Parents charged with 4 counts involuntary manslaughter

[Obi-Wan]

I took this off the prosecutors facebook page.



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[NDSportsman]

Don't see how they can be convicted of manslaughter but they should definitely be charged with accessory to murder for providing him the gun and not getting him the help he obviously needed. There were all kinds of signs he was disturbed and they apparently turned a blind eye to it. That deserves some type of punishment IMO.

 

[eyexer]

They never said how it was locked up, maybe he found the key

The part that I find interesting is that the prosecutor said it was kept in a drawer in the parents bedroom but does not mention if the drawer has a lock on it. The defense attorney claimed the gun was locked up. Did the prosecutor intentionally leave the locked up part out? The defense also accused the prosecutor of cherry picking the information they have given out to fit their narrative to which the prosecutor replied they are not required by law to give out all the information they have to the public.

well if we learned anything from the rittenhouse trial we learned prosecuters leave all kinds of valuable info out

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Don't see how they can be convicted of manslaughter but they should definitely be charged with accessory to murder for providing him the gun and not getting him the help he obviously needed. There were all kinds of signs he was disturbed and they apparently turned a blind eye to it. That deserves some type of punishment IMO.

I assume he has been receiving medical care for mental health. If so, I would think if they charge the parents of manslaughter you have to charge the doctor too

 

[Obi-Wan]

well if we learned anything from the rittenhouse trial we learned prosecuters leave all kinds of valuable info out

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I assume he has been receiving medical care for mental health. If so, I would think if they charge the parents of manslaughter you have to charge the doctor too

Leaving out known valuable information from the public is one thing but intentionally leaving it out in a court proceeding which determines ones freedom is completely unacceptable. I would think the fact, if shown to be true, that the gun was locked up is extremely important in this case

 

[eyexer]

Leaving out known valuable information from the public is one thing but intentionally leaving it out in a court proceeding which determines ones freedom is completely unacceptable. I would think the fact, if shown to be true, that the gun was locked up is extremely important in this case

Absolutely.

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So if there is a lock on that drawer I think this would be over in a couple days. How would they prove it wasn’t locked. And I also think if was in the drawer locked or unlocked won’t matter. Or shouldn’t

 

[Kurtr]

well if we learned anything from the rittenhouse trial we learned prosecuters leave all kinds of valuable info out

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I assume he has been receiving medical care for mental health. If so, I would think if they charge the parents of manslaughter you have to charge the doctor too

what you just did there is no better than the media. Assuming what has been done . Why not wait for all the facts to come out. You made a statement to fit the narrative you want which is the same problem all the media has.

 

[Rut2much]

This is a very steep and slippery slope along w/ being a dangerous precedent any which way you slice it. #dumb

 

[2090]

There is no statute of limitations on murder. That being said, do we need to go all the way back to Columbine and start charging parents?? This is absolutely liberals playing their agenda for banning guns and more gun control. INSANITY!! Hopefully it never sees the inside of a courtroom!!

 

[Kurtr]

Everyone talks responsibility and parenting till it’s time to be responsible and do parenting shit. Each case needs to be evaluated with the facts at hand. Maybe if parents know they might have some skin in the game they might pay attention vs letting the tv and Xbox raise their kid.

 

[Traxion]

Remember there are LAWYERS on both sides. I can see the prosecutor leaving out the detail that the gun was locked up AND I can see the defense saying it was locked up, knowing it can't be proved. There are three people that know the location and locked status of that handgun and I'm guessing all three will say it was locked up given their circumstances. I'm not ready to say either side is playing "fair".

I don't know that we know details of the meeting at school, but if I'd have to guess I'd say culpability lays upon the parents for not taking him out of the school situation knowing what they knew. While I understand nobody thinks that their kid is going to do something so horrible, you don't have the chance to be reactive in this situation (which by text messages it looks like mom was). I work in public education and am baffled by the series of events, yet not surprised. If a student makes threats or other disturbing signs are shown, parents are met with and the student is not allowed to be in school until a threat assessment is done. That may take days, but the student is not allowed back. Now, when I say "is not", I don't know that we have been challenged by parents unwilling to remove their student like it looks like happened in this situation. I know we have had other situations where parents said "too bad, I am not going to take them out. He/she is your responsibility from 8-3:30" and walked away. And in these cases, the school had little they could do. I'm not an administrator, but my knowledge of the process is that it is extremely difficult to get kids out of school without going through every step. I feel a threat as this should be immediate cause for out of school suspension (until threat assessment is done), but I don't know that it is really that clear on the school's end. This will be used as a case study for years to come in crisis management and school law courses. But, bottom line, if the parents refused to take him out of school and the school didn't have the means to remove him, the parents may have assumed some culpability in the scenario.

