Property Tax Credit

[NDSportsman]

NDSportsman, so you didn't go to school from K-12 grade? If so, who paid for that?

How about me, my parents, my grandparents. Seriously how long do we need to keep paying? When is the debt paid in full? Apparently never!

 

[ndlongshot]

Good discussion, but i think the main point that needs to be brought back into focus here is that the state has surplus funds, while our taxes are increasing. Thats called gouging.

 

[espringers]

thanks for sharing that link by the way. for purposes of this discussion, it looks like it really does provide every bit of information people need to know about property taxes. going to do a deeper dive later. i just skimmed it. but, again... the state is not collecting property taxes and the surplus is not from property taxes. its from other sources... mainly oil i assume. but, regardless, read that link and start at page 56 of the actual document. not page 56 of the PDF it pulls up...

"The county determines and collects the tax and distributes the revenue to the county, cities, townships, school districts, and other taxing districts"

 

[FightingSioux]

The state collected approximately $513 million in residential property taxes for the 2022 fiscal year, according to data published by the Department of Tax Commissioner.

It pulled in another $365 million from commercial property taxes, $249 million from agricultural property taxes and $94 million from taxes on centrally assessed taxes on infrastructure, such as railroads, airlines, coal mines, and investor-owned public utilities.

The report also lists $41 million from special taxes and $147 million from special assessments.

There is no plan to replace this "funding" or to pay for the services and repairs property tax funds other than "our reps will just have to figure it out"

I predict elimination will deepen economic divisions between rural and urban areas of the state.

Someone is going to get hosed!

Good luck people and don't forget to pay your fair share!!!!

The state will never act until we force them to act. Eliminating property taxes altogether might not be the best option BUT it’s the only option if Taxpayers want to see real change! We could take future legacy fund deposits and use it to pay down residential property taxes by half! Who wouldn’t be in favor of that? The state will NEVER act if we don’t hold their feet to the fire!

Just the grubby politicians in Bismarck…….

 

[FightingSioux]

That’s why the dolts in our legislature better be ready to make this “primary residence only” because it will pass this time

Bingo, force them to have to address these out of control property taxes

 

[Fester]

Lol when do I get to stop paying my fair share???

Never..it's figured into society as a whole. I believe Smithsonian channel had a show about this. The amount it cost to teach you can never technically be paid back....they had it all figured out...math wise. Like I said earlier that's fine and all but why do they feel the need to go above and way beyond in these facilities..it's absolutely nuts the amount of money they stick into these schools.

 

[powerman]

I am against the idea of paying on unrealized gains.

 

[Allen]

I am against the idea of paying on unrealized gains.

I am as a golden rule as well, but when someone like Elon Musk gets $56 billion in Tesla shares instead of a salary, that kind of grinds my gears. Unless I am mistaken, he doesn't owe anything on that compensation since it comes as a stock. Instead, if he holds it for a year he can then dump it and pay long-term capital gains rates.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this!



If, however, you and I (or anyone for that matter) goes out and invests their already taxed money in a stock, I am fine with the system as is where you don't have to pay taxes on the capital gains until it gets cashed out. It seems unnecessarily complicated to expect people to pay taxes on unrealized capital gains.

 

[johnr]

And when those gains are lost the next year, will uncle sam give me my taxes back?

 

[49994]

I am as a golden rule as well, but when someone like Elon Musk gets $56 billion in Tesla shares instead of a salary, that kind of grinds my gears. Unless I am mistaken, he doesn't owe anything on that compensation since it comes as a stock. Instead, if he holds it for a year he can then dump it and pay long-term capital gains rates.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this!



If, however, you and I (or anyone for that matter) goes out and invests their already taxed money in a stock, I am fine with the system as is where you don't have to pay taxes on the capital gains until it gets cashed out. It seems unnecessarily complicated to expect people to pay taxes on unrealized capital gains.

you are correct, with the value of the compensation package changing via the stock value, so depending on the day......one could argue that his initial investment in tesla would be the equivalent of using his already taxed money(he got from selling paypal). i get what you are saying, but the government is still going to get a large cut from his sales of the stock, if or when that happens.

 

[Trip McNeely]

I’ve got a Novel idea…… how many years now has the bank of nd made a “record profit” is it 10 years in a row now? To the tune of what 190ish million……… where does that “profit” go? General fund? Someone’s pockets? Wouldn’t it be sensible to use money collected from education loans to be used for schools and education in ND….. welp there ya go. Glad I could figure out a solution for all you smooth brains

 

[Allen]

you are correct, with the value of the compensation package changing via the stock value, so depending on the day......one could argue that his initial investment in tesla would be the equivalent of using his already taxed money(he got from selling paypal). i get what you are saying, but the government is still going to get a large cut from his sales of the stock, if or when that happens.

