Deer numbers

[buckhunter24_7]

Ok guys I thought this would be a good time to bring this issue up again with so many unsuccessful applicants. I think the game and fish MUST do a better job of knowing how many deer are out there and how many each unit has. The way I understand it they primarily go off of the year before success rate for how many license's they issue the next year, and if we do get enough snow they do a fly over (once every 15 years we have enough snow according to them) down three Rivers and one slough to determine how many deer there are.

BUT!!!! Every year they drive across the WHOLE state and count every duck in EACH slough they see. They drive and do crow counts for pheasants, count grouse they check about every single animal except deer!!!! I would think deer hunting is the most popular by far in this state so why don't they spend more time trying to know how many deer are out there. The low deer numbers go back to a few years ago when they issued 120,000 tags when it should have been 60,000

We all know there are certain areas that the deer winter year after year there is know reason they can't count them areas. Why can't they check 30-40 spots in EACH unit???

I do not believe what they are doing right now is enough and if the game and fish won't change than we might have to make them do so in other ways than just calling them and bitching. Ballot measure or through the legislature. I really don't know but something has to be done so this does not happen again.

I do know you cannot always keep a bunch of deer around because of hard winters but I also know it was very few years after the winter of 97 that the state was issuing record tag numbers

The worst problem with nobody getting any tags right now is we are losing a whole generation of hunters right now. It's hard to get a young kid into hunting if they never get a tag. We need to get this issue fixed so it never happens again and we never lose another generation of hunters.

 

[Enslow]

And they are still selling doe tags. Might as well just open season on hen pheasants when they are down. Every time you dont draw a tag think about the following story. I have friends from South Carolina that bought and filled 50 non resident doe tags with their bows while up here waterfowl hunting back in the high deer number days. I saw a pic of the deer pile. The tags were 50 bucks a piece. It was all legal. The NDGF will never share factual reports with the public, they write biased political reports that are full of false information. Look at the non factual garbage they spewed about bowhunting last year. The people that live out of town have a much better grasp on deer numbers than the big game biologists in bismarck. They are politicians, not biologists.

 

[eyexer]

it's a complete farce. I work along the lake in western ND and rarely see deer. The numbers are so low they should be closing the season for the foreseeable future.

 

[tman]

I got a buck tag so no I'm not butt hurt but my problem is I know 5 non residents that got drawn 2 buck and 3 does (which I have no problem with) if they have enough tags for residents. My problem is I know way more than 5 residents that got turned down for there second choice doe but yet the non residents got tags ( which I consider all five my buddies so happy to be able to hunt with them) but they shouldn't be getting tags over the tax paying residents imo

 

[Toby2]

Ok guys I thought this would be a good time to bring this issue up again with so many unsuccessful applicants. I think the game and fish MUST do a better job of knowing how many deer are out there and how many each unit has. The way I understand it they primarily go off of the year before success rate for how many license's they issue the next year, and if we do get enough snow they do a fly over (once every 15 years we have enough snow according to them) down three Rivers and one slough to determine how many deer there are.

BUT!!!! Every year they drive across the WHOLE state and count every duck in EACH slough they see. They drive and do crow counts for pheasants, count grouse they check about every single animal except deer!!!! I would think deer hunting is the most popular by far in this state so why don't they spend more time trying to know how many deer are out there. The low deer numbers go back to a few years ago when they issued 120,000 tags when it should have been 60,000

We all know there are certain areas that the deer winter year after year there is know reason they can't count them areas. Why can't they check 30-40 spots in EACH unit???

I do not believe what they are doing right now is enough and if the game and fish won't change than we might have to make them do so in other ways than just calling them and bitching. Ballot measure or through the legislature. I really don't know but something has to be done so this does not happen again.

I do know you cannot always keep a bunch of deer around because of hard winters but I also know it was very few years after the winter of 97 that the state was issuing record tag numbers

The worst problem with nobody getting any tags right now is we are losing a whole generation of hunters right now. It's hard to get a young kid into hunting if they never get a tag. We need to get this issue fixed so it never happens again and we never lose another generation of hunters.

I agree 100%. Deer hunting was always the traditional family outing type thing. Kids got out of school early on Fridays so they could go with and experience the fun of deer hunting. I remember when I was a little kid and got to go with my parents deer hunting, seemed like they usually got a tag every year unless it was a buck tag. It was fun and exciting to me.

I also agree in regard to the counting process for deer. It is not very likely that one would be able to count deer in the same mannerisms that one would get an idea about waterfowl or pheasants. Deer are typically most active in the early morning hours and the last hour of daylight, which in the summer time is well after the 5PM clock out time. For instance, my hunting unit is 2G, not a very big unit at all. From my own personal scouting of this area since March we have seen double the deer from 3 years ago. Heck, just a 5 by 5 mile square drive from the farm we have been seeing 31 deer on a constant basis. Last year it was 19, the year before it was 17, and the year before that it was 15. We have been keeping track and documenting. Last year the tag number for our unit was 400. This year they dropped it to 300.

