Pheasant Politics

gst

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n 2006 Hoeven appointed Terry Steinwand Game and Fish Director. I'm sure he consulted with many politicians and other stakeholders. PG, I know some of your gang were miffed about it, they wanted Randy Kreil. But wouldn't you say now that Terry has proven himself to be the most qualified and so therefore the system we have is working?

At a advisory meeting in Bowbells years ago aftrer I asked some pointed questions about deer numbers, management and the process of determining tag numbers Randy approached me after the meeting and asked if he could educate me a bit on how the process worked.

He took out a large binder and started going thru hunter survey returns and then the following year tag determinations based on those hunter survey returns. The previous couple years we had had a fair bit of snow (one yeat shut down all travel except those main roads.

Randy pointed ot those two years and the drop in success on the handful of hunter surveys returned from our unit those years. He explained in a very "trained professional" manner that as a result of the lowered success rate the biologists at the G&F concluded there were less deer and as a result lowered tag numbers those subsequent years.

I asked if they took into consideration the fact no one could get to the areas the deer were unless they used skis or snowshoes and he got a look like you don;t have a clue what you are talking about.

I suggested perhaps there were NOT a decrease in deer numbers simply hunters not willing ot put the effort into filling tags and that they had reduced tag numbers on a herd that came thru winter at a higher number than figured which would lead to incresed deer numbers. I shared doing this two years in a row would snowball the deer number increase and possibly start to cause problems..........

A couple years later at an advisory meeting in Lansford they were trying to excuse the dramatic increase in deer numbers and the damage to vehicles and hay yards and were talking about a second season in January.

Go figure.

But hey those guys know what is up so the rest of us are likely "chowder heads".
 


Fritz the Cat

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PrairieGhost said,
I think the people should decide what they want, then hire qualified people to meet that goal. The management of wildlife is much more complex than many people think. That's why I said the decision what they want is with the people, but they should hire qualified people to meet that goal.

PG, what's with the exit, stage left? Your statement above is simply lip service. That is what the law says but not what you espouse. You have a minimum of 40,000 posts between nodakouthouse, fishingbuddy and here. Same regurgitated message for 15 years. Farmers are greedy, politicians are stupid, trained wildlife managers are more qualified.

So, I'm going to ask you again PG,
do you remember in 2005 at the wildlife society meeting, when Valerius Geist said, "the management of wildlife should not reside with the legislature, it should be placed squarely in the hands of highly intelligent wildlife professionals?"

So which is it?

(A) The Game and Fish is an agency from bottom up where every sportsmen has a voice through themselves, their representative or ballot?

or

(B) The Game and Fish is a top down agency where highly intelligent professionals dictate to the chowderheads and arm chair biologists how things are going to be?

Rep. Christie Noem is doing crowdsourcing or listening sessions. ND game and Fish Director Terry Steinwand does the same thing through advisory meetings where sportsmen can go and exchange ideas.

I forgot to mention when John Hoeven appointed Terry Steinwand there were three other applications. Randy Kreil, Mike McEnroe and a fellow from the Nature Conservancy. Had Joe Satrom won the Governship, what if he had picked one of the other three? That's a scary thought.

So which is it PG, A or B?
 

PrairieGhost

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I already answered you Fritz. Is this going to be another ask the same question 20 times thinking you will get a different answer. If you didn't understand me the first time just read it 19 more times.
 

Fritz the Cat

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I already answered you Fritz. Is this going to be another ask the same question 20 times thinking you will get a different answer. If you didn't understand me the first time just read it 19 more times.

We have all read your 10,000 posts claiming farmers are greedy and politicians are stupid.

"PG said, I think the people should decide what they want, then hire qualified people to meet that goal. That's why I said the decision what they want is with the people, but they should hire qualified people to meet that goal."

No one needs to read it 19 times to recognize you just described the system we have. Do you concur?
 


gst

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The issue here is who Plains thinks is "qualified"...
 

PrairieGhost

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Fritz did you go to high school, and if so why? Are you better off for that education? At what point do you think education becomes irrelevan, BS, MS,PhD? Would you let a high school graduate do a liver transplant for you? Let's get some perspective where your coming from.

Are you watching Levin on FOX. They just said if a farmer takes your money at gunpoint he goes to jail, but if he gets the IRS to take it from you, and gets a politician to give it to you he is ok. They describe that's how we become socialist. I thought it was really humorous what they chose as an example. Not my words this time, but on FOX. He is on now.
Edit: the gun debate is next with Levin.
 
