ND Game & Fish

[NDSportsman]

Here are the draw odds from 2016:

0 points: 0.4%
1 point: 1.2%
2 points: 2.6%
3 points: 4.5%
4 points: 37.6%
5 points: 46.6%
6 points: 77.6%
7 and above: 100%

Some of your friends are awfully lucky and others damn lucky.

That's my point it would seem some are damn lucky and others are damn unlucky! Just seems fishy to me.

 

[Lycanthrope]

increase land required for gratis to 640 and make it so you never loose preference points, until you are actually drawn. I didnt apply for a MZ for a couple years, cuz I had life going on, and now Im back to zero, kinda BS imo....

 

[deleted_account]

That's my point it would seem some are damn lucky and others are damn unlucky! Just seems fishy to me.

the only logical thing i can think of is that the GnF has a personal vendetta against some people.

 

[guywhofishes]

When mother nature calls hard enough to kill deer CRP does not matter. Plain and simple.

Those winters when the snow was deep enough to prevent deer from getting to feed, CRP held no deer. They ended up in yards, towns, sunflower and corn fields.

Our place was surrounded by CRP. And in those winters we would still haul out dead deer every spring by dozens.

CRP helped raise more fawns and was great bird habitat

WAY too black/white of a position to take IMO

Great habitat puts fat on deer, helps deer reserve more energy during moderate stress (snow is 2 feet deep, not yet 4), etc.

Sure - CRP doesn't save them all once the snow gets too deep for them to be in there - but it saved a LOT of them "indirectly" by providing food/cover until the snow became too deep... so they went into the miserable last month or two of winter with way better reserves than they'd have had without CRP.

 

[shorthairsrus]

you CRP and weather people -- if that was the primary reason for decline in population - then why don't we just issue 200k tags a year - have at em. It wont make a difference right?

 

[deleted_account]

you CRP and weather people -- if that was the primary reason for decline in population - then why don't we just issue 200k tags a year - have at em. It wont make a difference right?

habitat = overrated

 

[shorthairsrus]

Do a history lesson on WT in the state and in NA. I think you will be surprised what the number one factor that decided population. It wasn't weather nor CRP or habitat for that matter. It was Man.


#1 Retired Arm Chair Biologist.

 

[gst]

WAY too black/white of a position to take IMO

Great habitat puts fat on deer, helps deer reserve more energy during moderate stress (snow is 2 feet deep, not yet 4), etc.

Sure - CRP doesn't save them all once the snow gets too deep for them to be in there - but it saved a LOT of them "indirectly" by providing food/cover until the snow became too deep... so they went into the miserable last month or two of winter with way better reserves than they'd have had without CRP.

Guy, yes deer do browse CRP but that is not what puts the "fat" on deer you mention. That largely comes from the crops raised on the ground CRP was on. My comments were strickly aimed at CRP being "habitat" in the winter months that save deer from harsh weather.

I thought that was clear.

 

[Nanky]

Do a history lesson on WT in the state and in NA. I think you will be surprised what the number one factor that decided population. It wasn't weather nor CRP or habitat for that matter. It was Man.


#1 Retired Arm Chair Biologist.

Man generally thinks they are more important, but Mother Nature always wins.

I don't even know why people are arguing . . . it's pretty simple. After record numbers of deer in the state, CRP significantly declined at the same time we were having horrible winters/springs and G&F was still just reacting to conditions instead of correctly forecasting what the population might me doing, so they gave out too many tags. Combine all 3 factors and you'll get what we have now . . . plus add in some EHD out west. Numbers won't be back like they were until there is more habitat, that's just how mother nature works.

 

[NodakBuckeye]

Here are the draw odds from 2016:

0 points: 0.4%
1 point: 1.2%
2 points: 2.6%
3 points: 4.5%
4 points: 37.6%
5 points: 46.6%
6 points: 77.6%
7 and above: 100%

Some of your friends are awfully lucky and others damn lucky.

- - - Updated - - -



Why can it only be 1 or the other with some guys? Can't we all agree it was a combination of too many doe tags and harsh winters? Say there weren't a ton of doe tags given out, yes some of them would have died during winter but some would have lived as well.

Why can it only be 1 or the other with some guys? Can't we all agree it was a combination of too many doe tags and harsh winters? Say there weren't a ton of doe tags given out, yes some of them would have died during winter but some would have lived as well.

I absolutely agree 100% though about the comment about it being a thankless job working for the G&F.

