4 reloads per case with maybe max of 6-8 before cases start cracking, depending who you watch I'm not impressed with initial accuracy or speeds, Seekins is saying they are redesigning their action to take the added pressure but you got guys out there saying that every major companies test their actions to higher than 65k pressure (which I'm sure they do), some are being responsible and warning against rebarreling older actions but you got some irresponsible saying you can take any of your old actions and rebarrel.
I don't see this reloader friendly right now. How much neck tension are they using? What is this special powder blend? What is this special case prep routine that's needed? How many suppressors can actually take consistent 80k pressure and at what barrel length will failures happen more likely?
I really do hope this pushes things to new limits vs the redesign/tweaking of old cartridge designs. There are just way too many questions out there that give me reservations.
Maybe I'm being closed minded because the way I hunt typically is get no advantage to a 16-18" barrel, heck most times I could have a 30" barrel and it wouldn't hinder me

 

[svnmag]

No I have never had a 7mm, but I may have to cure that. My grandson recently purchased a Seekins in 7 PRC. If all you hunt is deer, elk, moose, black bear, and no large bears I think that cartridge is about a perfect ballance. T h e faster twist in recent years makes every caliber take a step up in game use. Of course the 7mm in any cartridge has never been a slouch. Also for the past two years the Seekins has been my dream rifle. If you watch Backfire on utube he reports trouble with 7 PRC accuracy until he tried it in a Seekins.

"Liked" this vid as it validated my opinion of a "true" group from a COLD bbl. I've pissed off a few folks by waiting for the bbl to become ambient. The first "cold" shot is the "true" impact (all things considered) and "shouldn't" adversely affect a 10in circle or a "half dime" on turkey/small game/.

I'd rather blame myself than the gun/ammo. Rimfire can be a mindfuck IMHE.

That is all.

 

[SDMF]

"Liked" this vid as it validated my opinion of a "true" group from a COLD bbl. I've pissed off a few folks by waiting for the bbl to become ambient. The first "cold" shot is the "true" impact (all things considered) and "shouldn't" adversely affect a 10in circle or a "half dime" on turkey/small game/.

I'd rather blame myself than the gun/ammo. Rimfire can be a mindfuck IMHE.

That is all.

If your 1st “cold bore” shot is measurably outside your average group as thr bbl warms, IMO you’ve got a mechanical problem.

Scope bases
Scope rings
Bedding
Action screws

Or, less likely, you’ve got some stress in the bbl steel and you need a cryo treatment or a new tube.

Going back and forth between copper and cup and core projectiles doesn’t cause trouble in a good barrel either. Tuesday I shot a .270Win I bought used. It’s got a 6x42 Leupold in Talley lightweights. 130gn Hornady interlocks and 130gn TTSX with the same powder charge and same seating depth into the same group. Doesn’t matter if it’s cold or HOT just keeps pounding bullets into the group. As an aside, this is from the 2nd worst looking bore interior I’ve scoped.

 

[Jiffy]

Don't clean it...

 

[luvcatchingbass]

If your 1st “cold bore” shot is measurably outside your average group as thr bbl warms, IMO you’ve got a mechanical problem.

Scope bases
Scope rings
Bedding
Action screws

Or, less likely, you’ve got some stress in the bbl steel and you need a cryo treatment or a new tube.

Going back and forth between copper and cup and core projectiles doesn’t cause trouble in a good barrel either. Tuesday I shot a .270Win I bought used. It’s got a 6x42 Leupold in Talley lightweights. 130gn Hornady interlocks and 130gn TTSX with the same powder charge and same seating depth into the same group. Doesn’t matter if it’s cold or HOT just keeps pounding bullets into the group. As an aside, this is from the 2nd worst looking bore interior I’ve scoped.

It's funny how we can convince ourselves of anything, especially with all the info and influencers out there doing "studies". My brain is over ran by the paralysis by analysis bug on all sorts of topics

 

[Lycanthrope]

theoretically this new tech sounds interesting, but I wouldnt adapt it if it wasnt feasible to reload. I wonder what kind of case life youd get out of these stronger steel cases. Do you need special primers also to contain that pressure? Im assuming brass primers would fail.

 

[SDMF]

It's funny how we can convince ourselves of anything, especially with all the info and influencers out there doing "studies". My brain is over ran by the paralysis by analysis bug on all sorts of topics

I've chased a LOT of rabbit holes. IMO/IME you MUST get the mechanics right before you chase anything else.

