Property Tax Credit

[Fester]

Right, not even close to being all the way open.

Ok, that's good to know. So flooding could be an issue south bismarck if they were to open it up.

 

[jer79]

Exactly what I've been referencing in my mind as i read through comments. I also remember some talk about how the oil money the state controls ends up in Fargo. Not in Dickinson to pay for a new school. So let's just let Bismarck decide who gets the supposed state money ??? to replace the lost revenue. Will the "replacement money" be based on population or school enrollment or lineal foot of road in the county? If you think 5 acres of land ten miles from Bismarck or Fargo are high now (very desirable plots) I wonder what it'll be without a yearly payment to the county. Probably triple. Already out of reach for all but but the very wealthy, or out of stater investors or sugar beet mafia or farmers with windmills will buy it, but you can't. They'll thank you by electronically re- posting their 12 thousand acres. Just like they've done in the past when our federal tax money keeps them afloat. This a "home run" as i was told by someone with more money than I can make in twenty lifetimes.
The same people that think they will save three thousand a year are the people that will be hurt the most by this and will suffer with higher sales tax and diminished services . As Davey says I hope this fails by a narrow margin. Maybe they'll pull their heads out of their asses but i won't hold my breath.

 

[Colt45]

Special assessment is ONLY for repairs to roads/curbing/sidewalk. Has nothing to do with anything but the upkeep of roads/sidewalk around your property in Bis anyways. Not sure how ending property tax would magically increase these costs?

That’s how it is currently, my point is the 1.3 billion per year will be “made up” with some other tax, and “specials” is a perfect avenue to do that
Not saying it would happen but that’s a avenue, so many unknowns at this point
The solution is to trim budgets and cut spending, that has historically NEVER happened, so what’s the plan to replace 1.3 billion a year?
The working man is in trouble, and most people who own homes and not land are working people grinding out a living. I am one of these people, I am sick of taxes as much as the next dude but I suspect I will bear the brunt of “no property” taxes and get hosed yet again
Hope I am wrong and don’t mean to be negative but to say our elected “reps” will figure it out is beyond my understanding
They are the reason we are in the situation to begin with

 

[deleted member]

Also... anyone who thinks they can't or won't take your home for unpaid specials or fees is kidding yourself. If you get behind.... in taxes, specials or fees.... they could just get a judgment and execute on your assets. First your $ in the bank and then your tangible things. But, I assume most folks who aren't paying don't have the $ in the bank. So, then it's your stuff including your home. Right now, there is a certain home value that is exempt from judgment execution. But, it's not much and you can bet they will change that to address this situation

 

[Allen]

I think the premise here is that those opposed to the current system are of the belief that that they could someday hunker down on their property and avoid helping to pay for the government services available to them in the form of road maintenance, law enforcement, fire dept protection, etc, etc. Since that's never going to happen, the hidden agenda is to simply reshuffle who is paying for those services in the hope that they will end up paying less out of their own pocket while still receiving all the same services they are currently entitled to based on where they chose to live (very much a socialistic democrat position, by the way).

I also suspect many of those who support the removal of property taxes and figuratively telling the legislature to "figure it out", will be the same ones complaining on here about how it gets figured out in the coming years.

We all have the current option to live in a low property tax area of a city/township/county, that is our leverage. I can move less than 6 miles away and live in an area with 2-4 times the net property tax on something of similar value to my current home. I choose to not do so. If this passes, I suspect my overall tax bill is going to go up as we all get lumped together under another form of taxation. Yet, I will receive no extra services (no street lights, curbs, city water and sanitation, etc, etc).

This is a very bad deal for anyone who has chosen to not live in an urban area.

