No Trespass Prognostication

[guywhofishes]

As both a landowner and a hunter who hunts unposted private land, I'd like to understand what the effects of a no trespass law would have in ND. A few things come to mind but I'd like to hear from others including those that live in states that already have such a law and get your perspectives.

I'm not looking for general opinions of pro/con (I know the answer ha ha) as much as I'm looking for prognostication with regards to how it will play out if such a law were to pass.

I'm not convinced that it's all good and no bad for landowners - even for landowners who don't hunt anyone else's property. Here's what's rattling around in my head on this issue.

1. I've asked this before but forget the answer: Other states have no-trespass laws but people post most everything regardless. Why is this? Is it because in western MN people visiting from ND trespass if there are no signs because they are used to that system "at home"? So it seems like nobody is going to be freed from the task/expense of posting their land - at least not for a generation. True or false?

2. Will there suddenly be much more pressure on PLOTS, game management, state, etc.? Or will permission calls just increase a lot and people will continue to hunt unposted land, but after having obtained permission.

3. I understand it's not that easy/common for enforcement of no trespass. And law enforcement, not wardens, handle this. Won't enforcement calls "go through the roof" and create an overwhelmed law enforcement situation? I can't imagine the uptick each season opener.

4. Some people were born to cheat. Right now there's a lot of land unposted so they're "satisfied with what they have to hunt", with an occasional cheat here/there if they see game while driving around. If suddenly everything is posted, will this create more people that have a chip on their shoulder about landowners and develop an "oh well, I'll just hunt wherever" attitude. True or false?

5. What's the current trespass penalty? - and is it sufficient to act as a deterrent?

6. Would a no trespass law prevent jackholes from tearing down signs and offering up the "I didn't see the poster" or "I didn't see a signature" type excuses? That would be a pro I guess. No more excuses for cheating.

7. Would a tax-payer supported program involving no-cost installation of "walk-in" posting for landowners who don't care maybe take the sting out of things for the non-landowners?

8. Would poaching increase?

These are just a few things I wonder about. In general, it seems like mostly a losing situation for both landowners and non landowners, but maybe it'll just "be different" but will all work itself out in the end?

One thing I can't figure out is what is so broken now that landowners with power/influence need to change it? If they have land, then the majority of them also have the $ to post and the influence to get law enforcement to prosecute. What are landowners actually gaining from such a law? If it's simply freedom from the expense/hassle of posting that seems minor. Is it freedom from the "excuse" guys who claim it wasn't posted properly? What's genuinely driving this movement? I wish I had a better appreciation for the landowner perspective.

 

[Sluggo]

Good questions. I will be watching this thread. I don't hunt anymore but when I did, I treated private land as posted land just because I got chewed out for not asking a few times and I did not like that. So if it were a law it wouldn't impact me, I don't think. I would always look for public, Plots land or gain permission. I also wonder how big of a contingency is pushing for this law. I'm suspicious that it is a squeaky minority. Perhaps a small group of landowners in county X that, if it would pass, would somehow benefit monetarily. Interested to see what the hard core hunters have to say. I'm sure I will learn something

 

[Trey5150]

Just following. As a hunter who hunts exclusively on private lands i am intrigued.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Would a no trespassing law apply in the city as well as in the country ? For some of us it's not necessarily as much about hunting on your property as it keeping people from stealing stuff off while on your property, or dumping off old appliances in random areas. I could cry when I think about some of the items that have disappeared over the years. Posted signs don't work, I'm all for no a trespassing law year around.

 

[guywhofishes]

So maybe there just needs to be a better enforcement and stiffer penalties for current laws?

 

[Radar13]

There are a lot of land owners that don't want to be bothered by people asking to hunt, and are kinda jerks about it. I went to a door to ask about Dove hunting. the guys first comments were " is this shit starting already? no you can't fucking hunt, I hope you can shoot better then you can read" and I have had other land owners say no but not as brutal as that guy, but I drove away thinking holy crap I am not coming back here again, So I am a little leary about asking permission, So I hunt unposted and plots land mostly, I can see a couple more years of hunting and maybe and hanging it up. maybe it is time for a classic car to spend money on. Probably get a nice Cuda for what I spend on hunting, If no tresspass laws were here I would be done hunting sooner then later

 

[eyexer]

several things I would be will happen
1. An initiated measure the very next election to undo it.
2. Game and Fish will have to be at a minimum partially funded by the general fund
3. Road hunting will soar
4. Poaching will go up
5. Calls to wardens will skyrocket creating a lot of wasted time for them
6. The amount of money spent on plots will go up and the game and fish will have to secure the money from the legislature
7. Sales of licenses will plummet
8. The amount of coyotes will skyrocket causing a shit pile of unforeseen issues

 

[Obi-Wan]

Would a no trespassing law apply in the city as well as in the country ? For some of us it's not necessarily as much about hunting on your property as it keeping people from stealing stuff off while on your property, or dumping off old appliances in random areas. I could cry when I think about some of the items that have disappeared over the years. Posted signs don't work, I'm all for no a trespassing law year around.