On a new rifle/barrel, a couple of wet patches with your favorite solvent just to make sure there's no machining shavings/small chips in the bore. I like to follow that with 2-3 patches soaked in rubbing alcohol, and 3-4 dry patches then call it done. A used rifle gets a few passes with a solvent on a jag, then some bronze-brush scrubbing, a few more patches to clear that out, then a tight patch filled w/Iosso or JB bore paste and 20-50 passes, re-applying to the patch every 10-15 passes. I'm not so concerned with getting down to "bare metal" once I know what I've got, but, I need to see bare-metal at least once for a reference. I've got 2 barrels in particular that are UGLY to look at but shoot quite well. A ~$90 Teslong bore scope can tell you a lot about what going on in your bore, just don't forget to look at what targets are telling you as well.

The screws holding on the scope bases and holding the action in place get a little polishing to remove any bluing on the very end, they should be shiny. Then coat them with a sharpie, install, torque to spec, then remove and see if there are any marks in the sharpie that might indicate the end of the screw/bolt is touching where it shouldn't be. There should be 0 pressure on the very end of the screw/bolt, the threads and head of the fastener should bear 100% of the "clamp".

Trigger retention pins, safety lever, bolt release, fixed blade ejector should all be checked. Retention pins should be centered, you can add a little nail polish to keep them in place, it can be colored if you want to know in the future whether it's been done or not. The bolt release, safety, and fixed blade ejector should all move freely, if they're binding, figure out where they're rubbing and lightly file away the problem. Same for the bolt in the bolt-handle journal of the stock, it should never rub there, but, sometimes it does and needs a remedy. A bit of grease on the mating surface of the bolt lugs, cycle the bolt and look @ the swipes in the grease to see if you've got good contact or a problem. You could also sharpie the mating surface if you're having a hard time getting the bolt in/out without disturbing the grease swipes.

The barreled action should sit flush in it's inlet without any "rocking" or "teetering". If it's not flat but is teetering, find the problem and solve it by removing the pivot point (lightly file/dremel) or adding bedding to raise everything above the pivot. I like a barrel to be either fully floating (bedded to the end of the shank and then a generous float), or fully supported IF it's inconsistent when floated.

The internal mag box and/or bottom metal should not flex or bind. Run the bolt back and forth with the bottom metal out and the bottom metal installed. If it feels like there's a "hitch" or hesitation in the bolt cycle, something is binding and/or flexing the action.

On a new rifle or re-barrel where everything has been disassembled I take about 90min or so to tear-down and get everything put back together ensuring nothing is touching or torquing where it shouldn't be. Some will bed the scope bases to the receiver and skim-bed the scope in the rings, I don't go that far. I do put a good dose of gel-type nail polish on the action and the scope bases then torque in place. Kind of like bedding I suppose but much quicker and less mess. I lay a lapping bar into the scope rings and if it moves freely, I put the scope on, if not, I'll lap a bit until the finish inside the rings shows me full or nearly full contact.

Rifle/scope combinations properly assembled and stress-free will often shoot multiple loads quite well and mostly to the same POA/POI.

None of the above is a guarantee a rifle will shoot well, but, it does shorten up the list of things a person needs to look for if it doesn't. If the above is all correct you're down to issues with the bore (pits/corrosion/excessive fouling), crown, stability of the projectile @ current twist and velocity, or the scope itself having issues.

 

[luvcatchingbass]

theoretically this new tech sounds interesting, but I wouldnt adapt it if it wasnt feasible to reload. I wonder what kind of case life youd get out of these stronger steel cases. Do you need special primers also to contain that pressure? Im assuming brass primers would fail.

There is already some info about reloading case's "can" get 6-8 loads before the case's start to crack but in that same breath from the same guy 3-4 was most likely before case cracking, I don't remember the podcast but think it was Backcountry Hunting and i think he said the info came directly from Federal. Pretty sure there is nothing special about primers outside of probably using higher quality primers

 

[Wall-eyes]

I am a 7mm freak have seen that very crazy for sure. Only $50 to $60 bucks box heard cant reload yet

 

[SupressYourself]

To me, the better solution was the hybrid cases that the .277 Fury uses. That way you have a steel case head to take the punishment of the high pressure, but the rest of the case is brass, so it should reload as normal.

 

[SDMF]

To me, the better solution was the hybrid cases that the .277 Fury uses. That way you have a steel case head to take the punishment of the high pressure, but the rest of the case is brass, so it should reload as normal.

Hard to say w/the nickel plating on the 7BC, it may be the same….

 

[SupressYourself]

I know I'd like to get my hands on some of those hybrid cases. I don't think it would be hard to size / form them into 6.5 Creed. Stuff it full of Varget, or maybe something faster, and break 3100 FPS with a 140.
-- I can already hit 3000fps with Reloder 26, but I have to vibrate each case to get all the powder to fit in there.