Roadless rule repeal

[Jiffy]

More roads = more people
More people = more dumbfuckery
The dumbfuckery involved in “hunting” nowadays is already beyond comprehension. Let’s keep the hard to get places, hard to get to.

Good lord….

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Patagonia is rallying their troops to comment.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/p...otect-our-public-lands-from-trump/ar-AA1MbpAI

The comment period ends in ten days. Link to the federal register site:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...rea-conservation-national-forest-system-lands

A clip below

Purpose and Need for the Proposed Action​

Given changing resource conditions and shifts in policy priorities, the Department believes that the “one-size-fits-all” approach to roadless area management under the 2001 Roadless Rule is no longer appropriate and proposes to use local land management planning processes to administer inventoried roadless areas. Rescinding the 2001 Roadless Rule would provide discretion for local land managers to tailor management, as appropriate, to local land conditions.

NDA, there are over 60K comments submitted to date:

https://www.regulations.gov/document/FS-2025-0001-0001/comment

I skipped around on several pages looking at random comments and could not find one in favor.

This federal register is a quasi-legislative process where unelected people weigh the comments. Getting people to comment "is organized." Like stuffing the ballot box.

 

[ndlongshot]

Destroying sage brush for grazing and farming, oil infrastructure (including roads and pads), pipeline clearing of sage, and fences (perching for raptors), power lines, have all contributed to loss of sage grouse habitat.

 

[Kurtr]

Do you have evidence that roads have caused the sage grouses problems? Roads simply do not take up that much land. its not an either or thing when it comes to conservation, you can have roads AND have habitat. Most animals do not require isolation from roads to thrive.

Ya roads in sage grouse habitat have fucked them thats not really up for debate.

I dont want roads for access to the general public i want the roads for timber harvest, management and fire control . Just for general travel no that includes e bikes. You can walk or ride a horse. We walked and had lamas they are awesome.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Not sure how to respond to this. You can’t be serious?

Just FYI, assuming a square chunk of land, this gives you an idea how much actual land is utilized by putting in a road, as you can see, its quite a small percentage of the total.

Summary of Results:

• 1,000 acres:
  • 20-foot wide road: 3.03 acres (0.303%).
  • 30-foot wide road: 4.55 acres (0.455%).
• 10,000 acres:
  • 20-foot wide road: 9.58 acres (0.0958%).
  • 30-foot wide road: 14.37 acres (0.1437%).

These figures assume a straight road through the center, with no additional land use for drainage or other purposes.

 

[Traxion]

Fragmenting habitat with roads and development have had a serious impact on not only grouse but mule deer. It’s not about the land lost by road, it’s breaking up natural movement and routes the animals take.

I think reason has to be used. I think roadless areas are good but having flexibility to help with some issues using roads is helpful. I’d say let the fires burn naturally but we’ve done so much full suppression that we now have loaded tinder boxes all over.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Destroying sage brush for grazing and farming, oil infrastructure (including roads and pads), pipeline clearing of sage, and fences (perching for raptors), power lines, have all contributed to loss of sage grouse habitat.

Yup, much more than a road has caused this problem...

 

[Lycanthrope]

Fragmenting habitat with roads and development have had a serious impact on not only grouse but mule deer. It’s not about the land lost by road, it’s breaking up natural movement and routes the animals take.

I think reason has to be used. I think roadless areas are good but having flexibility to help with some issues using roads is helpful. I’d say let the fires burn naturally but we’ve done so much full suppression that we now have loaded tinder boxes all over.

not all roads need to be highways, or even publicly accessible. As I stated earlier, I like to see decisions like this made at the local level more than having to abide by federal mandates.

 

[Allen]

This federal register is a quasi-legislative process where unelected people weigh the comments. Getting people to comment "is organized." Like stuffing the ballot box.

Your understanding of the Federal Register is incorrect.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/the-federal-register/about.html

Basically, the Federal Register is nothing more than the federal government's equivalent of a county's official newspaper. It's where federal agencies must post their activities for open disclosure of what they are proposing. Often done in the form of an Environmental Impact Statement. In this example, it's the US Forest Service who is proposing this, they fall under the US Department of Agriculture. The USDA is led by Secretary Brooke Rollins, who is a Trump appointee.

 

[deleted user]

Remember a big push for these roadless areas to be open is to free up more mining and extraction. It isn’t just the roads that will be fragmenting and affecting habitat.

 

[double account removed]

well ho lee crap fritz the cat are u kidding me right now that they are letting the public comment on what happens with the govermint and there are orgs lettin people know how to do so that just ticks me right off that shouldnt be allowed good job pointin out that patagonia made a comment cuz people who hike shoudnt have an opinion

plus you used them to make it look like its only libs who are against this so u can try to sway us nda boys by sayin real conservatives n sportsmen therefore must be for it which is right out of the fritz the cat play book lmao well played well played

 

[dblkluk]

Im in favor of roads (which in remote areas often amount to nothing more than a barely navigable trails themselves. access trumps conservation IMO, there arent millions of people that are going to drag race on back country roads, and a lot of people cannot hike miles and miles to hunt. We have plenty of habitat already. Really the only people that favor locking up millions of acres of public land via inacessibility are those who benefit from it directly themselves or are wacky tree huggers.

Tell us you haven't spent time out west without telling us..

Stick to urban bee keeping.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Your understanding of the Federal Register is incorrect.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/the-federal-register/about.html

Basically, the Federal Register is nothing more than the federal government's equivalent of a county's official newspaper. It's where federal agencies must post their activities for open disclosure of what they are proposing. Often done in the form of an Environmental Impact Statement. In this example, it's the US Forest Service who is proposing this, they fall under the US Department of Agriculture. The USDA is led by Secretary Brooke Rollins, who is a Trump appointee.