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Fritz the Cat

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PG, it's simply Civics. Government with attention to the role of citizens. What role do you serve name calling greedy farmers and stupid politicians? Division?

NG3067......yes I am interested in the weed badger. Was going to send you a private message but you do not have an account for that. I'm north of Bismarck. Where is this badger located?
 

PrairieGhost

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when Valerius Geist said, "the management of wildlife should not reside with the legislature, it should be placed squarely in the hands of highly intelligent wildlife professionals?"
No I don't remember him saying that. There is a big difference in determining the goal, and managing for that goal. I would say the people decide the goal, but the legislature should not do the management, but let the trained biologists they hired do their job.
 
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gst

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Fritz did you go to high school, and if so why? Are you better off for that education? At what point do you think education becomes irrelevan, BS, MS,PhD? Would you let a high school graduate do a liver transplant for you? Let's get some perspective where your coming from.

Are you watching Levin on FOX. They just said if a farmer takes your money at gunpoint he goes to jail, but if he gets the IRS to take it from you, and gets a politician to give it to you he is ok. They describe that's how we become socialist. I thought it was really humorous what they chose as an example. Not my words this time, but on FOX. He is on now.
Edit: the gun debate is next with Levin.


;:;banghead

Okay plains lets see if you can explain this ....the "farmer" and those employed in agriculture (broadened group) is less than 2% of the population that is ALL represented by the politicians you hate.

So explain to us what politician will bow to the 2% bidding when it takes FAR more than that to be elected?

So what is it when the CONSUMER expecting food security (who are a MUCH larger demographic than 2%) go to the polls and elect these politicians?

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No I don't remember him saying that. There is a big difference in determining the goal, and managing for that goal. I would say the people decide the goal, but the legislature should not do the management, but let the trained biologists they hired do their job.

Um do monkeys ride bikes naturally in the wild or are they.........well you get the picture..........:)



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In a bit of seriousness the question is .....who is doing the training.

plains laments how the liberal has taken over brainwashing students in the public school system and colleges and is indeed right.........so who is pushing what agendas as the biologists are "trained".........annnnndddd we are back to excusing people who help those like Obama get elected "training" these young impressionable biologists to fit their agendas as they go out into the world to save the planet.

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/cool-schools-2017/top-20
 


Fritz the Cat

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PrairieGhost said,
Would you let a high school graduate do a liver transplant for you?

In layman terms I believe you just said, chowder head voters should not be making wildlife decisions validated through their elected stupid representatives.

Sort of like the baiting Bill. Your people created the Bill to ban baiting. My cousin was the head of the ND Weed Board and Mike McEnroe with the wildlife society asked him to testify that bait grain has weed seeds in. What happened is the sportsmen barraged their elected Senators with email, calls and letters opposed. My cousin didn't testify because he could read the lawmakers faces and it was over.

So what you're saying is this system is flawed and needs to be replaced. You guys have a better idea? Lay it on us.

Are you watching Levin on FOX. They just said if a farmer takes your money at gunpoint he goes to jail, but if he gets the IRS to take it from you, and gets a politician to give it to you he is ok. They describe that's how we become socialist. I thought it was really humorous what they chose as an example. Not my words this time, but on FOX. He is on now.
Edit: the gun debate is next with Levin.

Well that didn't long for the dog to return to his vomit.
 

PrairieGhost

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So what you're saying is this system is flawed and needs to be replaced. You guys have a better idea? Lay it on us.
Do you just make this up or do you really not understand what I wrote? To further clarify I used the term trained rather than educated for fear you may falsely equate education with intelligence, or claim that I do. Nope. Also my comment was in relation to management towards a goal, not determing the goal. Did you miss that part, or doesn't it play into your narative?


I called in opposing the baiting thing too. I don't bait, but maybe you remember the debates on nodakoutdoor where I also said I am not against baiting.
 
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Fritz the Cat

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There is a big difference in determining the goal, and managing for that goal. I would say the people decide the goal, but the legislature should not do the management, but let the trained biologists they hired do their job.

Could you provide some examples where chowder head voters validated through the stupid politicians they elect obstructed "trained" biologists from doing the jobs that they were hired to do?
 

PrairieGhost

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To be clear your the only person in this discussion calling anyone chowderheads. I wouldn't want sympathy created thinking I called voters anything. After all hopefully we are all voters. Although some did vote for Hillary hmmmm, OK maybe they are not all geniuses.
 

gst

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PrairieGhost;191779[U said:
]To be clear your the only person in this discussion calling anyone chowderheads.[/U] I wouldn't want sympathy created thinking I called voters anything. After all hopefully we are all voters. Although some did vote for Hillary hmmmm, OK maybe they are not all geniuses.

