Mountain Lion Meeting in Fargo tonight, who's going?

[KDM]

I forgot to mention that Stephanie said that lions typically eat 1 deer a week. Jeb insisted that mule deer numbers were increasing throughout the badlands.
I would like to know if their method of estimating deer numbers in the lion breeding area differs from how they estimate deer numbers in the rest of the state.

Thanks Badland Mule!!! 52 deer per lion she says. That's possibly 52 ND hunters that will be denied the opportunity to hunt the 36 mule deer (70% of 52) or the 16 white tail deer that each lion will kill each year. Additionally, at $30 a head that's $1520 in deer tag revenue per lion that the NDGF won't be getting. (Keep in mind the NDGF has NO CLUE HOW MANY LIONS ARE IN ND by their own admission so the true cost can't be estimated)

Here's my cost benefit ratio for having lions in ND......

Each lion could possibly deny 52 ND residents the opportunity to hunt a deer each year.
Each lion could possibly deny ND residents the opportunity to hunt Elk, Bighorn Sheep, or Antelope as lions kill these species as well.
The quota for lions is so small that only a couple dozen ND residents will have the opportunity to take a lion.
Each lion possibly costs the NDGF over $1500 in tag revenue that ND hunters and sportsmen won't benefit from.
Lions are known livestock predators and if they kill 1 calf per year per lion that is a sizable expense to the rancher.

Lions are NOT an endangered species and there are sustained populations of this predator in just about EVERY rocky mountain state, Canada, and Mexico with hunting opportunities that are very affordable. Seems to me that having lions in ND takes from the hunters and sportsmen of ND WAY WAY WAY more than they will EVER give back. It really doesn't matter if the mule deer populations are increasing. It's logical to assume they would be increasing faster if there there were no lions killing them off resulting in more opportunity for ND citizens to hunt them.

Who benefits from having lions in ND?? Sounds to me like the only ones who benefit from lions in ND are those doing research on them.

 

[Bed Wetter]

Jeb just referenced the myth of GNF involvement in planting lions.

 

[Buckmaster81]

Dammit slim asking about the trailers full of lions!!

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Also please record his answer

 

[Bed Wetter]

Boy did you guys miss out. Life changing.

 

[espringers]

Lol. Do tell!

 

[svnmag]

Long Tailed Coyotes. Deer Killin' Stock killin' NOT even close to an endangered species so we don't need to protect'em Long Tailed Coyotes.

Sorry, liberal book wolf book I just read. It has it all AND a cougar. It does present the dilemma the G&F, DNR etc face trying to keep everyone happy. Actually a good read and sometimes IMHO evokes Jack London. Whatever: I hope someone checks it out and provides opinion. I'm drinking cold Bud Heavy from a Mason jar. Penis:

 

[You]

Thanks Badland Mule!!! 52 deer per lion she says. That's possibly 52 ND hunters that will be denied the opportunity to hunt the 36 mule deer (70% of 52) or the 16 white tail deer that each lion will kill each year. Additionally, at $30 a head that's $1520 in deer tag revenue per lion that the NDGF won't be getting. (Keep in mind the NDGF has NO CLUE HOW MANY LIONS ARE IN ND by their own admission so the true cost can't be estimated)

Here's my cost benefit ratio for having lions in ND......

Each lion could possibly deny 52 ND residents the opportunity to hunt a deer each year.
Each lion could possibly deny ND residents the opportunity to hunt Elk, Bighorn Sheep, or Antelope as lions kill these species as well.
The quota for lions is so small that only a couple dozen ND residents will have the opportunity to take a lion.
Each lion possibly costs the NDGF over $1500 in tag revenue that ND hunters and sportsmen won't benefit from.
Lions are known livestock predators and if they kill 1 calf per year per lion that is a sizable expense to the rancher.

Lions are NOT an endangered species and there are sustained populations of this predator in just about EVERY rocky mountain state, Canada, and Mexico with hunting opportunities that are very affordable. Seems to me that having lions in ND takes from the hunters and sportsmen of ND WAY WAY WAY more than they will EVER give back. It really doesn't matter if the mule deer populations are increasing. It's logical to assume they would be increasing faster if there there were no lions killing them off resulting in more opportunity for ND citizens to hunt them.

Who benefits from having lions in ND?? Sounds to me like the only ones who benefit from lions in ND are those doing research on them.

Speaking to the choir boss. It's GD rediculous isn't it? Ms tucker was quoted on am 550 stating that the majority of nd outdoorsman support a sustainable lion population or some such. An Absolute bold faced lie (job security? How much time spent on lions?) OR she's fallen victim to the little world SHE lives in. "I believe it, my husband believes it, my coworkers believe it, so everyone must believe it!" Ummmmmm, no. Get a clue.

That little fun fact, or stat if you will, reminded me of all the poohead politicians spewing their skewed statistics every day as of late.

Sustainable lion population in nd!? Not for me, not for my mulies, not for my whitetail, not for my goatalopes, not for my elk, and not for my gst's prized calf.

