Pheasant Politics

Fritz the Cat

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Fritz the politicians cover their behind and do things behind the scene. That's stupid. I often wonder who made the decision to give a bull elk depredation permit year after year to ranchers. That doesn't sound like a biological decision to me. Perhaps this is one of those areas where the people determine the goal. However, as a citizen of North Dakota I don't think I was ever given a vote on that, or a chance to voice my opinion with my legislator. Hmmm behind the scene I would venture a guess.

Many can remember the small herd of elk south west of Pick City along the Missouri River. The landowners thought they were neat. But the numbers grew and so did depredation. Hard antlered bulls would swing them in row crops and lay down wide swaths. In the fall during rut they would come into yards. One wrecked a swing set and small children had to stay indoors. During winter when the ranchers fed their cows the elk bulls would eat first.

The ranchers tolerated this but then thought why not. They shot a satellite bull and split it between several. They even talked it around. Didn't take long for the law to show. Said elk meat right on the packages. Fines levied.

The landowners said that's it, come get your elk. During the round up elk got killed and maimed. Everyone lost including the elk.

Lapper, sounds like you have two great GOP candidates running for Gov.

- - - Updated - - -

PG, here is the question I posed:

Can you provide some examples to your claim where voters validated through the stupid politicians they elect, have obstructed "trained" biologists from doing the jobs that they were hired to do?

You brought up this elk depredation permit thing. Gst's last post brought it to our attention that was a House Bill 1396 from 2017. It failed 0-92.

You're going to have to do better.
Can you provide some examples to your claim where voters validated through the stupid politicians they elect, have obstructed "trained" biologists from doing the jobs that they were hired to do?
 


MathewsZman

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Considering this thread has politics in it's title, it sure feels political.

Feels more like a third grade school yard fight . All finger points and name calling but no one brave enough to throw a real punch ! And the leaders are probably all going to run home and tell their mommy !
 

gst

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Feels more like a third grade school yard fight . All finger points and name calling but no one brave enough to throw a real punch ! And the leaders are probably all going to run home and tell their mommy !

Why then would you feel the need to even post here unless you are going to be one of those pushing and shoving and not throwing a "real punch"??

Why does there need to be punches thrown??? Share some simple facts, have an adult like conversation regarding those facts. and let people make up their own minds.

People sure seem to have an issue with the simple truth and fact being share with people now a days. Was over having coffee with my folks a while back watching Fox News and somebody was whinging about "fake news" and my 84 year old "Mommy" said it best ........."fake news ......that's the problem with people today....why not call it what it is ......lying".


It is easier to turn an adult discussion into a 3rd grade play ground fight than speak to the truth any more ...instead of wearing army boots now yo momma is a greedy, racist, pervert.........
 


gst

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;:;banghead

Who would like ot bet a steak supper if Williams did not mention farmers plains would have never shared this clip??


Plains you spent your whole career living off the expense of others taking Walter Williams monies while adding to the bueracracy "more govt control over our lives" What did your career ever add of actual value that gave this nation something to sell to generate revenues? More regulatory red tape is the legacy govt agencies such as what you worked for leave We the people. Thankfully Trump is pulling back the reins on those agencies such as you worked for.

Williams touts Madison and the fears the people of New York had of a govt that would expand their powers. Madison explained the powers granted the govt were "few and well defined" while the "powers left to the people and the state are indefinate and numerous". And Williams hits the nail squarely on the head when he says what we have NOW are the powers of the Federal govt ore "indefinate and numerous". He is correct when he says we have "betrayed the founders".

And yet time and again plains you advocate for giving and keeping even MORE powers to the Federal govt............perhaps you need to listen again.

I like Walter Williams, but when speaking about liberty he ignores what history has shown us time and time again that a govt whether totalitarian or democracy or even a Constitutional Republic if the people are hungry the govt is over thrown. Control the food, control the people.

Anyways back to the politics of conservation..............
 

PrairieGhost

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Oh come on somebody watch it. ----------- he talks about guns, and how foolish it is to blame guns. He also talks about how we are not getting more liberties, but loosing liberties. He is dead right on how it is happening also. He mentions federal gov, but he forgot to mention the supreme court usurping powers that the constitution did not give them. He also speaks of the disrespect for our constitution today. I forget his book, but he wrote one on that subject. I could go on, but I hope this is enough to get people interested. I think he at times stands in for Rush Limbaugh. I like him better last night, and couldn't disagree with much of anything.
 

gst

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A CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO
by Mark Levin