Actually plains fritz was merely repeating mr carpins claim with that term.

“Crowdsource habitat solutions”. Because if there’s one place to find the answers to habitat loss, it’s the chowderheads on social media and hunting forums. Just what we need! Armchair biologists that are validated by politicians

Plains time and again you have called voters that do not agree with the ideologies you were "trained" to push such as DU's M 5 measure, FB "right to farm measure and others a variety of names.

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Plains, what do you think about orgs like the Sierra Club (the one you often quote on here) "training" students in colleges with their programs?

How about the Center for Biological Diversity and their "training" One of the leaders in the "sue and settle" game.

https://biologicaldiversity.applicantpro.com/internaljobs/719025.html

General position overview:
The Center seeks a Conservation Science Intern to work on projects focused on protecting species and ecosystems, working with staff in our Oceans, Public Lands, Endangered Species, Environmental Health, and Climate programs. The internship will be based at the Center's Oakland office and provides a valuable experience working on real-world conservation problems. The internship may begin in May or June, a minimum commitment of three months is required, and a stipend is available.

How about HSUS and their
"training" plains?

http://animalstudiesrepository.org/wilttou/

Providing Humane Stewardship for Wildlife: The Case Against Sport Hunting


John W. Grandy, The Humane Society of the United StatesFollow



Document Type

Book Chapter


Publication Date

1986


Abstract

Sport hunting has no place on the National Wildlife Refuges of this nation.
To even consider it is an affront to the concept of a Refuge, the right of wild animals to safe haven, and the wishes of society
The question of sport hunting in society at large is slightly more complex because society, its thoughts and values, are evolving. Thankfully, we are moving more and more to a view that wildlife should be treated with the same dignity, respect, and freedom from avoidable cruelty that we would ask for ourselves. That process can be moved miles ahead if we eliminate sport hunting-killing for fun-now.


Comments

Paper presented at the national conference, "Animals and Humans: Ethical Perspectives," Moorhead State University, Moorhead, MN, April 21-23, 1986.


Recommended Citation

Grandy, J.W. (1986). Providing humane stewardship for wildlife: The case against sport hunting. In M.W. Fox & L.D. Mickley (Eds.), Advances in animal welfare science 1986/87 (pp. 295-300). Washington, DC: The Humane Society of the United States.

Do you just make this up or do you really not understand what I wrote? To further clarify I used the term trained rather than educated for fear you may falsely equate education with intelligence, or claim that I do. Nope. Also my comment was in relation to management towards a goal, not determing the goal. Did you miss that part, or doesn't it play into your narative?


yep train em, up to manage towards a "goal" like removing multiple uses, HFH, grazing/haying conservation acres...........
 
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Fritz the Cat

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Try to stay focused PG, the question posed is, "
Can you provide some examples to your claim where voters validated through the stupid politicians they elect, have obstructed "trained" biologists from doing the jobs that they were hired to do?
 

Lapper

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Not that it matters much with the direction this thread has taken and the fact that most of us live in ND, but Marty Jackley is a great guy that I guarantee every republican minded person on this site would like to hang out with. He’s been one of my best friends for almost 30 years. He hunts and fishes and works on the family ranch at every opportunity. Would be nice to see a sportsmen minded person sitting in office for once.
 

PrairieGhost

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Lapper, he sounds like a great guy.

Fritz the politicians cover their behind and do things behind the scene. I often wonder who made the decision to give a bull elk depredation permit year after year to ranchers. That doesn't sound like a biological decision to me. Perhaps this is one of those areas where the people determine the goal. However, as a citizen of North Dakota I don't think I was ever given a vote on that, or a chance to voice my opinion with my legislator. Hmmm behind the scene I would venture a guess.
 
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gst

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Lapper, he sounds like a great guy.

Fritz the politicians cover their behind and do things behind the scene. I often wonder who made the decision to give a bull elk depredation permit year after year to ranchers. That doesn't sound like a biological decision to me. Perhaps this is one of those areas where the people determine the goal. However, as a citizen of North Dakota I don't think I was ever given a vote on that, or a chance to voice my opinion with my legislator. Hmmm behind the scene I would venture a guess.


The ONLY person that restricts your opportunity to voice your opinion/testfy on legislative matters is ones self.

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HB1396FailedThe director may issue special elk depredation management licenses to landowners in designated areas between highway fourteen on the western border, highway forty - three on the southern border, highway three on the eastern border, and the Canadian border on the northern border, upon payment of the fee requirement for a resident big game license. Failed house.
0-92

 


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