"Excess" Corp lands above 1620 in Emmons and Morton Counties to Private Owners

[johnr]

It's bullshit, the entire thing

 

[Trip McNeely]

your goddamn right its bullshit. if in fact they do somehow "give" this land to private hands this could have a devastating snowball effect. all the people who hunt/recreate there would be pushed out into new areas. you think its hard to get on land now? all so the few can have it all. i dont even see how thus pos can legally back a bill in which he stands to gain financially from. how is that not a conflict of interest?

 

[shorthairsrus]

My mothers parents had to sell out - they had land close to the ramp at centennial. They sold to the mining company --which in turn sold to the govt (no dog int he fight here). IMO if the govt is going to sell land -- it needs to be at FMV and sold to the highest bidder. I dont want to see any land sold -- but i fear that its just a matter of time as the majority look at as just wasted land, they dont hunt or fish.

 

[PrairieGhost]

If the govt didnt force land transfer, there would be no lake sak, bismarck would be flooded every spring and a small stream by august. The dams are a good thing for everyone from us down to the gulf of mexico. People who lost their farms and land were compensated, and Im guessing quite well, judging by how things like that have been done recently.

I have a friend here in Jamestown who's father had to sell two sections. They bought eight sections down here and a business in town with money left over.

I am happy to see people fired up. This land grab thing is happening all over the west. Nothing new, but we need to be constantly vigilant.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Someone needs to put together a Map of the areas it will affect.

If you go off of the simple description of all land above 1620el. Then you are talking about 90%+ off all the little heart bottoms (Schmidt), same thing for Graner Bottoms. Those are just the large sections of land.

For the Emmons county side it doesn't look as severe in the northern parts, parts of the southern tip of the range, parts of badger bay area. But as you go south, all the public around Beaver Bay, Beaver Creek, Cattail, Langliers.....

We are talking thousands of acres. Many of which are some of the best public hunting, fishing, and camping areas close to Bismarck.

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If anyone wants to do some research on their own. Download Google Earth and if you look on the lower right portion of the screen you will see the elevation of the land that the mouse curser is currently over.

Something is wrong. I live south of Bis below Mary college and the flood plane elevation is 1634 so anything at 1620 would have been under about 10 feet of water in 2011

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

Tim,
I cant seem to find anything on HB1457 that you reference in regards to a land transfer. What I find pertains to firearms.......
http://openstates.org/nd/bills/64/HB1457/


Here is what I find in regards to HB1456
http://openstates.org/nd/bills/64/HB1456/

If Schmidt and Brandenburg do have interests in "free land" and are the ND Senators driving this legislation (which makes sense to me), then it is complete BS and they need to be run out of office. Talk about corrupt and selfish. I see where not only the land will get transferred, for no cost, but the mineral acres will go with it! Its a win win for the corrupt politicians and an obvious land grab to me. Another example of taxpayer rip off!! Who wouldn't want river bottom land, with mineral acres, given to them!!??

Sorry Obi, I meant 1456.

Here it is (hyperlinked in first post). http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/64-2015/documents/15-0603-03004m.pdf

The bill currently being drafted for introduction to US congress specifically delegates the state may and will try to transfer lands to private.

And yes, as mentioned by someone else Schmidt requires the wildlife management areas to be transferred or the intent is moot.

Contact the governors office. But be prepared to receive lip service talking points that will say protections will be placed for access, ramps etc. So when you call be sure to specifically ask about wildlife management acres.

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I also suggest contacting the Corp asking how these acres can be in excess (or no longer needed) for the Project Purposes.

I have email conversations going on now regarding Sakakawea and will share when information comes available.

 

[Archemedes]

I just registered on this site to express how absurd this whole idea is that a legislator who personally has something to gain by this stealing of land from the public is the one pushing this issue. There needs to be a reckoning about his conduct.

 

[shorthairsrus]

Politicians = coruption

 

[PrairieGhost]

Politicians = coruption

I agree, and that's why I have mixed feelings about more power to the states. There is no doubt our federal government is corrupt, but so is every state. When it comes to power to the states I like the idea when it comes to education. I like the idea when it comes to many social issues like who uses what bathroom. I don't like the idea when it comes to giving federal public land control to the states. We often hear how many times do you see your senator compared to how many times you see your local representative. Local representatives are more responsive to you. I'll interpret that for you: it means easier to get what I want. Easier to control. Easier to buy off, easier to corrupt in my favor.

