House Bill 1151- Prohibiting baiting bans

[wct12]

Nope - not me.

GST and I are probably way more alike than different - but he had (and almost certainly still has) a severe character flaw.

That is - he'll twist your words and gaslight without conscience.

Once he's decided he's right, he will selectively pull quotes from previous posts. He'll attack your character.

He'll endlessly put up little quotes out of context to sully your name or put you in a labeled box you don't belong in - even on posts unrelated to his big beef. Constantly hoping to draw you back in for another endless back/forth with ZERO chance of him ever admitting he was wrong to falsely impugn your character.

He's probably a good man offline as far as his values and I wish him well.

BUT he's got sociopathic tendencies like Toby - he's never going to change and we don't need his manipulation and manufactured drama here.

He (and Fritz) were major advocates of the all land is posted legislation - and GST selectively pulled quotes from posts from this very forum to unfairly characterize "the sportsman of ND".

I remember - even if you don't.

When something is posted on a public forum, it's just that.. posted on a public forum and can be used.. if a direct quote is pulled, it's a still a quote, and those in defense could pull snippets from his comments (it happens) and use against him also.

If you post something on a forum and expect that someone won't use it against you that's on you.. he advocates for private property rights, against government infringements, and does something 99% of people won't do.. show up from behind a computer screen and actually be involved.

I think he got put into a box he didn't belong in (supporting the first version of the trespass bill) even though he opposed it for a variety of reasons, he supported later versions of it and amendments, but again.. he showed up and spoke his mind instead of just typing it on a computer..

Enough of the talk on him.. 3 days left to submit testimony, and I know a lot of guys that have talked big behind a screen but have yet to post testimony.. time for the big push!

 

[NPO_Aaron]

I'm excited for this to be over. Whenever that day comes.

 

[wct12]

Nope - not me.

GST and I are probably way more alike than different - but he had (and almost certainly still has) a severe character flaw.

That is - he'll twist your words and gaslight without conscience.

Once he's decided he's right, he will selectively pull quotes from previous posts. He'll attack your character.

He'll endlessly put up little quotes out of context to sully your name or put you in a labeled box you don't belong in - even on posts unrelated to his big beef. Constantly hoping to draw you back in for another endless back/forth with ZERO chance of him ever admitting he was wrong to falsely impugn your character.

He's probably a good man offline as far as his values and I wish him well.

BUT he's got sociopathic tendencies like Toby - he's never going to change and we don't need his manipulation and manufactured drama here.

He (and Fritz) were major advocates of the all land is posted legislation - and GST selectively pulled quotes from posts from this very forum to unfairly characterize "the sportsman of ND".

I remember - even if you don't.

This is an outdoors forum.. and although I don't check many forums (when this one stops I probably will never check nodakangler until the next big issues pops up).. but from my scanning I have saw about 3 people stand up for private property rights and all 3 have been bashed in some extent by the same sportsmen that ask them to recreate on the land.. the divide happening between landowners and sportsmen is alarming and a dangerous path in my opinion.. those relationships made between landowner and sportsmen (I hunt much more then the average person) and every year send thank you letters, gift cards and Trinkets to land owners that let us hunt a few times a year..

In the last 5 years as land owners and as a person who has helped a decent chunk of people with once in a lifetime moose tags, I've received one thank you letter from an older gentleman for the help.

Maybe the new narrative should not be a negative one towards people with differing thoughts on private property rights, but an insightful one that we're just every day outdoorsman that love it just as much as everyone else. There is the bad apple in every bunch.. but my return success rate for being able to hunt land year after year is very high due to relationships built.

 

[Ruttin]

I actually would have liked to see that - red , don’t bother asking . Green , go ahead and hunt these specific species , yellow , ask in person or call and you may possibly be granted permission

I am for putting up a simple sign that says No Hunting/No Trespassing. Remember how easy it was? The good ol' days.