I. TAXATION
Eliminate the progressive income tax--replace it with a flat income tax or national sales tax--for its purpose is to redistribute wealth, not fund the constitutionally legitimate functions of the federal government.
All residents of the country must be required to pay the tax so they have a stake in limiting its abuse.
Eliminate the automatic withholding of taxes, for it conceals the extent to which the federal government is confiscating income for its citizens.
Eliminate the corporate income tax, for it is nothing more than double taxation on shareholders and consumers, and penalizes wealth and job creation.
Eliminate the death tax, for it denies citizens the right to confer the material value they have created during their lives to whom ever they wish, including their family.
All federal income tax increases will require a super majority vote of three-fifths of Congress.
Limit federal spending each year to less than 20 percent of the gross domestic product.
2. ENVIRONMENT
Eliminate the special tax-exempt status granted to environmental groups, since they are not non partisan charitable foundations.
Eliminate special statutory authority granting environmental groups standing to bring lawsuits on behalf of the public, since their main purpose is to pursue the Statist's agenda through litigation.
Fight all efforts to use environmental regulations to set governmental industrial policies and diminish the nations standard of living, such as "cap-and-trade" to regulate "man-made climate change."
3. JUDGES


Limit the Supreme Court's judicial-review power, which far exceeds the Framers' intent, by establishing a legislative veto over Court decisions--perhaps a two-thirds super majority vote of both houses of Congress, not dissimilar from the congressional; override authority of a presidential veto.
Eliminate lifetime tenure for federal judges, given the extra-constitutional power they have amassed and their routine intervention in political and policy decisions--which the Constitution leaves to the representative branches.
No judicial nominee should be confirmed who rejects the jurisprudence of originalism.
4. THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE
Sunset all "independent" federal agencies each year, subject to Congress affirmatively reestablishing them.
Require federal departments and agencies to reimburse individuals and enterprises for the costs associated with the devaluation of their private property from the issuance of regulations that compromise the use of their property.
Eliminate unions for federal government employees, since the purpose of a civil service system is to promote merit and professionalism over patronage, and the purpose of federal unions is to empower themselves and promote statism.
Reduce the civilian federal workforce by 20 percent or more.
5. GOVERNMENT EDUCATION
Eliminate monopoly control of government education by applying the antitrust laws to the National Education Association and American Federation of Teachers; the monopoly is destructive of quality education and competition and is unresponsive to the taxpayers who fund it.
Eliminate tenure for government schoolteachers and college/university professors, meaning the accountable for the quality of instruction they provide students..
Strip the statist agenda from curricula (such as multiculturalism and global warming) and replace it with curricula that reinforce actual education and the preservation of the civil society through its core principles.
Eliminate the federal Department of Education, since education is primarily a state and local function.


6. IMMIGRATION
Eliminate chain migration, which grants control over immigration policy to aliens and foreign governments, and which the Statist depends to expand his electoral and administrative state constituency.
Secure the nation's orders and discourage those who violate them--illegal alien and citizen lawbreaker alike--by enforcing the immigration laws.
End multiculturalism, diversity, and bilingualism in public institutions, which beget poverty, animosity, and ethnic balkanization; promote assimilation and unity of citizenship, allegiance to American culture, and English as the official national language.
7. ENTITLEMENTS
Social Security is going bankrupt. Medicare is going bankrupt. medicaid is going bankrupt. These programs and others he accumulated more than $50 trillion in IOUs due and payable by subsequent generations. Educate the young people about the intergenerational trap the Statist has laid for them--which will steal their liberty, labor, opportunities, and wealth--and build a future electoral force or whom the elixir of entitlements is understood as poisonous snake oil. These programs were created in politics and will have to be addressed in politics. Only this way can they be contained, limited, and reformed.
Fight all efforts to nationalize the health-care system. National health care is the mother of all entitlement programs, for through it the Statist controls not only the material wealth of the individual but his physical well-being. Remind the people that politicians and bureaucrats, about whom they are already cynical, will ultimately have the final say over their choice of doctors, hospitals, and treatments--meaning the system will be politicized and bureaucratized.
Remind them that this human experiment has been tried and has failed in polices like Britain and Canada, where patients have been subjected to arbitrary treatment decisions, long waiting periods for lifesaving surgeries, antiquated medical technologies, the denial of high-cost pharmaceuticals available elsewhere, and the inefficient rationing of health care generally. And remind them that despite past utopian promises, the Statist rarely delivers.