.

If this illegal activity is happening on your land that is already posted how would another law prevent it?

 

[Reprobait]

A change wouldn't stop the people that are ignoring the signs and trespassing now. It would just affect the people trying to do it right. I would expect more pressure on public/PLOT ground, maybe not a lot. It could affect $$$ coming into game and fish if fewer licenses are sold. I would guess that fewer non-residents will buy licenses more than residents.

- - - Updated - - -

I ran into a guy a few weeks ago at the gas station. He could see I was pheasant hunting and told me about a chunk of land he owned and said I could go hunt it. I asked him if his name was on the signs. He said he doesn't post it and fewer people hunt it now than the number that hunted it illegally when he had it posted.

 

[Davey Crockett]

So maybe there just needs to be a better enforcement and stiffer penalties for current laws?

I'd love to see that but it seems like trying to grab water with your hand. LEO's are reluctant to pursue because of all the technicalities that they have been drug through so many times over the years.


Like , Was the land posted properly ? Did someone tear down a sign ? Or did the owner claim he had one up but didn't ? It pretty much turns into a landowners word against the accused and the innocent until proven guilty rule comes into play. Also the mentality that because someone had permission once they have this get out of jail free card in their pocket.

When I think about all of my stuff that has ended up missing over the years emotions take over , I'm not happy that hunters would have to ask to hunt but that is beyond my control.

 

[Migrator Man]

Here is how WY works:
There is a ton of public land that is about 50/50 which is far more than ND which is at 5%.
A majority of the people in WY rely on these public lands because most private land is outfitted. Asking permission in WY is not like it is in ND. Chances of getting permission without a fee is slim and some people even have signs saying don’t ask for permission. Close friends is about the only people who get on, family doesnt even get an automatic access. If ND passes a no trespass law then our public lands will be bombarded with people and many will quit hunting because of this shit show. Can you imagine trying to recruit hunters into the sport? I honestly dont know how a guy would pheasant hunt with this law as to ask permission to hunt little patches of brush in multiple places would be a bug task. ND is a much different place than MT and WY and our laws should reflect that or expect it never to be the same again.

 

[Sum1]

The ditches NEED to be open to hunting. They should be already.

 

[Retired Educator]

I hunt both public land and private land. My observations are that even the posted land doesn't mean they don't allow hunting Those that don't usually have a valid reason; opening weekend and I have family coming home to hunt, someone has already received permission etc. Sometimes it's because someone has leased the property for hunting rights, not common in the areas I hunt. So for me, the getting permission isn't the biggest headache, in many cases it's finding the landowner/operator to get permission. In many cases it's not like the person you need to talk to lives anywhere near the land you want to hunt. I would think upland hunting would be the biggest chore as many times it's drive to find some good looking cover. Same thing for the coyote hunters in the state. Not a lot of them but that is a sport that generally covers a lot of ground at a time of the year when many landowner/operators might be snowbirds.

When I have hunted in other states that have trespass laws (most of them) it's doable and requires more planning. On the positive side, you will probably find some new friends by contacting and visiting with the person you're asking permission. You may find some jackasses but you will also find some who are just as interested in you as you are them.

Will it change the hunting ND? For sure, but it won't stop me. Just change how I/we hunt.

 

[feather_duster]

 

[Reprobait]

I am more worried if this should pass of what things might look like down the road. Landowners and farmers are aging. Down the road land being farmed by fewer mega farms with the actual landowner living out of state is going to become more common. It is going to be awful tough finding people to ask for permission.

 

[eyexer]

I am more worried if this should pass of what things might look like down the road. Landowners and farmers are aging. Down the road land being farmed by fewer mega farms with the actual landowner living out of state is going to become more common. It is going to be awful tough finding people to ask for permission.

It already is happening. 1800-2000 acres used to be an average farm. Now that's hobby farming. And more go south in the winter because far less are raising livestock so there is no reason to be here in the fall, winter and early spring. We also need a law that prevents renters from posting rented land. Only the actual owner should be able to do that.

 

[Downrigger]

OnX maps are going to make a killing.

 

[Kickemup]

If ND had 30% public land I wouldn't care if it got passed but with it being 5 to 10% and most of it being western side of the state that makes it hard to get out and hunt.

 

[Reprobait]

OnX maps are going to make a killing.

The OnX in the area I am in shows landowners that have been dead for a few years.

 

[NDbowman]

I'm a land owner that posts most of my land. I see both sides of this issue. I've heard from many landowners that would like to see this passed. I don't really feel that this is the answer. I think the current laws are ok but maybe need stiffer penalties. I almost always let anyone that asks hunt except for deer. I have my honey holes I like to keep for myself and friends. They only thing I think this law would stop is road shooters (note I don't call it road hunting because it isn't hunting). Assholes that are breaking the current laws will continue to do so even if this no tresspass bill passes. Ban Idiots not Access.