It is an incredibly slippery slope. I'm not sure where it will go. Ultimately, there was one person who pulled the trigger.

Another thing I'd say is that there is an overflow of young kids who need mental health services in our public schools. Why I don't know, but it can literally be weeks before students can get in and see counselors and receive services. Keep in mind that school counselors ARE NOT mental health counselors. Even here in the Dakotas, this is a serious issue. If you can help support more mental health services for kids, please do!

 

[Migrator Man]

Don't see how they can be convicted of manslaughter but they should definitely be charged with accessory to murder for providing him the gun and not getting him the help he obviously needed. There were all kinds of signs he was disturbed and they apparently turned a blind eye to it. That deserves some type of punishment IMO.

Accessory to murder is the same as murder and much harder to prove than involuntary manslaughter….. question is when the signs started. If the school let him back to class why would a parent take more precautions than the school?

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well if we learned anything from the rittenhouse trial we learned prosecuters leave all kinds of valuable info out

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I assume he has been receiving medical care for mental health. If so, I would think if they charge the parents of manslaughter you have to charge the doctor too

Why would you charge a doctor? Unless the kid told a doctor he was going to kill they are not liable for this. The school said they never had issues with the kid before

 

[sl1000794]

Former high-ranking U.S. Attorney Andrew McCarthy on charges against Crumbley parents.

McCarthy made these comments yesterday on Neil Cavuto.

Andrew McCarthy — “I really think it’s outrageous, I mean I understand it because people are very hot, emotions are very raw, this was a heinous heinous act.”

“It’s going to be the subject of a prosecution where the kid who did the shooting who’s going to be treated as an adult which the prosecutors have the discretion to do is appropriately looking at multiple life counts and attempted murder counts, you know he can’t live long enough to serve the number of years that are going to be imposed in this case but we’re not supposed to make criminal law on the fly,” he said.

“And the state of Michigan has considered a number of times enacting a law, this child access prevention law that many states have adopted which would make criminal what happened here which was the that the parents allowed the child to get access to the weapon. But the state of Michigan has decided not to enact that law.”

“And you can argue that that’s a good thing or a bad thing but the fact is it’s a thing and it’s up to the legislature to make the criminal law so what happened here is they don’t have a law to prosecute what the parents did even though the legislature’s considered it and not enacted it.”

“So at a time when everybody’s hot and emotions are raw, prosecutors are creating a crime on the fly to attach to these parents and if you think about it, doesn’t make much more sense to accuse them of complicity in murder as opposed to the reprehensible negligence that they engaged in than it makes to accuse the school officials of murder.”

“I mean, yes, everybody dropped the ball here but let’s be real about who committed the murder and who didn’t.”

Cavuto then posed the question: “Has this become the first time, at least to your memory anywhere right away the parents have become caught up in in the charges here?”

“I’ve never heard of a case where you see parents get charged under circumstances where there’s no evidence that they had any complicity in a plan or something where you know there was an actual objective to kill people and I’ve seen a lot of cases like this and they’re … you want to wring the necks of the people who are involved in them.”

“I was involved, for example, in terrorism investigations where people sold components that were obviously components for explosives like explosive powder to people who were very suspicious characters and wanted to pay in cash and made you think that, you know, boy these guys must be up to no good.”

“Nobody thought that once a building got bombed and people got killed that the store owners who lawfully sold these components to these suspicious characters should have been charged with terrorism crimes even though you wanted to grab each of them by the lapels and say what on earth were you thinking.”

 

[Traxion]

If the school let him back to class why would a parent take more precautions than the school?