I honestly believe that if scouting by the Game and Fish were to be done in the later evening hours for several weeks the numbers would show a different story than what is currently being portrayed...in a lot of units, probably not all. My uncle is actually a wildlife biologist for the Game and Fish out of Jamestown, haven't talked to him about the process this year yet. I am thinking that there is limited manpower resources within the Game and Fish and maybe budget constraints that limit the effective research and documentation of the deer population currently. Maybe one day that will change. I am hoping that it comes back around towards the positive as, like you said, will have a negative impact upon our youth. Just my 2 cents.

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The problem I see with scouting for several weeks, for deer, starting in March also cuts into time of other wildlife research. Pheasants, waterfowl nesting sites, waterfowl migration, turkey population surveys, grouse breeding ground studies, partridge studies, and much more. I am not positive the exact number of wildlife biologists that work for the Game and Fish but that seems like there is an awful lot to study within North Dakota in a short amount of time working 40 hours a week. I state March because that is when one would have to start deer population studies to get an accurate assessment for the upcoming season due to the fact that applications for tags need to be submitted by the 1st week of June.

 

[DirtyMike]

This is all fine and dandy but your messages will be nothing but frustrated banter here. Copy what you've said and send an email to the GnF. It might not do anything but, get enough of those letters and they won't be able deny it for much longer. The system isn't perfect and many people got turned down, but it's what we have now.

 

[Bed Wetter]

 

[guywhofishes]

I bet Vollmer coded NDA in a swivel chair. Just sayin'.

 

[Vollmer]

I bet Vollmer coded NDA in a swivel chair. Just sayin'.

But, I made the decision while scouting oddly enough.

 

[eyexer]

we need to come down hard on the game and fish for allowing non resident tags. there shouldn't be a single non resident tag if one resident is turned down. start pounding on your legislators too.

 

[guywhofishes]

But, I made the decision while scouting oddly enough.

Figures. Slim is right... Again.;:;banghead

 

[Bed Wetter]

Figures. Slim is right... Again.;:;banghead

Technically, Gen. George S. Patton was right.

 

[Enslow]

it's a complete farce. I work along the lake in western ND and rarely see deer. The numbers are so low they should be closing the season for the foreseeable future.

Actually further east the numbers are the highest since 2010 ish

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I bet Vollmer coded NDA in a swivel chair. Just sayin'.

Guy do you have any extra butthurt butter to spare? I am fresh out...

 

[huntorride365]

we need to come down hard on the game and fish for allowing non resident tags. there shouldn't be a single non resident tag if one resident is turned down. start pounding on your legislators too.

I would agree with this, as long as the rest of the states disallow anyone from North Dakota to hunt their state.
How much crying do you think would occur when the residents tag prices have to increase to make up for the money previously received from non-residents?

 

[bigbrad123]

I've said it before and will say it again.......wouldn't be that hard IMO to do a survey each year. Make it a requirement to get a tag. I understand some would lie, but again, it's just one more tool in the box to help more accurately evaluate the population and success.

 

[Enslow]

Actually further east the numbers are the highest since 2010 ish

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Guy do you have any extra butthurt butter to spare? I am fresh out...

Icy hot was a bad choice... Thanks guy for hogging all the butthurt butter.

 

[sdwxman]

I would agree with this, as long as the rest of the states disallow anyone from North Dakota to hunt their state.
How much crying do you think would occur when the residents tag prices have to increase to make up for the money previously received from non-residents?

Right. If ND bans non-residents from Deer Hunting, then SD should follow suite and disallow all ND hunters from Deer/Antelope hunting here. I am a non-resident (grew up in Bismarck however), and apply to hunt deer with family. I have been drawn once in 10 years.

And for those that want to bang on the ND game and fish for non-resident tags, you are wasting your time. Its the legislature that determines that.

 

[Enslow]

Right. If ND bans non-residents from Deer Hunting, then SD should follow suite and disallow all ND hunters from Deer/Antelope hunting here. I am a non-resident (grew up in Bismarck however), and apply to hunt deer with family. I have been drawn once in 10 years.

And for those that want to bang on the ND game and fish for non-resident tags, you are wasting your time. Its the legislature that determines that.

Exactly and those decisions are not based upon anything scientific. #politics. I do not have a problem with non resident tags at all, but when i found out that 50 tags were sold to one group of hunters i was shocked. I was even more shocked they were able to fill them all.

 

[Ericb]

Isn't it somthing like 5% of tags in each unit go to non residents? I couldn't find this online. 15% of the mule deer tags from the previous year are issued as non res bow tags(170). If I am right about the 5% that would be a little over 2000 non resident tags available. I don't have a problem with that. I'd be curious to know how many out of state big game tags are awarded to Nd residents each year? Probably not quite the same as we give but pretty damn close. Now how many of those non res tags go to people who grew up here and moved away for work? I grew up in AZ and still own land there. I'd be pissed if the state said I can longer comeback and hunt my own land.

 

[DirtyMike]

I've said it before and will say it again.......wouldn't be that hard IMO to do a survey each year. Make it a requirement to get a tag. I understand some would lie, but again, it's just one more tool in the box to help more accurately evaluate the population and success.

I get a survey in the mail every year. I expect to get it so I scout and hunt knowing that I'll be keeping the number of deer seen written down.