8. FOREIGN POLICY AND SECURITY
Ensure that all foreign policy decisions are made for the purpose of preserving and improving American society.
Reject all treaties, entanglements, institutions, and enterprises that have as their purpose the supplantation of America's best interests, including its physical, cultural, economic, and military sovereignty, to an amorphous "global" interest.
Ensure that America remains the world's superpower.
Ensure that at all times America's military forces are prepared for war to dissuade attacks, encourage peace, and, if necessary, win any war.
9. FAITH
Oppose all efforts to denude the nation of its founding justification--that is, God-given unalienable, natural rights that the government can neither confer on the individual nor deny to him.
The Statist seeks the authority to do both, which explains his contempt for, or misuse of, faith. Moreover, faith provides the moral order that ties one generation to the next, and without which the civil society cannot survive.
10. THE CONSTITUTION
Demand that all public servants, elected or appointed, at all times uphold the Constitution and justify their public acts under the Constitution.
Oppose all efforts to "constitutionalize" the statist agenda.
Eliminate limits on and rationing of political free speech through unconstitutional "campaign finance" laws, which benefit incumbent politicians, the media, unions, and other Statist-related groups.
Any American citizen or group of American citizens should be free to contribute to candidates as they wish, as long as the source, amount, and recipient of the contributions are made known.
Defeat all efforts to unconstitutionally regulate the content of political speech on broadcast outlets, such as radio. The Statist now seeks to consolidate the power he has accumulated by silencing non-compliant voices through a variety of schemes that would regulate broadcast content.
 

gst

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I like him better last night, and couldn't disagree with much of anything.

4. THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE
Sunset all "independent" federal agencies each year, subject to Congress affirmatively reestablishing them.
Require federal departments and agencies to reimburse individuals and enterprises for the costs associated with the devaluation of their private property from the issuance of regulations that compromise the use of their property.
Eliminate unions for federal government employees, since the purpose of a civil service system is to promote merit and professionalism over patronage, and the purpose of federal unions is to empower themselves and promote statism.
Reduce the civilian federal workforce by 20 percent or more.

Me too.
 


Fritz the Cat

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If your conservative you will enjoy Lavin interviewing Walter Williams.
htthtp://video.foxnews.com/v/5740351568001/?#sp=show-clips
They just said if a farmer takes your money at gunpoint he goes to jail, but if he gets the IRS to take it from you, and gets a politician to give it to you he is ok. They describe that's how we become socialist. I thought it was really humorous what they chose as an example.

That is an excellent conversation between Lavin and Walter Williams. Walter Williams said, The American people do not like politicians and do not like Congress. But every time there is a problem they want government to do something. Every ones temptation is to live off the expense of others. Farmers want subsidies, the poor want food stamps and businesses want bailouts.

William's example, "the
farmer takes your money at gunpoint he goes to jail, but if he gets the IRS to take it from you, and gets a politician to give it to you he is ok,
is a much safer bet than him saying the "poor" take your money at gunpoint............he would have received hate mail for taking food out of the mouths of babies. And he was on much safer ground using the farmer scenario than businesses want bailouts.

We all know what socialism is. We know the mission creep. But then we part ways PG, you have not found a conservation "spending" Bill that you do not love.

Williams talking about the people not trusting politicians and Congress but every time there is a problem they want government to do something is spot on. That is exactly why this thread blew up. People love to target politicians and agriculture. It's too easy.

PG, I'm still waiting for an
example
to your claim where voters validated through the stupid politicians they elect, have obstructed "trained" biologists from doing the jobs that they were hired to do?
 

PrairieGhost

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PG, I'm still waiting for an example
to your claim where voters validated through the stupid politicians they elect, have obstructed "trained" biologists from doing the jobs that they were hired to do?
Haha how old are you now? You know there is no trail to behind the scene bs.

We all know what socialism is. We know the mission creep. But then we part ways PG, you have not found a conservation "spending" Bill that you do not love.
I'm sure there are many that I am not aware of that I don't like. Since I don't like gov getting to big and to invasive I'm positive I could find one if I look. Being able to remember some would help. Oh, I didn't like payment in kind which was touted as conservation. I didn't consider it conservation, but welfare.

That is an excellent conversation between Lavin and Walter Williams. Walter Williams said, The American people do not like politicians and do not like Congress. But every time there is a problem they want government to do something. Every ones temptation is to live off the expense of others. Farmers want subsidies, the poor want food stamps and businesses want bailouts.

Well you and Walter, and I agree. You should know a couple you could call and see if hell froze over. :;:muahaha
 

gst

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Oh, I didn't like payment in kind which was touted as conservation. I didn't consider it conservation, but welfare.

PIK was conservation funding???

