Pheasant Politics

[zoops]

you need to keep googling things

Kind of figured this would turn into a filibuster by the google/cut & paste master.

Yes, we get it. You can find lots of examples of people getting upset with the government. So I guess conservation programs should cease to exist.

 

[gst]

The point is Gabe, they are backing up on the WOTUS, so whatever they did or said before doesn't stand up to challenges and is now moot. What they wanted to do has been stopped and Hildabeast didn't win. Let's deal with what actually is happening instead of worrying about what could have been. Let's worry about stopping their next attempt to strip private property rights shall we. CRP has been turned into a shambles program and it now SUCKS. Who cares who's to blame, IT'S GONE and NOT coming back the way it was. Get over it. You can claim wildlife orgs make decisions for landowners, but the simple fact is, they can't. They sued the govt., NOT private landowners. Each landowner STILL has the right to choose to sign up for a program or choose not to. So cut and paste until you are blue in the face and it won't make any difference. The national wildlife federation has no authority to tell any landowner what to do. They can threaten, make phone calls, send letters, and do whatever they want, but in the end, it is the individual landowner that makes the decisions about what happens on their land. Now this thread has morphed into something that has nothing to do with wildlife habitat and needs to be moved to the political section where it can die a good death. Have a good day Gabe.

KDM I am providing just a few links of what actually IS happening that shows one does NOT have the ultimate authority over what is done on their private property as you seem ot claim.

WOTUS is only as far gone as the next Democratic Congress and president as those groups that SUE and SETTLE to get their agendas accomplished are still well funded and in some cases supported even by sportsmen and THAT is the "point"

indeed the land owner decides whether or not to sign up for CRP but these orgs DO in fact play a LARGE role in that choice when they impact those programs with their sue and settle actions. And what I am trying to tell you that in ranching country producers were still interested in CRP had it not been for these sue and settle orgs and their efforts.

If you want to actually have a discussion about possible solutions to habitat in ND you need to understand and accept these wildlife and in some instances sportsmen orgs DO in FACT play a role in what the land owner chooses to do. Ignoring the impact groups like DU and others have in working with landowners to develop habitat is foolish and counter productive if in fact your goal is to increase habitat.

If you don;t think it is, explain why DU's M 5 lost so badly.

- - - Updated - - -

Kind of figured this would turn into a filibuster by the google/cut & paste master.

Yes, we get it. You can find lots of examples of people getting upset with the government. So I guess conservation programs should cease to exist.

I am not pasting examples of people pissed becasue their taxes go to Obama phones, I am giving examples of govt agencies and regulations that restrict, regulate and control what you can do with private property even if you are not involved in any govt program at all.

I am trying ot point out these restrictions are often the result of wildlife/sportsmen/environmental orgs sue and settle policies.

Who said conservation programs should cease to exist? Why would you make such an assinine claim?

What you seem not able to understand is what is being said is that if we want conservation programs that actually work (you have to get people enrolled for them to work) the efforts of orgs like the NWF and many others can not be ignored.

Partner with or support the wrong wildlife/sportsmen orgs and you simply will not get support from those whose lands you want habitat on.

If you don;t think so pull into farmers yards, tell them you are from DU and want to partner with them to save their wetlands.

Pull into a ranchers yard and tell them you are from the Sierra Club and want to partner with them to save their grasslands.

Jeesh I really didn;t think that was going ot be such a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

The point is Gabe, they are backing up on the WOTUS, so whatever they did or said before doesn't stand up to challenges and is now moot. What they wanted to do has been stopped and Hildabeast didn't win. Let's deal with what actually is happening instead of worrying about what could have been. Let's worry about stopping their next attempt to strip private property rights shall we. CRP has been turned into a shambles program and it now SUCKS. Who cares who's to blame, IT'S GONE and NOT coming back the way it was. Get over it. You can claim wildlife orgs make decisions for landowners, but the simple fact is, they can't. They sued the govt., NOT private landowners. Each landowner STILL has the right to choose to sign up for a program or choose not to. So cut and paste until you are blue in the face and it won't make any difference. The national wildlife federation has no authority to tell any landowner what to do. They can threaten, make phone calls, send letters, and do whatever they want, but in the end, it is the individual landowner that makes the decisions about what happens on their land. Now this thread has morphed into something that has nothing to do with wildlife habitat and needs to be moved to the political section where it can die a good death. Have a good day Gabe.