Thank you, Allen from your weblink,


How can I use the Federal Register to affect Federal rulemaking?

Federal agencies are required to publish notices of proposed rulemaking in the Federal Register to enable citizens to participate in the decision making process of the Government. This notice and comment procedure is simple.

1. A proposed rule published in the Federal Register notifies the public of a pending regulation.
2. Any person or organization may comment on it directly, either in writing, or orally at a hearing. Many agencies also accept comments online or via e-mail. The comment period varies, but it usually is 30, 60, or 90 days. In each Federal Register document, the issuing agency gives detailed instructions on how, when, and where a viewpoint may be expressed. In addition, agencies must list the name and telephone number of a person to contact for further information.
3. When agencies publish final regulations in the Federal Register, they must address the significant issues raised in comments and discuss any changes made in response to them. Agencies also may use the notice and comment process to stay in contact with constituents and to solicit their views on various policy and program issues.

Allen, I have had rules and regulations that went through the federal register. Been trotted around that block.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Tell us you haven't spent time out west without telling us..

Stick to urban bee keeping.

how far west are you talking? Montana? Idaho?

 

[Allen]

Thank you, Allen from your weblink,


How can I use the Federal Register to affect Federal rulemaking?

Federal agencies are required to publish notices of proposed rulemaking in the Federal Register to enable citizens to participate in the decision making process of the Government. This notice and comment procedure is simple.

1. A proposed rule published in the Federal Register notifies the public of a pending regulation.
2. Any person or organization may comment on it directly, either in writing, or orally at a hearing. Many agencies also accept comments online or via e-mail. The comment period varies, but it usually is 30, 60, or 90 days. In each Federal Register document, the issuing agency gives detailed instructions on how, when, and where a viewpoint may be expressed. In addition, agencies must list the name and telephone number of a person to contact for further information.
3. When agencies publish final regulations in the Federal Register, they must address the significant issues raised in comments and discuss any changes made in response to them. Agencies also may use the notice and comment process to stay in contact with constituents and to solicit their views on various policy and program issues.

Allen, I have had rules and regulations that went through the federal register. Been trotted around that block.

That's my point. It's akin to the Hazen Star being the official newspaper of Mercer County. There are times when one has the legal requirement to serve a public notice. You may (or may not) have at one point had to file a legal notice in your official county paper. That's my point, it's not the county paper filing legal notices, it's the entity that may have a lien on some property. In this case, the federal agencies are required to publish their intent (regulations, etc) in the Federal Register. Only thing is, the F.R. and the Hazen Star serve no purpose outside of disseminating news and information. It's the federal agency that fields and addresses the comments.

Unless I've misunderstood your take on this over the years.

 

[wslayer]

I’d say let the fires burn naturally but we’ve done so much full suppression that we now have loaded tinder boxes all over.

Same as Canada situation. So remote, literally impossible to go in and do controlled burns.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

That's my point. It's akin to the Hazen Star being the official newspaper of Mercer County. There are times when one has the legal requirement to serve a public notice. You may (or may not) have at one point had to file a legal notice in your official county paper. That's my point, it's not the county paper filing legal notices, it's the entity that may have a lien on some property. In this case, the federal agencies are required to publish their intent (regulations, etc) in the Federal Register. Only thing is, the F.R. and the Hazen Star serve no purpose outside of disseminating news and information. It's the federal agency that fields and addresses the comments.

Unless I've misunderstood your take on this over the years.

Over 60K people submitted comments. Allen, do they lend weight? If not, what is the purpose of submitting a comment?

Allen, you work for the federal government, I believe NOAA. What you are saying is the Forest Service serving inside USDA is going to take these comments into consideration.

 

[SupressYourself]

Just FYI, assuming a square chunk of land, this gives you an idea how much actual land is utilized by putting in a road, as you can see, its quite a small percentage of the total.

Summary of Results:

• 1,000 acres:
  • 20-foot wide road: 3.03 acres (0.303%).
  • 30-foot wide road: 4.55 acres (0.455%).
• 10,000 acres:
  • 20-foot wide road: 9.58 acres (0.0958%).
  • 30-foot wide road: 14.37 acres (0.1437%).

These figures assume a straight road through the center, with no additional land use for drainage or other purposes.

You may be missing at least part of the point. It's not the road itself taking up habitat space that is the problem, it's the additional ass-hattery that roads afford that leads to the eventual ruination of wild places.

 

[Lycanthrope]

You may be missing at least part of the point. It's not the road itself taking up habitat space that is the problem, it's the additional ass-hattery that roads afford that leads to the eventual ruination of wild places.

I get that, but ass hattery can be controlled, if there is a will to do it. Gates are still largely respected in most places. I dont support building roads everywhere possible...

 

[Allen]

Over 60K people submitted comments. Allen, do they lend weight? If not, what is the purpose of submitting a comment?

Allen, you work for the federal government, I believe NOAA. What you are saying is the Forest Service serving inside USDA is going to take these comments into consideration.

1. Yes, they do lend weight to what the federal officials have to consider. If they don't properly consider the questions asked and comments received, they will absolutely lose in court if someone who is not a fan of the project/rules/regulations/whatever decides to sue the agency for not properly giving them due consideration. This is all based on the National Enviromental Policy Act, a relatively short law that has been widely left open for courts to write rulings and set precedents.

2. Yes, it would be the US Forest Service in this example that will field the questions and comments, since they are the agency that seems to be proposing the changes and are also the agency that manages our national forests and grasslands.