The schools are there to educate our kids, not be a mental health screening service for parents. I see too many parents who just dump their kids off at school to be the schools' problem, rather than taking responsibility for their kid & behavior or even being aware of issues they are having. I don't know many good parents who would be shown his notes/sketches that wouldn't have said, OK, we will get him our of here and into counseling NOW. Even more so knowing he had access to a handgun. Now, maybe there were other circumstances (financial, etc) made it hard for them to remove him or get counseling. But, keep in mind the school may have not wanted him there, but since the parents wouldn't take him they had to keep him in the building. Schools can't just kick a kid out and lock the door saying "don't come back". They bear the responsibility of that student's whereabouts during the school day. Let's say they did kick this kid out on the street and he then takes the gun and hurts himself. Now, the narrative is flipped and it is the schools fault for kicking him out. I am biased, but the school was in an absolute no-win situation here since the parents wouldn't take him out. Now, why nobody checked him over or asked more questions (maybe they did, we don't know) needs to be understood. I'm not saying the parents should be guilty of the charges, but they sure as heck should not be just waiting for the school to get worked up about their kids mental health. Being called to a meeting and shown what he had written was plenty alarming IMO.

 

[Obi-Wan]

The schools are there to educate our kids, not be a mental health screening service for parents. I see too many parents who just dump their kids off at school to be the schools' problem, rather than taking responsibility for their kid & behavior or even being aware of issues they are having. I don't know many good parents who would be shown his notes/sketches that wouldn't have said, OK, we will get him our of here and into counseling NOW. Even more so knowing he had access to a handgun. Now, maybe there were other circumstances (financial, etc) made it hard for them to remove him or get counseling. But, keep in mind the school may have not wanted him there, but since the parents wouldn't take him they had to keep him in the building. Schools can't just kick a kid out and lock the door saying "don't come back". They bear the responsibility of that student's whereabouts during the school day. Let's say they did kick this kid out on the street and he then takes the gun and hurts himself. Now, the narrative is flipped and it is the schools fault for kicking him out. I am biased, but the school was in an absolute no-win situation here since the parents wouldn't take him out. Now, why nobody checked him over or asked more questions (maybe they did, we don't know) needs to be understood. I'm not saying the parents should be guilty of the charges, but they sure as heck should not be just waiting for the school to get worked up about their kids mental health. Being called to a meeting and shown what he had written was plenty alarming IMO.

The school had a resource officer there that day which they didn't bother to report the incident to or include in the meeting. The sheriff said if they would have been included they would have removed the kid from the school and made sure he didn't have access to weapons. The school had options but did not use them.

 

[Achucker]

The school had a resource officer there that day which they didn't bother to report the incident to or include in the meeting. The sheriff said if they would have been included they would have removed the kid from the school and made sure he didn't have access to weapons. The school had options but did not use them.

The school should be liable too

 

[Bfishn]

Oh the school along with the parents will certainly be involved in civil lawsuits. Those of you trying to absolve the parents of any blame and blame the schools instead are the exact reason there are so many entitled little shits these days. Nothing is the parents or kids fault anymore, it’s always the schools or somebody else’s. Raise your damn kids properly and quit blaming every other damn person. You had the little bastards and more often than not their actions are a direct result of shitty parenting.

 

[ORCUS DEMENS]

Not sure on Michigan state laws, but when you buy a gun, you have to sign an affidavit of no mental illness. If as it seems these parents bought a handgun for their child, that apparently had mental issues, there is the first criminal offense.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Not sure on Michigan state laws, but when you buy a gun, you have to sign an affidavit of no mental illness. If as it seems these parents bought a handgun for their child, that apparently had mental issues, there is the first criminal offense.

. When buying a gun the questions on the form are about the one purchasing the gun. While it is illegal To take money and buy a gun for someone else it is not illegal to buy a gun as a gift for someone. As far as the kids mental health there has been nothing shown that the parents knew the issues the kid was having. The school has said they never had any behavioral or any other issues with the kid prior to the day before the shooting.

 

[eyexer]

what you just did there is no better than the media. Assuming what has been done . Why not wait for all the facts to come out. You made a statement to fit the narrative you want which is the same problem all the media has.

huge difference I’m not the media. I’m not sure why you even made that statement to me when we are simply having s discussion amongst people we discuss things with everyday. And if you make this claim about my statement you could make that claim on about 75% of these posts. :;:huh

 

[Kurtr]

huge difference I’m not the media.

You should look up the definition of hypocrisy. You can’t have it both ways bang on liberals for making shit up while you make shit up.