The govt scrambled to find justification for yet another flawed govt program and tried tying it to "conservation" after the fact.

https://www.gao.gov/products/127852

In response to a congressional request, GAO reviewed the Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Payment-in-Kind (PIK) program, focusing on the costs, benefits, and key provisions of the program. The program, aimed at reducing production, paid farmers not to grow certain crops such as corn, grain sorghum, wheat, rice, and cotton, and paid the farmers a prescribed percentage of crops they would have grown instead of cash.
GAO found that the cost of the PIK program was about $10 billion and the largest cost element, the commodities, was used to make payments to participating farmers. The distribution of these payments was proportional to the amount of land taken out of production. Analysis indicated that participation rates varied and, when farmers received direct payments for land that was taken out of production or when they anticipated that commodity price deficiency payments would be substantial, participation was high. Two options were available to farmers who participated in the program, including: (1) whole-base PIK, which placed a farm's entire base acreage in the program; and (2) the regular PIK, which placed 10 to 30 percent of a farm's base in the program. GAO found that: (1) 93 percent of the soil and 94 percent of the water conserved on the farms participating in the program was attributable to the decreased planting resulting from the program; (2) participation in the PIK program significantly exceeded original USDA expectations and resulted in underestimates in the amount of commodities needed to meet PIK payment obligations, but USDA was able to meet the payments through purchases of commodities from farmers; and (3) the overall objective of the program was to reduce production, but USDA set no specific objectives for the level of participation and production control.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/pub-details/?pubid=42745


APRIL 1983



An Initial Assessment of the Payment-in-Kind Program

BY ECONOMIC RESEARCH SERVICE
Weak domestic demand, the first drop in exports in more than a decade, and large farm surpluses placed significant downward pressure on commodity prices and farm incomes and created the potential for large government outlays. The payment-in-kind (PIK) program was designed to idle substantial acreage without increasing government program costs.


plains why doyou pull shit out of your ass that simply is not true?
 

Fritz the Cat

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Haha how old are you now? You know there is no trail to behind the scene bs.

I'm not the one who made the childish claim that politicians cover their asses and do things behind the scenes. But you are consistent.

I think Lavin is right.
Eliminate unions for federal government employees because the
purpose of federal unions is to empower themselves and promote statism.

I've always maintained that the ND chapter of the wildlife society and the ND wildlife federation are surrogates of the fed/gov. Controlled opposition orgs. hmm.....unions

Lavin says cut them by 20%. Good luck fighting that union.
 

Retired Educator

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WTH happened. I haven't kept up on this subject and when I check here today it's gone from a story about a couple of people running for office and what they wanted to do to help pheasants. Now, several pages later it reads like a free-for-all and people insulting each other. What has happened to decency in this country where we can't have a difference of opinion without insulting each other. Shame on us.
 


PrairieGhost

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I think Lavin is right.
Eliminate unions for federal government employees because the
purpose of federal unions is to empower themselves and promote statism.
I only knew two people who belonged to the union. Not many do. I always thought it was to protect employees from the crazies above them. Maybe not. It wasn't anything I would have joined. I don't like unions.
I've always maintained that the ND chapter of the wildlife society and the ND wildlife federation are surrogates of the fed/gov. Controlled opposition orgs. hmm.....unions
That's what you think. Here is what I know: they formed for people to keep abreast of current research and management techniques. Once a year biologist gather so they can better understand how their field of expertise fits into the overall picture, and what perhaps they didn't understand about other aspects. I'll give you an example. A very good wetland biologist who had gathered as much data as possible couldn't understand why wetlands didn't act in a manner he would expect. Then at a Wildlife Society meeting he listened to a man who was one of the North American authorities on hydrology. Long story short they joined with the biologist and with the hydrology included everything became understandable. It simply furthers science and you don't have people going about a specialized field blind to the other scientific fields. That is the purpose and it's funded by membership. Not much money involved. The people are volunteers and are not paid. Also, a society differs from something like the Wildlife Federation. A society is a group of professionals while the Wildlife Federation is anyone who may be interested.
 
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Fritz the Cat

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A society is a group of professionals while the Wildlife Federation is anyone who may be interested.

A former game warden in my area went to some wildlife society meetings and said it made his blood boil. What Lavin said,

Require federal departments and agencies to reimburse individuals and enterprises for the costs associated with the devaluation of their private property from the issuance of regulations that compromise the use of their property.

The ND wildlife federation used to have a website with pictures of the Falkirk ND Coal Creek Generating Station and much literature how coal fired plants are destroying the planet. Mike McEnroe, retired federal biologist from the US fish and Wildlife Service was the president.

Enough said.
 

PrairieGhost

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Require federal departments and agencies to reimburse individuals and enterprises for the costs associated with the devaluation of their private property from the issuance of regulations that compromise the use of their property.

If everything works out fair that would be ok with me. Put stream monitors on every farm and when Valley City, Fargo, and Grand Forks flood you pay your share of damages. Likewise when you spray and it hits someone else. It should work both ways. Also that should mean they don't tax us to pay you. Agriculture is just another business. Right now those departments and agencies are paying tens of millions if not hundreds of millions around the nation for agriculture damage. Lay all the cards on the table. Oh and start paying real rent for public land grazing. Make everyone on both sides of these issues stand on their own, including crop insurance.
 


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