 

[gst]

Politicians = coruption

...........and yet everyone wants them "managing" and controlling these lands. They want these politicians and their govt buying and owning more lands. politicians ARE "govt"........, govt is corrupt.

People like plainsman want to make it seem with his stories that these people whos lands were taken by this corrupt govt/politicians were greatly compensated. That simply in most cases was not the case. There are far more instances of broken promises than windfalls historically when the govt "takes" private properties. If one wishes you can learn of the "promises" that were made when the Missouri - Souris Project was initially proposed that never came about.

This particular bill I know nothing about and going off Tim's information it seems there may indeed be issues to be vocal about. But lets stick to the issues in this particular bill and not muddy the waters for once with the typical rhetoric that some try.

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Wasn't there a ND legislator from south of Mandan that was pushing something like this a few years back? I think his family had some land around the granor bottoms area and he wanted it back

If this was the case, perhaps people speaking out still control our state govt.

Tim, when will there be legislative hearings on this particular bill that the people that are posting their outrage on here can take time to attend ?

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I agree, and that's why I have mixed feelings about more power to the states. There is no doubt our federal government is corrupt, but so is every state. When it comes to power to the states I like the idea when it comes to education. I like the idea when it comes to many social issues like who uses what bathroom. I don't like the idea when it comes to giving federal public land control to the states. We often hear how many times do you see your senator compared to how many times you see your local representative. Local representatives are more responsive to you. I'll interpret that for you: it means easier to get what I want. Easier to control. Easier to buy off, easier to corrupt in my favor.

You can;t pick and choose which parts of our Constitution you support our govt following and claim yourself a conservative.

 

[johnr]

I have a client that sold 17 acres to the city as his farm land was needed for a truck bypass, he made 680,000 on those 17 acres.

How many wheat crops does that equate into?

I will tell you 800 on an average per acre profit.

not a bad deal as I don't think he will be able to put 800 more years into farming that land.

 

[Lycanthrope]

There is a reason ND is one of the few states that doesnt have a state level government oversight committee, and it isnt because all our politicians are upstanding / honorable folks....

 

[gst]

I have a client that sold 17 acres to the city as his farm land was needed for a truck bypass, he made 680,000 on those 17 acres.

How many wheat crops does that equate into?

I will tell you 800 on an average per acre profit.

not a bad deal as I don't think he will be able to put 800 more years into farming that land.

Little different scenario than what occured for these flood control projects where govt says we are taking your land this is what we will give you.

Out of curiousity, what would he have got selling that land to a private developer 3 years ago or even today?

 

[KDM]

I just registered on this site to express how absurd this whole idea is that a legislator who personally has something to gain by this stealing of land from the public is the one pushing this issue. There needs to be a reckoning about his conduct.

Yep!! A heaping pile of horse shit with this deal!!!!!!!!!! Oh and WELCOME!!!

 

[Wild and Free]

If the govt didnt force land transfer, there would be no lake sak, bismarck would be flooded every spring and a small stream by august. The dams are a good thing for everyone from us down to the gulf of mexico. People who lost their farms and land were compensated, and Im guessing quite well, judging by how things like that have been done recently.

They "The corp and gov" are gaining thousands of acres a year for free from the land owners now too because of the dams and lakes from such dams. River is narrower and deeper and eroding away shore lines at an unprecedented rate and then look at the hills and buttes round the lake especially the south side pretty bad when one can measure you land loss by the Yards every year. The lake has a finite life once it silts in which is has. I read an article many years ago about the expected life of the lake until it is silted in and defeats its intended purpose and it was not as far out as one would think but I can not recall where I saw it or what the #'s were.

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

Tim, when will there be legislative hearings on this particular bill that the people that are posting their outrage on here can take time to attend ?

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.

gst,

I have no idea how federal legislation is heard in committee and I have no idea when. This is federal legislation and not state legislation so I suppose a guy has to jump on a plane and fly to D.C.

But here-in-lies the issue. There have been no (zero) public meetings. The bill as being drafted by the Governor's office and supported by Heidi, Cramer and Hoeven has been behind closed doors.

Until last week, the NDGF had no idea about it. Nor even Lance Gaebe. They just had a meeting behind closed doors yesterday and now gag order talking points are only to be discussed.