President Trump wants to invest $1.5 Trillion in infrastructure. Roads, waterways, bridges etc. Much legislation; National Dam Rehabilitation Program, Water Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act etc. and importantly Fast Act funding. Because it is taking 10 years to get any projects started nowadays. Trump wants the environmental permitting process cut to two years. Guess who is against that? The loans will go through EPA and Corp of Engineers. Their surrogate, the national wildlife federation released a statement:

"It is categorically false to suggest that we must sacrifice public health standards and basic environmental protections in order to build critical infrastructure projects efficiently," said Colin O'Mara, president and CEO of the national wildlife federation. Americans want and deserve better.

Projects like Garrison Dam, Grand Coulee or interstate highways will never be built in this country again. Trump is finding out, it's a fight to drain a swamp.

 

[luvcatchingbass]

Our family has not signed any of these deals that have been mentioned when approached and you guys know what has happened? We always had good deer hunting but it has got even better, never grew up seeing turkeys and now we have some, never even knew what a pheasant was besides pictures and now we have some roosters with the hen population starting to rise. Next year I hope to actually hunt these areas as the rooster to hen ratio seems to be too rooster heavy for the numbers we have watched which I would have never guessed 3-5yrs ago.
I don't need to thank any organizations or the govt and my our families efforts have began to show. I know this is a small area vs something that is state wide but my point is we did not take handouts we just went about our business. Now I can give my daughters and my family/friends get the outdoor/wildlife opportunity that I was given and attempted to improve. Trust you me I DID NOT grow up in an entitled well off grandpa and daddy gave me everything farm/ranch, there were always tough time and thanks to my dad some of the little money left over at times was used one planting trees and taking care of the land. I am a believer that if a person takes care of the land correctly the wildlife will see gains whether it be crops, hay land, pasture management or even water management.
Sorry but in todays age a politician looking for votes from outdoor enthusiasts is no different than those that work promises for minorities of any type with very few putting their money where there mouth is, I just don't trust anyone period looking for a vote and there are very few organizations I trust as well as all are getting very corrupt.
These are my experiences and opinions in short so take what you want from it.

 

[WormWiggler]

good lord, is it any wonder that the masses choose to remain ignorant....

this may be a known thing to ya'll political rammer jammers but does the world seem to be run by groups of bullies, is there anyone that does "the right thing" anymore or is "my agenda" just so ingrained that everyone thinks they are right?

KDM, you spoke of you choose what happens on your land(in some sort of words), seems true enough as long as you follow the "norms" of the masses.... try raising 20000 turkeys, or a pig farm, grow hemp, run a brothel, or build a nuclear reactor. You are the king of your castle only to the extent that "people" allow....

KDM, no offense, you make many good points, especially about ag wanting cake and eat it. Question, do farms even fail anymore?

 

[5575]

Pheasants
An evasive species that there should be no limit on until they are wiped out. :;:muahaha

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Hi! What have I missed so far?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Hi! What have I missed so far?

Short synopsis:

KDM says a person has a right in their property and a property in their right. No worries. Gst doesn't disagree however, agitators are constantly challenging a property owners practices. If the public can be led astray, a business can lose it's social license to operate.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Short synopsis:

KDM says a person has a right in their property and a property in their right. No worries. Gst doesn't disagree however, agitators are constantly challenging a property owners practices. If the public can be led astray, a business can lose it's social license to operate.

Whoa whoa whoa........I thought this about pheasant politians i.e. Presidents, VP's, senators, Reps, scandals, cocaine, sex, etc. I'm out.......unless there's beer. Is there beer?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Whoa whoa whoa........I thought this about pheasant politians i.e. Presidents, VP's, senators, Reps, scandals, cocaine, sex, etc. I'm out.......unless there's beer. Is there beer?

South Dakota Representative Christy Noem



Hey Kurtr, your Representative is hot.