 

[Fester]

That’s how it is currently, my point is the 1.3 billion per year will be “made up” with some other tax, and “specials” is a perfect avenue to do that
Not saying it would happen but that’s a avenue, so many unknowns at this point
The solution is to trim budgets and cut spending, that has historically NEVER happened, so what’s the plan to replace 1.3 billion a year?
The working man is in trouble, and most people who own homes and not land are working people grinding out a living. I am one of these people, I am sick of taxes as much as the next dude but I suspect I will bear the brunt of “no property” taxes and get hosed yet again
Hope I am wrong and don’t mean to be negative but to say our elected “reps” will figure it out is beyond my understanding
They are the reason we are in the situation to begin with

So why allow the money to have ANYTHING to do with property? Said many times get it AWAY from property...this would include specials

 

[Davey Crockett]

So why allow the money to have ANYTHING to do with property? Said many times get it AWAY from property...this would include specials

It has to be attached to something or people won't pay, so then what ? Pay a firm to try collect ? warrant for arrest and Tie up the court system and impose fines and penalties on them ? Or attach it to payroll taxes and let those that don't work and retired people get off for nothing ? Without some sort of leverage some the tribe won't pay and the rest will have to make up for it.

One question, besides roads,schools and parks is anything else included in urban property taxes ? I'm guessing you have to pay for garbage , sewer and water ? What does it normally run a month ?

 

[Davey Crockett]

By the way, I'm not arguing , I'm looking for a solution like the rest of you . I just don't think we're there yet and for sure it's not in our best interest to let legislature decide what's best for us any more than we already have.

 

[Fester]

It has to be attached to something or people won't pay, so then what ? Pay a firm to try collect ? warrant for arrest and Tie up the court system and impose fines and penalties on them ? Or attach it to payroll taxes and let those that don't work and retired people get off for nothing ? Without some sort of leverage some the tribe won't pay and the rest will have to make up for it.

One question, besides roads,schools and parks is anything else included in urban property taxes ? I'm guessing you have to pay for garbage , sewer and water ? What does it normally run a month ?

Well first thing that would probably need to be done is get the spending in order..the second.. send me a bill...it's a debt owed isn't it? So if you don't pay a debt what happens? This doesn't need to be difficult..unless your a politician...not meaning you..meaning politicians make thing difficult to fleece people.

 

[Fester]

By the way, I'm not arguing , I'm looking for a solution like the rest of you . I just don't think we're there yet and for sure it's not in our best interest to let legislature decide what's best for us any more than we already have.

I dont think it's in the best Interest to let our local commissioners/govt make the decisions anymore. The rock sitting on the corner of the street is smarter then all of them combined. Now having the state make the decisions bad or good? who knows?? What I do know, is the current rate we have painted and repainted our bike lanes has been more then the replacement of the blue lights beeing repaired..wonder what each of those cost...

 

[Obi-Wan]

I think the premise here is that those opposed to the current system are of the belief that that they could someday hunker down on their property and avoid helping to pay for the government services available to them in the form of road maintenance, law enforcement, fire dept protection, etc, etc. Since that's never going to happen, the hidden agenda is to simply reshuffle who is paying for those services in the hope that they will end up paying less out of their own pocket while still receiving all the same services they are currently entitled to based on where they chose to live (very much a socialistic democrat position, by the way).

I also suspect many of those who support the removal of property taxes and figuratively telling the legislature to "figure it out", will be the same ones complaining on here about how it gets figured out in the coming years.

We all have the current option to live in a low property tax area of a city/township/county, that is our leverage. I can move less than 6 miles away and live in an area with 2-4 times the net property tax on something of similar value to my current home. I choose to not do so. If this passes, I suspect my overall tax bill is going to go up as we all get lumped together under another form of taxation. Yet, I will receive no extra services (no street lights, curbs, city water and sanitation, etc, etc).

This is a very bad deal for anyone who has chosen to not live in an urban area.

You already pay extra for street lights, curbs, city water, and sanitation as these are not part of ones property tax

 

[woodduck30]

Also... anyone who thinks they can't or won't take your home for unpaid specials or fees is kidding yourself. If you get behind.... in taxes, specials or fees.... they could just get a judgment and execute on your assets. First your $ in the bank and then your tangible things. But, I assume most folks who aren't paying don't have the $ in the bank. So, then it's your stuff including your home. Right now, there is a certain home value that is exempt from judgment execution. But, it's not much and you can bet they will change that to address this situation

Wouldn't a guy just liquid and sink all cash into your home and file bankruptcy?