 

[Riggen&Jiggen]

This kind of crap proves that most everyone that call the shots in State Game and Fish, Department of Natural Resources across the country and the Feds are tree huggers and view hunters as a nuisance. There dream is to try to put ecosystems back to pre-settlement and take the hunter out of the management equation. Of course I could be wrong but what other reason would there be for them to continually make assassinine decisions. They don't realize they are biting the hand that feeds them. If they limit the roll of hunters for managing wildlife they decrease the need for themselves. I love how they act like an experienced hunter does not know what they are talking about just because they don't have Biology degree. My message to them is keep your tree hugging mush head buried in a text book where it belongs.

 

[Bed Wetter]

They tried to stay very unbiased about it, but I got that their stance was that lions are a PITA but we want to sustain a population so we can keep hunting them. Because lions are neat and hunting is neat. However, somebody brought up the idea of a tag system for lions instead of a quota. Jeb seemed pretty keen on the idea and likened it to how unfair it would be if we had a quota on mule bucks. I really hope they don't fudge this up with a lottery.

There were several underhanded references made to GNF planting lions and laughs were had.

They said the survivability of their collared lions over the last 15 years has averaged only 42%, meaning after they collar lions, only 42% make it through to the next year. However, the sample size was only about 24 lions and they sometimes recollar the same lions. I asked about this and she said they try to trap lions throughout the breeding area and their methodology and tactics are consistent with what other biologists do and they generally see a 70% survivability rate.

 

[Account Deleted]

Heres my take on mountain lions. I don't care enough about the slim opportunity of getting one to think the NDGF should be managing for a sustainable population. If they survive here on their own, fine; if they don't, also fine. They are a novelty and nothing more. We already have one novelty species in the bighorns that are proving to be an exercise in futility and a waste of money.

 

[svnmag]

Do we want cougars extinct? My vote is for a rarity and managed as such in ND with landowner discretion.

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It's a fuzzy ball with human sprawl...

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It's not linear it's circular--Mark Levine

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We have to keep the ball bouncing back and forth at the bottom until He comes back.

 

[Captain Ahab]

Somebody could set up a Mt. Lion poll so we can vote on it. See how NDA feels.

 

[svnmag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLr-vpJzi4Y

 

[SDMF]

It's not linear it's circular--Mark Levine

 

[NDSportsman]

IMO we don't need a breeding population or sustainable population of mountain lions in ND. We get enough immigrants from SD. Our deer, elk and bighorn herds are more important than some lions. Treat them like coyotes. Fair game with a furbearer license and no quota. Maybe a 2-3 week hound season. Otherwise why waste resources on something that most will never set eyes on.

 

[Timbuk-2]

"Ms tucker was quoted on am 550 stating that the majority of nd outdoorsman support a sustainable lion population or some such. An Absolute bold faced lie"

And what evidence to you have to the contrary?

 

[gst]

This kind of crap proves that most everyone that call the shots in State Game and Fish, Department of Natural Resources across the country and the Feds are tree huggers and view hunters as a nuisance. There dream is to try to put ecosystems back to pre-settlement and take the hunter out of the management equation. Of course I could be wrong but what other reason would there be for them to continually make assassinine decisions. They don't realize they are biting the hand that feeds them. If they limit the roll of hunters for managing wildlife they decrease the need for themselves. I love how they act like an experienced hunter does not know what they are talking about just because they don't have Biology degree. My message to them is keep your tree hugging mush head buried in a text book where it belongs.

That kind of talk will get your fingers rapped with a ruler.

 

[Bed Wetter]

IMO we don't need a breeding population or sustainable population of mountain lions in ND. We get enough immigrants from SD. Our deer, elk and bighorn herds are more important than some lions. Treat them like coyotes. Fair game with a furbearer license and no quota. Maybe a 2-3 week hound season. Otherwise why waste resources on something that most will never set eyes on.

Wait a second, since when is our sheep population "sustainable"? They've spent 60 years trying to establish a self-sustaining sheep population and they haven't been able to. I asked about the effects of lion predation on sheep and she said lions have taken out a few over the years but they're not a significant threat to our current population, they're more worried about TB.

 

[Account Deleted]

Wait a second, since when is our sheep population "sustainable"? They've spent 60 years trying to establish a self-sustaining sheep population and they haven't been able to. I asked about the effects of lion predation on sheep and she said lions have taken out a few over the years but they're not a significant threat to our current population, they're more worried about TB.

In the last public meeting I went to, they said they had to kill one of their collared cats because it kept killing bighorns....

 

[You]

"Ms tucker was quoted on am 550 stating that the majority of nd outdoorsman support a sustainable lion population or some such. An Absolute bold faced lie"

And what evidence to you have to the contrary?

an ear to the ground OUTSIDE of my 'circle', personal discussions with rural living/non-hunting individuals (to include ranchers/farmers and non), a memory of fbo discussions that were overwhelmingly against a sustainable population, discussions on nda that are overwhelmingly against a sustainable population, kurtr's poorly worded poll (results pending)........

sites like nda and fbo provide a solid cross section of individuals and opinions. most bases do end up getting covered, that is, when svn doesn't immediately pollute/kill a thread with rock videos. :;:smokin