 

[Ruttin]

This is an outdoors forum.. and although I don't check many forums (when this one stops I probably will never check nodakangler until the next big issues pops up).. but from my scanning I have saw about 3 people stand up for private property rights and all 3 have been bashed in some extent by the same sportsmen that ask them to recreate on the land.. the divide happening between landowners and sportsmen is alarming and a dangerous path in my opinion.. those relationships made between landowner and sportsmen (I hunt much more then the average person) and every year send thank you letters, gift cards and Trinkets to land owners that let us hunt a few times a year..

In the last 5 years as land owners and as a person who has helped a decent chunk of people with once in a lifetime moose tags, I've received one thank you letter from an older gentleman for the help.

Maybe the new narrative should not be a negative one towards people with differing thoughts on private property rights, but an insightful one that we're just every day outdoorsman that love it just as much as everyone else. There is the bad apple in every bunch.. but my return success rate for being able to hunt land year after year is very high due to relationships built.

This is turning into the angry landowner thread... Gabe comes on here claiming to be his kid. Good times ahead!

 

[guywhofishes]

When something is posted on a public forum, it's just that.. posted on a public forum and can be used.. if a direct quote is pulled, it's a still a quote, and those in defense could pull snippets from his comments (it happens) and use against him also.

Citing quotes out of context in order to impugn someone's character, in order to combat their having previously cited quotes of mine out of context in order to impugn my character, just doesn't sound like a wise use of my time.

 

[guywhofishes]

the divide happening between landowners and sportsmen is alarming and a dangerous path in my opinion..

That's ironic - coming from a Thompson.

You do realize that GST never once conceded that there were bad landowners or that they had character flaws - right?

According to GST - landowners had every right to be douchebags and don't you dare suggest that they might be flawed or bad actors in any way. "Property rights ramble ramble ramble..... quote... character assassination... quote quote ramble ramble...."!!!!

I challenge you to find a quote of his where he accepted criticism, admitted being wrong, or concede a point that gave any quarter to "the opposition".

On the other hand - the sportsmen he routinely attacked called out their own for trespassing, damaging signs, etc. all the time. We collectively recognize how damaging that can be.

Nope - I don't recall that GST ever once conceded a point. And he lived to drag the opposition through the mud whether it was justified or not. He definitely left his mark here, that's for sure. Nobody was ever going to get one over on him.

 

[wct12]

This is turning into the angry landowner thread... Gabe comes on here claiming to be his kid. Good times ahead!

Last post here then.. you can check my Facebook.. about everything I'm on is WCT12 As username and my is Wyatt.. not once did this get brought into a private property rights argument, I even stated earlier it wasn't a private property rights use, until it got brought up by someone else or they drug my dad who isn't on here. I kinda see why he doesn't really have the want to come back on here though after my 2 weeks of interactions

 

[bravo]

He (and Fritz) were major advocates of the all land

This is an outdoors forum.. and although I don't check many forums (when this one stops I probably will never check nodakangler until the next big issues pops up).. but from my scanning I have saw about 3 people stand up for private property rights and all 3 have been bashed in some extent by the same sportsmen that ask them to recreate on the land.. the divide happening between landowners and sportsmen is alarming and a dangerous path in my opinion.. those relationships made between landowner and sportsmen (I hunt much more then the average person) and every year send thank you letters, gift cards and Trinkets to land owners that let us hunt a few times a year..

In the last 5 years as land owners and as a person who has helped a decent chunk of people with once in a lifetime moose tags, I've received one thank you letter from an older gentleman for the help.

Maybe the new narrative should not be a negative one towards people with differing thoughts on private property rights, but an insightful one that we're just every day outdoorsman that love it just as much as everyone else. There is the bad apple in every bunch.. but my return success rate for being able to hunt land year after year is very high due to relationships built.

And this is where I always knew we would end up. My property rights blah blah blah. Sorry you live in America, and owning land doesn't mean you get to write your own laws. I have yet to see what property rights are under attack in ND. Hopefully those blessed enough to take an animal off your land shower you with gifts like the king you are.

-Signed, a fellow ND landowner

 

[wct12]

And this is where I always knew we would end up. My property rights blah blah blah. Sorry you live in America, and owning land doesn't mean you get to write your own laws. I have yet to see what property rights are under attack in ND. Hopefully those blessed enough to take an animal off your land shower you with gifts like the king you are.