Right, but he gets that compensation at a Capital Gains tax rate of 20%, as opposed to the upper income tax rate of 37%. And that right there is BS.

 

[Trip McNeely]

Right, but he gets that compensation at a Capital Gains tax rate of 20%, as opposed to the upper income tax rate of 37%. And that right there is BS.

So you are suggesting basically forcing extremely wealthy people to sell off large chunks of stocks yearly to avoid the larger unrealized gain tax and instead take the capital gains tax. So basically forcing massive sell offs yearly….. wonder how well that’ll work for our 401ks… you’ll never win playing the “gotcha” game with extremely wealthy people.

 

[Allen]

So you are suggesting basically forcing extremely wealthy people to sell off large chunks of stocks yearly to avoid the larger unrealized gain tax and instead take the capital gains tax. So basically forcing massive sell offs yearly….. wonder how well that’ll work for our 401ks… you’ll never win playing the “gotcha” game with extremely wealthy people.

No, I am saying he doesn't take a real salary, instead he gets paid in stock. $59 billion in compensation for his services to Tesla, if it were a salary, that would put him at the top of the tax scales and he would pay just under 37% for a tax bill of near 21.8 billion bucks. By using this method of compensation, he gets to pay roughly 11.8 billion dollars.

This is why people like him and Warren Buffet are able to legitimately claim that their personal assistants/secretaries pay a higher tax rate than they do. If you are single or head of household, just about everyone making more than about $170,000 will pay a higher percentage in income taxes than Warren Buffet or Elon Musk because of the way they are paid, not because of how much they make. That seems messed up to me.

Don't take my point here wrong, the man pays lots of tax, but it just seems he should pay at least at the rate of someone who "only" makes $170,000.


BTW, I don't see how selling off of a large chunk of stocks he receives as pay as any different than Uncle Sam withholding 20-35 percent of our paychecks.

 

[Obi-Wan]

And when those gains are lost the next year, will uncle sam give me my taxes back?

 

[Allen]

And when those gains are lost the next year, will uncle sam give me my taxes back?

I think we are looking at this very differently. I am saying Elon is getting paid $59 billion, it just comes in the form of stocks. If Elon were to get paid in Japanese yen, he would have to claim that $59 B in the year it was handed to him, not in some other year.

Are you and I allowed to put income off into another year from our employers?

 

[Obi-Wan]

I think we are looking at this very differently. I am saying Elon is getting paid $59 billion, it just comes in the form of stocks. If Elon were to get paid in Japanese yen, he would have to claim that $59 B in the year it was handed to him, not in some other year.

Are you and I allowed to put income off into another year from our employers?

Yes, it is called a pension or 401. As a state employee aren’t you promised a pension and is it based on years of service/pay. Are you also enrolled in a % matching 401? Aren’t the taxes on both these compensation packages put off until you start drawing it out? Other than the $$$$$ is it that much different than what you say musk is doing ?

 

[Sluggo]

Lets looks at property taxes, roughly 50% go to school systems and the rest go to public safety(fire,law enforcement and ems), public works(road maintenance, water departments, etc, and community services(libraries, parks, etc).

But do the entities you list above ever try to spend less or not get a 10% increase every year? I don't get 10% salaray bumps every year or any year for that matter. No spending accountability.

 

[Allen]

Yes, it is called a pension or 401. As a state employee aren’t you promised a pension and is it based on years of service/pay. Are you also enrolled in a % matching 401? Aren’t the taxes on both these compensation packages put off until you start drawing it out? Other than the $$$$$ is it that much different than what you say musk is doing ?

Elon's billions is not in an IRA or 401k, they have contribution limits.

This is compensation for his work.

So, you are ok with him paying less of a percentage than you on your earnings. Takes all kinds to make the world go around, I guess.

BTW, a Roth IRA is paid for with post-tax money and that makes it tax free in retirement. A 401K is paid for by pre-tax money. When you cash it out, you will pay your marginal tax rate. I hope you stock enough away to do well enough to pay more than Elon's 20% that in no way, shape, or form is governed like an approved IRA or 401k.

For what it's worth, since Elon's actual salary and/or commissions are $0 per year, can he even contribute to a retirement account?

 

[Obi-Wan]

Elon's billions is not in an IRA or 401k, they have contribution limits.

This is compensation for his work.

So, you are ok with him paying less of a percentage than you on your earnings. Takes all kinds to make the world go around, I guess.