Word is, the question of NDGF wildlife management areas was brought up and it was strongly confirmed the bill sponsors demanded they remain transferred.

Again, I need to understand how acres area even in excess of the project purposes of the Garrison Dam.

 

[gst]

My misunderstanding Tim. I thought from your "extension" comment the state legislation bill had been tabled to next session. There would have been opportunity to testify at the state level on HB 1456 had anyone been aware of it by simply driving to Bismarck.

But your here in lies the issue point simply bolsters the real problem with Fed govt involved in managing and owning these lands in the manner they do.

Who here will hop on a plane and fly to DC?

Lets see how responsive Federal legislators are.

Tim there have been a number of things added to the original intent ofthe Pick Sloan Missouri Basin plan from it's original intent. Perhaps they are considering what lands are needed for the original intent?

http://www.garrisondiv.org/about_us/history_federal_legislation/

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

My misunderstanding Tim. I thought from your "extension" comment the state legislation bill had been tabled to next session. There would have been opportunity to testify at the state level on HB 1456 had anyone been aware of it by simply driving to Bismarck.

But your here in lies the issue point simply bolsters the real problem with Fed govt involved in managing and owning these lands in the manner they do.

Who here will hop on a plane and fly to DC?

Lets see how responsive Federal legislators are.

Tim there have been a number of things added to the original intent ofthe Pick Sloan Missouri Basin plan from it's original intent. Perhaps they are considering what lands are needed for the original intent?

http://www.garrisondiv.org/about_us/history_federal_legislation/

People did testify to HB 1456. I myself did (through written testimony via email). I'm guessing I made a phone call or two as well.

And as result, if you'll revisit the link to HB 1456 the people did speak. They forced amending of the bill to throw out transfering so called excess or no longer needed lands around Sakakawea and more specifically to the Oahe issue they tossed out transferring lands to "appropriate persons."

What's happening is the Governor being only "encouraged" to draft legislation to transfer has decided to be a hypocrite and throw away 30 years defending there are no excess acres and ensuring public lands and water access.

How responsive are the federal legislators? I called Hoeven's office and got through. They all three support the bill (of which the public has not seen). Their response to me was "they are doing what the people want." That's a blatant lie as I have just explained the will of the people was to amend the state bill to remove language transferring lands to private individuals.

As to your comment on the Garrison Diversion Unit I'm not quite following? Here's the Master Plan EA that was agreed to in 2007. That is for Sakakawea. I'd have to do some big time reading for Oahe as I haven't finished the 800 plus pages for Sakakwea. But here is the page to get the project plans for all projects:

http://www.nwo.usace.army.mil/Missions/DamandLakeProjects/ProjectMasterPlans.aspx

 

[gst]

Tim here is what I meant by "original" intent of what was behind the building of the Garrison dam from the link I shared. Only later was wildlife and recreation included.

My point in sharing that link was to show that many times the reasons why the taking of private lands are justified changes after they are "taken".

What kind of push back would there have been if "recreation" was listed as the purpose behind the taking of private lands? Yet now recreation is a primary point in what people want these "taken" lands managed for.

"On December 22, 1944, Congress authorized the Flood Control Act, later named the Pick-Sloan Missouri Basin Program. The primary purpose was for flood control, navigation, irrigation and hydropower, which would be facilitated by the construction of six main stem dams on the Missouri River at Fort Peck, Garrison, Oahe, Big Bend, Fort Randall and Gavins Point.
North Dakota was promised over a million acres of irrigation as compensation for the 300,000 acres of prime farmland lost to the permanent flood created as a result of the dams and the lost economic benefit that farmland generated. The state was originally to receive this irrigation from water diverted from Fort Peck Dam in eastern Montana. Initially known as the “Missouri-Souris Project,” it included 1,275,000 acres."

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So it seems that the representatives in our state legislature did listen to those that shared their views?

And now the Federal level representatives are not when lame duck politicians try to pass something?

That seems to support the thought that state management of public lands would be more responsive to we the people .

 

[Trip McNeely]

if the state came out and said they intended to make all the acres of formally corp into a giant state wildlife area open to any and all forms of recreation i dont think anyone would be upset. its the thought of once public lands open to all being given to private citizens that pisses me off. its corrupt and just plain wrong. im sure the state would do a fine job managing it if thats where it stopped but it wont until a few greedy pieces of shit get there paws on it