-Signed, a fellow ND landowner

As i said earlier.. this isn't a private property rights issue at all.. just stated there's a divide when if got brought up by someone else.

Baiting was a tool others used on our land to harvest a deer.. nothing property rights orientated there. Was just saying the divide is spreading because of forums and opinions along with other things. Where did I state baiting is a property right at all?

 

[Kurtr]

And this is where I always knew we would end up. My property rights blah blah blah. Sorry you live in America, and owning land doesn't mean you get to write your own laws. I have yet to see what property rights are under attack in ND. Hopefully those blessed enough to take an animal off your land shower you with gifts like the king you are.

-Signed, a fellow ND landowner

You know what they say glass house and all. Dont get to high and mighty as your doing the same thing in a back handed bha type way. You dont like baiting and cwd is just the means to an end.

 

[bravo]

You know what they say glass house and all. Dont get to high and mighty as your doing the same thing in a back handed bha type way. You dont like baiting and cwd is just the means to an end.

I'll go on record and say again, I am all for baiting. Done it. Don't care if others do it. I am against legislators writing new laws that take management powers from the G&F and put them in their own hands.

 

[wjschmaltz]

I'll go on record and say again, I am all for baiting. Done it. Don't care if others do it. I am against legislators writing new laws that take management powers from the G&F and put them in their own hands.

Bingo. I knew form the beginning this anecdote would be nearly impossible for people to grasp so I tapped out early. Also, 90% of the comments are arguing and making "gotcha" statements that have nothing to do with the point NDGF is trying to make. We will see if they can indeed "show their work" to back up what they are saying (what could very well be different from what I always perceived) and maybe better explain their rationale. And I guess the conversation can move from there.

Right now, in Alaska, we are fighting politicians trying to shut down our bear baiting against the recommendations of our Fish and Game biologists. All kinds of news stories about how unethical it is and that we're feeding them only doughnuts and KFC grease. The road runs both way folks. And now several people in North Dakota non-hunting public that otherwise didn't care or weren't aware that baiting is a thing are making their own ethical stance; which I honestly have no doubt some anti-hunting group will capitalize on in the near future.

 

[Kurtr]

I'll go on record and say again, I am all for baiting. Done it. Don't care if others do it. I am against legislators writing new laws that take management powers from the G&F and put them in their own hands.

So its ok for the g&f to just make laws up with no scientific standing. They are doing what the legislators are doing by trying to ban it. It burden of proof is on them. Prove that baiting spreads it other wise its just another wear your mask to lower the curve type operation. I keep asking to show spread rates in nd vs sd it shouldnt be that hard to show how a baiting state is spreading or not spreading vs a state with no baiting. In 2021 sd had 54 cases in 2021 nd had 26. Since 1997 32878 animals have been tested in custer state national park with 45 coming back positive. 33 elk and 12 deer. If and its a big if all these people cared about the resource as they say they do, KDM has stated ehd would be at the forefront as it has killed and will kill more deer in a single season than cwd will over the next 20 years. If the g&f were doing their jobs and not folding to outside interest and the scientific money grab this would not be in the politicians hands but they pushed the people to it.

 

[guywhofishes]

OK - so what's the solution to government offering "solutions" to a problem they can't prove is significant (deer pops aren't shrinking) that they can't prove helps the spread (in relation to natural behavior) and it IS easily proven that the regs are causing harm (youth engagement, elderly, handicapped access, better recovery rates)

I could swear I saw this play out somewhere else in recent history (coof... coof)

Seriously - do you guys have an alternative solution? I'm all ears. How do you convince the NDGF to reconsider?

 

[powerman]

This may be a silly question but here goes. I can only remember 1 deer head collection site and it was a Rubbermaid trash can in a truck stop parking lot. So if you have 4 heads in this can and one is positive with cwd, can't these prions spread to other heads?