I can see a little of both but for the most part, folks finding dozens of dead deer would have only had more carcasses to remove if fewer tags were available. The herd in many areas would have probably been better served with more aggresive management to remove more animals to lower competition on resources for the remaining animals to better survive, have better chances at a higher body condition score and better recruitment. Seems to me a perfect storm of shitty circumstances- harsh winters, over abundance, lack of resources, midges, and on n on. In my sometimes feeble mind, I think the deer herd here was kept artificially high for several years and the crash was inevitable, even with the g & f trying to bring it down, they could have really put the screws to it to get down to nore realistic numbers and maybe smoothed the crash

 

[shorthairsrus]

Biology 101 and History 101 class :

Whitetail deer are not endangered now, but, like many of our other animals in the Americas, had been in the past. They were reduced to critically low numbers, not however due to habitat loss (the cause that we most often hear relating to endangered species). Because the whitetail is the millions-of-years-old, ubiquitous generalist that can survive in hundreds of different habitats, they were unaffected, and probably even benefited from the expansion of the human population. The whitetail's decimation was due to over hunting.

 

[justanothermike]

sounds like some of you guys should go work for the G and F, or maybe you want more pencil pushers checking the system to make sure the points system is "fare". only took me 5 years to get a tag, and but im also just happy to go out in the field to see deer and shoot coyotes.

 

[eyexer]

What's your firsthand experience that the G&F is corrupt?

first off I had nine preference points and for like the sixth year in a row no tag. The system has to change.

 

[deleted_account]

first off I had nine preference points and for like the sixth year in a row no tag. The system has to change.

you've had nine preference points for 6 years? so you havent had a first choice tag in 16 years?

- - - Updated - - -

i usually only believe about half of what comes out of your keyboard any way, but im really throwing the bs flag on this one.

- - - Updated - - -

if this unlikely situation were true. what unit are you applying in? Is there even tags left after gratis?

 

[eyexer]

Make gratis 640 acres

probably wouldn't change a thing. Make it that the gratis holder has to own 51% of the land in the quarter. What you have now is huge farmers that own tons of Land so dad takes gratis on four quarters and the kids take gratis on all the other quarters because they're probably listed as 5% owner or such.

 

[Buckmaster81]

same here

I wonder how johnr would feel about that?

 

[guywhofishes]

I guess I'm confused by the tremendous number of deer a guy bumps out of CRP when late season pheasant hunting. If not good habitat in winter then nobody told the deer.

I've laid or sat down in beds that deer make in CRP and I'm always surprised how cozy it is. CRP makes great shelter from cold winds.

I am guessing western CRP vs eastern CRP might be different? We're talking 4-6 ft tall and lush grasses CRP in the east.

 

[dean nelson]

Biology 101 and History 101 class :

Whitetail deer are not endangered now, but, like many of our other animals in the Americas, had been in the past. They were reduced to critically low numbers, not however due to habitat loss (the cause that we most often hear relating to endangered species). Because the whitetail is the millions-of-years-old, ubiquitous generalist that can survive in hundreds of different habitats, they were unaffected, and probably even benefited from the expansion of the human population. The whitetail's decimation was due to over hunting.

So they ran roughly the same amount of tags for 6 years and population magically drops at the exact same time as back to back to back severe winters and it was the tag numbers fault. Like was mentioned had we had more deer in 08 and 09 we just would have had more dead deer. When deer start to starve its a cumulative effect having more deer. The average deer takes in less because its devided among more so all of them are weaker as a result. People trying to compare to 96/97 fail to remember that 97/98 through 08 were all light winters for most of the state and the deer herd resonded. Starting in 2008 we had three bad winters in a row....guess what this is ND and one bad winter can reak havoc let alone three! Im assuming it was also the game and fish that took out the pronghorns as well durning this same time?

Should they have backed of more that first year then they did ..sure but trying to say high tag number preceding that point is the root cause is not grounded in reality. You cant bank deer above the carrying capacity of any given harsh winter it's just impossible to do.

 

[Flatrock]

That's my point it would seem some are damn lucky and others are damn unlucky! Just seems fishy to me.

Wow, My point is also your point. SMH

So lucky is fishy? That's just how luck works. It can be good or bad.

 

[Buckmaster81]

The difference in 96-97 was that we had 2 million MORE acres of crp in the state than we did with teh latest bad winters. When mother nature calls, and there isnt habitat to ride out the storm....thats when populations crash.

CRP IS NOT WINTER HABITAT FOR DEER!!!!! If we have any significant snowfall CRP lays flat under the snow cover. Deer use CRP for rearing fawns and as cover/feed during the spring, summer and fall. Whitetails need trees and/or brush covered hills for winter cover.

All the CRP in the world wont help the deer a damn bit when its crusted under 3' of snow!