 

[NDSportsman]

I think the premise here is that those opposed to the current system are of the belief that that they could someday hunker down on their property and avoid helping to pay for the government services available to them in the form of road maintenance, law enforcement, fire dept protection, etc, etc. Since that's never going to happen, the hidden agenda is to simply reshuffle who is paying for those services in the hope that they will end up paying less out of their own pocket while still receiving all the same services they are currently entitled to based on where they chose to live (very much a socialistic democrat position, by the way).

I also suspect many of those who support the removal of property taxes and figuratively telling the legislature to "figure it out", will be the same ones complaining on here about how it gets figured out in the coming years.

We all have the current option to live in a low property tax area of a city/township/county, that is our leverage. I can move less than 6 miles away and live in an area with 2-4 times the net property tax on something of similar value to my current home. I choose to not do so. If this passes, I suspect my overall tax bill is going to go up as we all get lumped together under another form of taxation. Yet, I will receive no extra services (no street lights, curbs, city water and sanitation, etc, etc).

This is a very bad deal for anyone who has chosen to not live in an urban area.

I don't think that's the main angst at all, like I said I'd be willing to bet the biggest angst by most people is the ridiculous amount going to schools. Please send me a bill for the services I use (roads and first responders) and I will gladly pay them but I'm sick and tired of paying for services I do not use (schools, health and human services)! If you want your kids to have the latest and greatest shit you pay for it! The state and local politicians could have solved this years ago but they keep wanting to screw people over so this is our only recourse.

 

[Fester]

I don't think that's the main angst at all, like I said I'd be willing to bet the biggest angst by most people is the ridiculous amount going to schools. Please send me a bill for the services I use (roads and first responders) and I will gladly pay them but I'm sick and tired of paying for services I do not use (schools, health and human services)! If you want your kids to have the latest and greatest shit you pay for it! The state and local politicians could have solved this years ago but they keep wanting to screw people over so this is our only recourse.

I dont have a problem paying for schools as long as it's within reason..these schools are way above what is necessary for learning. They probably make apple headquarters look like shit.

 

[Allen]

I don't think that's the main angst at all, like I said I'd be willing to bet the biggest angst by most people is the ridiculous amount going to schools. Please send me a bill for the services I use (roads and first responders) and I will gladly pay them but I'm sick and tired of paying for services I do not use (schools, health and human services)! If you want your kids to have the latest and greatest shit you pay for it! The state and local politicians could have solved this years ago but they keep wanting to screw people over so this is our only recourse.

Unless you were home schooled, you are now paying society back for your time in the public school system. Not to mention, how many relatively low-income kids grow up to be great members of society because of their ability to get a free education? The answer to that is quite a lot, not all doctors come from well to do families. When you're old and on medicare, there's a good chance one of those doctors who accept medicare will have come from the public school system.

I mean, I get it...some of the amenities at the new schools seem a bit over the top, especially when it comes to the fine arts. But we all have our own priorities.

 

[bravo]

I don’t like paying taxes for all the unhealthy elderly. Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. I’m young and healthy. If they didn’t take care of themselves or save money that’s them not me. And once my kids are out of school, we should stop funding public schools too.

There is a price to pay in a first world society. You can’t even live the life of a recluse mountain man in the Yukon without paying taxes.

Getting rid of property tax will NEVER force the bafoons to suddenly create a great new spending plan. Fix the spending problem by voting these idiots out who sell jobs to their contractor friends.

 

[NDSportsman]

Unless you were home schooled, you are now paying society back for your time in the public school system. Not to mention, how many relatively low-income kids grow up to be great members of society because of their ability to get a free education? The answer to that is quite a lot, not all doctors come from well to do families. When you're old and on medicare, there's a good chance one of those doctors who accept medicare will have come from the public school system.