Noem's Second Century Initiative

​

• Increase resources for habitat management — without raising taxes
• Crowdsource habitat solutions
• Target predators, while inspiring the next generation of South Dakota hunters
• Maintain habitat management as a national priority
• Serve as sportsman in chief for South Dakota pheasant hunting

​

Jackley's Pheasant Hunting Initiative​

​

• Create a pheasant restoration blue ribbon commission
• Build public-private partnerships for habitat
• Implement pheasant release program
• Create volunteer habitat stamp and sportsmen license plate
• Promote next generation youth hunting

Target predators.....good idea.

Fly Carpin says,

“Crowdsource habitat solutions”. Because if there’s one place to find the answers to habitat loss, it’s the chowderheads on social media and hunting forums. Just what we need! Armchair biologists that are validated by politicians​

That was rather condescending. And then as if on cue,

PrairieGhost says

I don't like any politicians that much, but I wish we had some that thought about wildlife and habitat.​

Wildlife Agencies were created by the people to perform a service. The people employ them. The people vote. They elect representatives. They listen to sportsmen as well as everyone else. Christy mentioned in the article only 101 acres were accepted into CRP. Land rents in pheasant country South Dakota can exceed $100 per acre per year. A quarter of land is 160 acres take that times $100 per acre equals $16,000. If a pheasant is worth $10 bucks it would take 1600 pheasants harvested to get the investment back or break even.

I know of no one who would spend their own nickel to actually do this but that is what some guys think the taxpayer should fund.

 

[Kurtr]

South Dakota Representative Christy Noem



Hey Kurtr, your Representative is hot.

Noem's Second Century Initiative

​

• Increase resources for habitat management — without raising taxes
• Crowdsource habitat solutions
• Target predators, while inspiring the next generation of South Dakota hunters
• Maintain habitat management as a national priority
• Serve as sportsman in chief for South Dakota pheasant hunting

Jackley's Pheasant Hunting Initiative​

​

• Create a pheasant restoration blue ribbon commission
• Build public-private partnerships for habitat
• Implement pheasant release program
• Create volunteer habitat stamp and sportsmen license plate
• Promote next generation youth hunting

Target predators.....good idea.



That was rather condescending. And then as if on cue,



Wildlife Agencies were created by the people to perform a service. The people employ them. The people vote. They elect representatives. They listen to sportsmen as well as everyone else. Christy mentioned in the article only 101 acres were accepted into CRP. Land rents in pheasant country South Dakota can exceed $100 per acre per year. A quarter of land is 160 acres take that times $100 per acre equals $16,000. If a pheasant is worth $10 bucks it would take 1600 pheasants harvested to get the investment back or break even.

I know of no one who would spend their own nickel to actually do this but that is what some guys think the taxpayer should fund.

Yes she is

A three day hunt runs for 1600-2000 per person but alot of other expense in there.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

A three day hunt runs for 1600-2000 per person but alot of other expense in there.

Oh shit. You cannot say that. That is commercialization of wildlife. That is competing with wildlife agencies who are guardians of the publics wildlife.

The reason I put a dollar figure $10 bucks on a pheasant is because input costs should be weighed.

 

[gst]

Oh shit. You cannot say that. That is commercialization of wildlife. That is competing with wildlife agencies who are guardians of the publics wildlife.

The reason I put a dollar figure $10 bucks on a pheasant is because input costs should be weighed.

Here is a question I have pondered in the past. Wildlife agencies are going to charging restitution in violation cases placing dollar values on wildlife based on some formula of what that animal may have generated thru hunting opportunities. If it okay for these agencies to do so, then why is it wrong for anyone else to?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Got some numbers. Farmed 2 quarters of rented ground 31 years. The landlord didn't want anything to do with trees. She died and it went on the auction block. Sand...$1300 bucks tops. Nope...an anesthesiologist from Bismarck ran me to $1900 per acre or $286,000 for the first quarter. That shot my wad and couldn't afford to buy the second quarter.

He doesn't hunt and bought it as an investment. He wanted a whorehouse rent so I passed. He found a land whore willing to pay his asking price and conservation isn't going to be part of that equation.

2017 was my first year of ownership and we prepped the ground for trees. Was at the NRCS today and here are the numbers I'm sure you guys will find interesting.

7 half mile rows of trees cost $5880.

NRCS cost share $3880

My out of pocket cost $2000.

