No licenses for non landowners

NDSportsman

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I don't think he is blaming the G&F, but I AM for not making the most popular big game animal on the North American Continent and in North Dakota a bigger priority for sound scientific management. The landowners have very little to do with determining tag numbers so why is it so common to pound on THEM when people don't get a deer tag?? Pound on the people that SHOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU why you didn't get a tag. It would be so simple to post the survey data from each unit from each year on their webpage and stop all the bickering between interested parties from all sides of this issue. NUMBERS DON"T LIE!!!! Habitat Destruction, Bad Winters, EHD Outbreaks, Hunting, and every other factor impacting white tail deer numbers would be measurable and thus predictable. Low numbers of deer equal low tags and vice versa. If deer numbers were so low in my unit that only the landowners will get tags and the G&F could show me the data supporting that fact, I would fully support suspending the deer hunting seasons in my unit. ALL HUNTING SEASONS. I'm beginning to think the G&F is purposely NOT trying to find out how many deer there are in each unit as then the politics of tag numbers would be eliminated and the infighting between factions could be moderated. Look what's going on right here on NDA. We are bickering among ourselves and the anti's must be giggling with glee. Properly and politely place frustration and displeasure upon those that can affect a change IMO is a better plan. In this case, the NDGF. Punching the cab driver because you got thrown out of a bar will probably NOT get you safely home.
Private landowners determine the amount of deer in ND and thus the amount of tags that can be issued. 15 years ago a huge percentage of landowners were drawing a CRP check and deer numbers were at all time highs. They still had people pissing and moaning. Now virtually all of the CRP, trees and habitat is gone and deer numbers are back to early '80s numbers and people are still pissing and moaning. That appears to be the only given. It's a sure bet that whatever the next 10-15 years brings someone will be pissing and moaning about it. lol
 


Lycanthrope

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I'm not a farmer, but why would I lobby for giving up a perk of being a landowner?? Are you saying if you inherited 160 acres of river bottom you wouldn't put in for a gratis tag??? Would you also lobby to give up your opportunity to get a deer tag every year??
Im not saying I wouldnt put in for one, Ive actually considered buying land just so I get one. But do I DESERVE one? Probably not, at least if you go by the original intentions of the gratis. Also I know many farmers/ranchers 'cheat' the system by leasing land to their children/relatives for pennies a year so the qualify for a gratis, while the original farmer still farms and profits from the land. I dont know the specifics about how this works, but I know it is done and its relatively easy to do. Increasing the requirements to 640 would at least make it a little harder for the cheaters to load up on gratis tags and eliminate a bunch of people who shouldnt get one in the first place from getting on every year. Under the current system, 168000 gratis tags could be given out each year, that doesnt leave much room for non land owning hunters. Increasing the min amount of land would reduce the total possible number of gratis tags to 42000/year and seems like a wise thing to do. This should have very little effect on honest farmers/ranchers and would eliminate many people who shouldnt be getting tags anyway, under the original intent of this ordinance.
 

gst

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Right, like when you bend your hat brim to get into the mailbox for your free guaranteed gratis tag.

See how that works for you just as well as the folks you like to pin that label on?

I would gladly pay the $30 for the gratis tag.

Just took out about 10 bushels of cracked corn again to about 6 different cat tail sloughs yesterday to scatter around for the pheasants. Probably about the 8th time this winter. They seem to be doing well also.
 
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BDub

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Fishing is normally really good about deer hunting season.

And if it makes anyone feel better, a friend and I have decided to hang up shooting muleys even though there are a great plenty where I hunt. We are going after the elusive whitetail and let others go after the muleys.

Possibly time to work on the boat and tackle box. Open water is here.
 

gst

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ND sportsman, where have I "demanded" a gratis tag? Up until three years ago in the almost 40 years of hunting deer I think I had gotten maybe two.

We now just apply for gratis (yes becasue it is guaranteed) and hunt around home because we get tired of the crap you run into out hunting.

The question regarding deer numbers is tied to what you are bitching about because if the G&F actually do a better job at managing deer, there should not be many occasions at all where the gratis tags take all the tags in a unit.

Funny, I don;t typically have trouble gaining access to posted lands when I travel away from home in this state. But then again I put the effort into contacting people I may know and get names of people before hand instead of showing up wanting to shoot the big buck that just ran in behind their house and have found most people are still pretty good people.
 


arrowdem

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I would gladly pay the $30 for the gratis tag.

Just took out about 10 bushels of cracked corn again to about 6 different cat tail sloughs yesterday to scatter around for the pheasants. Probably about the 8th time this winter. They seem to be doing well also.


baiting pheasants.. you are such a low life.. get it together.... :;:muahaha :;:stirthepot :;:cheers
 

gst

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Private landowners determine the amount of deer in ND and thus the amount of tags that can be issued. 15 years ago a huge percentage of landowners were drawing a CRP check and deer numbers were at all time highs. They still had people pissing and moaning. Now virtually all of the CRP, trees and habitat is gone and deer numbers are back to early '80s numbers and people are still pissing and moaning. That appears to be the only given. It's a sure bet that whatever the next 10-15 years brings someone will be pissing and moaning about it. lol

And yet people piss and moan about them getting a tag.

We still have far more deer up here than in the early 80s.

In the early 80s around here if you shot a buck in the 130's you had a chance at winning most any big buck contest around. 140 and you were almost a shoe in.