 

[bravo]

OK - so what's the solution to government offering "solutions" to a problem they can't prove is significant (deer pops aren't shrinking) that they can't prove helps the spread (in relation to natural behavior) and it IS easily proven that the regs are causing harm (youth engagement, elderly, handicapped access, better recovery rates)

I could swear I saw this play out somewhere else in recent history (coof... coof)

Seriously - do you guys have an alternative solution? I'm all ears. How do you convince the NDGF to reconsider?

I'll play that game. Show me definitive proof that the baiting regs are causing harm. Solid, science-backed numbers.

I've already stated my solution. A government hearing where G&F officials are forced to defend their position. A regulation is much easier overturned than a law.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

This may be a silly question but here goes. I can only remember 1 deer head collection site and it was a Rubbermaid trash can in a truck stop parking lot. So if you have 4 heads in this can and one is positive with cwd, can't these prions spread to other heads?

Whether there are four heads in a G&F trash can or four heads at the taxidermist or four heads at the meat processor, who is accountable if samples are labeled incorrectly?

https://www.fourstateshomepage.com/...have-deer-tested-for-chronic-wasting-disease/

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Firearm deer season starts this weekend in Missouri and officials are making sure hunters know about Chronic Wasting Disease.

Since 2012, the Missouri Department of Conservation says 206 positive cases have been identified out of over 150,000 deer tested. McDonald, Barry and Cedar Counties are in the CWD management zone– meaning it is required that hunters have their deer sampled this weekend.

Every hunter will be notified if their deer tests positive for CWD.

“We encourage everybody to be safe. Opening weekend statewide, there’s probably going to be more than 400,000 hunters out in the wood. It’s a big time for a lot of Missourians. This is a season they look forward to all year, but never let that excitement overrule good judgment,” said Francis Skalicky, Media Specialist, Missouri Department of Conservation.

Deer that have been tested for Chronic Wasting Disease can be taken to a processor and donated to the “Share The Harvest” program to provide venison to those in need.

Wow, what if the samples were mixed up? A person in need didn't need that.

They have tested 150,000 deer. If they test another 150,000, will that make the disease go away? Bureaucrats need to have their heads tested.

 

[db-2]

At least we are all together on this. Maybe getting a little touchy.
My suggestion to let gst back i assume is going nowhere.

But it was a great day for me. Went with son in his track side by side. Picked up some cameras (one was gone), found one fresh shed that must of just drop as there were drops of blood on the ground, seen a lot of deer beds and tracks for shed hunting this spring, brought alfalfa bales up to one site and only one bucket of corn and hopefully did not stress any deer out with my presents. Kid has shot a ton of coyotes. No value and there are still a bunch to kill.

Cannot believe all the pheasants and rabbits at two of our sites. They do enjoy the alfalfa. Bigger bucks still have their horns for next year however he has found quite a few on the ground.
Great day and said a prayer in the field for the right decision no matter what.
Yes, it was a great day. Only seeing big boobs could have made it better. db

 

[KDM]

I'll play that game. Show me definitive proof that the baiting regs are causing harm. Solid, science-backed numbers.

I've already stated my solution. A government hearing where G&F officials are forced to defend their position. A regulation is much easier overturned than a law.

The GnF is making the claim that putting out some corn to hunt deer is spreading CWD. It is up to them to prove that claim. Until then, putting corn out to hunt deer with is INNOCENT of spreading CWD until PROVEN GUILTY. The trouble is.......They can't prove it. I can PROVE that Wyoming's bait ban hasn't stopped or even limited the spread of CWD one damn bit. In the 38 years they've had it, and their bait ban, it's spreading by 1.1 million acres per year. Their own data on their own website. I can also PROVE that Wisconsin's bait ban as well as Minnesota's bait ban hasn't limited the spread of CWD for one damn bit either. Just look at their own data on their own websites. CWD is still spreading in both states in spite of the bans on baiting. I can also PROVE that baiting leads to more successful hunts. Especially for youth, limited mobility hunters, as well as others so to ban the practice WILL HARM HUNTERS by making them less successful. Is that definitive enough??

Oh I forgot about South Dakota. They have a bait ban and CWD is still spreading there as well. Go figure.