Weed barrier would have doubled the cost. Chose not to and instead use a weed badger. I'm hoping to pick up a one for $3000. That is about the same cost as weed barrier. Ya, I know operating the weed badger is going to be a hellava lot more work. If you keep on top of it the trees do well and after X amount of years a guy can plant it to grasses. Those grasses grow into the row and make for better habitat than weed barrier.

So it's about $5k to start for 7 tree rows before sweat equity. An absentee landowner isn't going to consider it and a tenant is going to be reluctant to do any improvements knowing when he finally has it looking good another may come along and pay a higher rent.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing, the NRCS guy said it's my job to let you know about another program. Pheasants Forever will chip in $500. He knows me... he laughed and I demurred.

 

[Big Iron]

It is odd to me that Pheasants Forever would help subsidize trees- seems like agencies "east" are all about ripping out trees where raptors can perch and pick off unsuspecting birds.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Raptors using trees to pick off unsuspecting birds? Yes and no. Mostly we have Swainson Hawks but they don't do much damage to pheasants unless they are young. Saw one trying to snatch a chick once and the pheasant hen attacked it. Red Tails will take a few.

September is the month when hawks migrate through. When the pheasant population is high goshawks will stay into winter as long as they can eat off the food source. Saw a pheasant hen going all out with a goshawk on her ass. She dove straight down into a snowbank and when the goshawk pulled up to make another pass the hen flew out and made it the last 15 yards into a tree row.

Back in 2006 when the pheasant population was high a Golden Eagle had about 35 pheasants hemmed into an old farm yard. When one would come out to feed she would hover on top of them slowly coming down. Unbelievable, they would sit tight and just let her land on them. It was colder than hell and she should have migrated south. Her chick sat on a telephone pole cross member everyday in that wind and cold. One day it was laying at the base of that pole frozen to death.

If you put feed out for pheasants put it very close to trees. If you put it too far away, a raptor can pick them off before they can make it back to cover. Goshawks are acrobats.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Horned owls are the worst on upland game. One spring I climbed into about 60 hawk nests, and 30 Horned owl. I only found one pheasant chick in a hawk nest, but found chicks in a half dozen owl nests. The odd thing was coot legs in nearly every owl nest. I thought it odd owls that hunt mostly at night preying on a black bird.

One day it was laying at the base of that pole frozen to death.

Did the warden Cray that bird?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I was driving a truck at a coal mine past this golden eagle everyday for two weeks as she hunted those pheasants. There was snowbanks and the pheasants were starving under a small area of trees. She thinned 'em out. Her chick sat in the same place everyday all day. minus 15 degrees. I don't believe anyone looked at it.

As long as I got you on the line, do you remember in 2005 at the wildlife society meeting, when Valerius Geist said, "the management of wildlife should not reside with the legislature, it should be placed squarely in the hands of highly intelligent wildlife professionals?" I wrote it down. I mean, do you guys really believe that?

Rep. Christie Noem mentioned crowdsource habitat solutions. Input from stakeholders. Hotel, café, gas stations, sportsmen, landowners etc. Many people have a stake.

But look what happens in every thread.

Fly Carpin said,

“Crowdsource habitat solutions”. Because if there’s one place to find the answers to habitat loss, it’s the chowderheads on social media and hunting forums. Just what we need! Armchair biologists that are validated by politicians​

PrairieGhost said,

I don't like any politicians that much, but I wish we had some that thought about wildlife and habitat.​

So what do you think there PG, only trained highly intelligent wildlife professionals should be making all the decisions because if you're not one you're a chowderhead?

 

[PrairieGhost]

I think the people should decide what they want, then hire qualified people to meet that goal. The management of wildlife is much more complex than many people think. That's why I said the decision what they want is with the people, but they should hire qualified people to meet that goal.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

It's the very same way with voters deciding who they want. But for some reason you do not approve of politicians (elected representatives) they choose.

In 2004 John Hoeven beat Joe Satrom for Governor. John went on to become a Senator and Joe, who was an environmental lobbyist was picked up by Ducks Unlimited.

n 2006 Hoeven appointed Terry Steinwand Game and Fish Director. I'm sure he consulted with many politicians and other stakeholders. PG, I know some of your gang were miffed about it, they wanted Randy Kreil. But wouldn't you say now that Terry has proven himself to be the most qualified and so therefore the system we have is working?