Now this year it was a 170's that won it (a 180 that wasn;t entered from down by stanley I think.) and a handful of 160's there and several 150's.
 
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remm

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All these posts in only one day, 75% of them providing nothing but bitching back and forth. I seem to remember this stuff happening on another site every year, about this time of year. I can about imagine what this thread would turn into if we were having a tough winter.
Keep after it boys, good entertainment.
 

ShootnBlanks

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G&F is far from perfect. I haven't had a gun tag in 3 years. That said, I am very thankful for the youth tag. I've been able to share the hunting tradition with my 2 oldest daughters and will forever share the memory with them of harvesting their first deer. I hope that program stays around for my youngest 2 daughters and everyone with a youngster interested in hunting.
 


Sum1

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Judging by that chart on the first page I may as well sell my muzzle loader. the odds of ever getting drawn are next to nothing.
 

DirtyMike

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We put in for does one year because we knew buck tags were going to be thin. We hunt because we love deer sausage, breakfast patties/links, and summer sausage. Somewhere along the years, that mentality has switched to harvesting the biggest buck alive and it made everyone gather up their toys, go home, and lock the door. Once we get away from those ideals, deer camp will once again, become deer camp.

We own two sections north of new salem and yet we don't apply for a gratis tag. Hell I haven't hunted the land for anything in years.
 

arrowdem

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We put in for does one year because we knew buck tags were going to be thin. We hunt because we love deer sausage, breakfast patties/links, and summer sausage. Somewhere along the years, that mentality has switched to harvesting the biggest buck alive and it made everyone gather up their toys, go home, and lock the door. Once we get away from those ideals, deer camp will once again, become deer camp.

We own two sections north of new salem and yet we don't apply for a gratis tag. Hell I haven't hunted the land for anything in years.

for me its a pride thing, not just shooting big mature deer, but just having them on your land, putting in the time and energy to put in the plots get the trail cameras out there and harvest a smart mature deer? nothing better than that to me, i could shoot younger deer on almost every sit, nothing against the strictly meat guys everyone should hunt the way that they enjoy hunting, but to say that me wanting to go after more mature deer because i like the challenge isnt the right way to hunt isnt right... agreed?
 

Kentucky Windage

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What happens if, for example, there are 2000 tags available for a unit, and 2500 land owners apply for a gratis tag? Does the NDGF issue 2500 tags or do they create a lottery within the gratis tag applications and 500 landowners go without?
 

Lycanthrope

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My sons at this point in their life one in college and one in high school certainly are making their sole "living" on the revenues from these cattle. And yes indeed the gratis tag was always for a guaranteed tag for those that deal daily with the impacts this wildlife make. Do you really think the $30 dollars was because a farmer could not afford the deer tag simply because they made their sole living from ag?

A betting man would likely bet that everyone here bitching would be the first ones sending in for their gratis tag if they could. And these same people would be the very first ones to close access to their lands if some one tried to change that tag system too much.

Do you think it is right that ranch kid that borrows monies at the bank to buy cattle and rent pasture he fixes fence on that the deer break every year maybe makes enough to buy a new snowmobile after saving for three years while the kid bagging groceries who spends his monies on X Box games does not?

Some here want Bernie Sanders running the G&F.

Lemme guess, your sons are "renting" this land from you?
 


DirtyMike

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for me its a pride thing, not just shooting big mature deer, but just having them on your land, putting in the time and energy to put in the plots get the trail cameras out there and harvest a smart mature deer? nothing better than that to me, i could shoot younger deer on almost every sit, nothing against the strictly meat guys everyone should hunt the way that they enjoy hunting, but to say that me wanting to go after more mature deer because i like the challenge isnt the right way to hunt isnt right... agreed?

Nope, not at all. I would take the big deer every year if I happened to put the time in/run across said deer. Nothing wrong with trophy hunting. Just don't constantly complain about not drawing a mulie tag in the badlands when every person understands that it's not a yearly tag. My boss just waited 7 years to go after a mulie again. I don't see the point in pulling a trigger on a nice mulie every seven years. I'm able to chase them with a bow every fall, which is good enough for me. I'm not saying the everyone needs to switch their mentality back to meat hunters, but you can't argue the fact that the world of hunting shows and pictures of big deer on the internet haven't turned the vast majority of hunters into horn hunters. When that happens, land gets shut down because they're chasing "the big one."

All in all, I'm not going to judge anyone that goes after the antler size vs. meat. What I look for in a deer should be accepted in the same fashion as someone else. But when I don't get drawn for a buck tag in 3b3, you won't see me on here complaining about land owners/gratis tags/etc. Even the one year where my dad and I didn't draw, we still put the orange on and drove around our home unit because it was time to spend together. I tend not to let the trivial aspects of deer hunting get in the way of what that time is really about.

Arrowdem, I hope you do get drawn. It sucks to sit for years without firing a gun. I'm in no way attacking you personally.
 

arrowdem

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i didnt figure you did.. and its looking like my buddy and i have an 87% chance of drawing ( based on last years stats ) to chase mulies out there.. that would be a damn good time!
 

gst

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Lemme guess, your sons are "renting" this land from you?

Nope, their grand father. write him a check every spring. Pay the bank what they owe for the cattle they have bought every winter after they sell their calves.
 

1pingonly

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I know some farmers doubled their income during the crp heyday simply by putting up another mailbox. Right next to their "posted sign".
 


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