I mean, I get it...some of the amenities at the new schools seem a bit over the top, especially when it comes to the fine arts. But we all have our own priorities.

Lol when do I get to stop paying my fair share???

 

[tikkalover]

Cognizant sold their office building to the city for what I think was $15.

The city built a new high school there. Go look at the over spending they did.

Would probably bust a nut if a guy found out what was actually spent on that school, but you will never know the truth on what the cost was.

 

[SLE]

I ............... Please send me a bill for the services I use (roads and first responders) and I will gladly pay them but I'm sick and tired of paying for services I do not use (schools, health and human services)...................

NDSportsman, so you didn't go to school from K-12 grade? If so, who paid for that?

To me there's a larger problem that needs attention;

Unfortunately there's too much to argue on this thread and not enough folks really willing to spend their time actually being involved. Got a problem with how the County, Township, School District, EMS is taxing you on your property taxes. Go to the meetings, get on a board, volunteer for committee's, be involved and part of the solution instead of the peanut gallery. Showing up to a single meeting once a year isn't being involved..........................Ask youself, If your not willling to truely be involved, how much do your property taxes really mean to you? Does it take a persons time, dedication, and to be somewhat selfless? Yep it sure does. Considering our elected officials are making decisions that affect all of our financial wellness, you would honostely think meetings would be packed and people would be lining up to run for boards, offices, and committees. Unfortunately that isn't the case. Most board/council meetings have a few to no one attending. Many boards/councils have to beg to get applicaitons to run for an open seat.

Honostly, this even goes as far as the poles and how many citizens actually go vote. On average its what, 10-20% of elgible voters for local election and voting. This past June for instance in Ward County they had 8,400+- votes cast in a County with 53k elgible voters. State wide was a tick better with 120k of almost 600k elgible voters casting votes. So when less than 20% of the population care enough to show up to vote, how many actually care enough to be involvde? 1%? 2%? 5%? Just something to ponder.

Is the system currently in place fair, of course not. It's based on the ability to pay and not on what services you receive. Just like state and federal income tax. Those that make the most, also pay the most, and more than not, those that pay the most often times use gov services the least.

Why should one persons property taxes be 3 times that of their neighbors? They use the same roads, get the same county, township, and school services. It's all about the mentality that if they can afford the nicer property/home, they can afford to pay more in tax. Socialistic approach, you bet.

Everyone is complaining about their taxes going up the last few years, and maybe I missed it in the 30+ pages, but some of this can be boiled back to the extreme inflation the country has seen. There's not way a school, county, township or any other entity can provide the same level of service for the same dollars today as they did 4 years ago. What aren't you paying more for today, more less probably double now, than you did 4-5 years ago? Insurance, food, transportation, recreational stuff, etc.. Thinking taxes are going to go down or to even be flat is a misnomer with out looking at inflation.

Like many, I'm not a fan of property taxes either, but leaving it up to our state legislators to figure it out with no frame work scares the hell out of me a lot more than being able to go to my local county, township, or school board and have local representation and involvement. Good luck thinking your voice will be heard at the state level..................If you think you will pay less, as the quote from grandpa gustafson goes "well, you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first". RIP Burgess Meredith......................

 

[Colt45]

The state collected approximately $513 million in residential property taxes for the 2022 fiscal year, according to data published by the Department of Tax Commissioner.

It pulled in another $365 million from commercial property taxes, $249 million from agricultural property taxes and $94 million from taxes on centrally assessed taxes on infrastructure, such as railroads, airlines, coal mines, and investor-owned public utilities.

The report also lists $41 million from special taxes and $147 million from special assessments.

There is no plan to replace this "funding" or to pay for the services and repairs property tax funds other than "our reps will just have to figure it out"

I predict elimination will deepen economic divisions between rural and urban areas of the state.

Someone is going to get hosed!

Good luck people and don't forget to pay your fair share!!!!