House Bill 1151- Prohibiting baiting bans

[bravo]

This is where we enter the circular conversation. Yeah, there is no way to prove a bait ban works or doesn't since populations don't work in a vacuum. The division director's quote was "It’s more likely to be spread when they’re pulled together in times of year when they normally aren’t.” Basic probability and statistics would back that claim. Do you disagree? And they have listened. There have been calls to ban baiting entirely, yet they compromised and adopted the policy in place where its only banned in the vicinity of confirmed disease. Seems nobody for this bill is considering the big picture issues it poses.

 

[measure-it]

Looks like a lot of posters on here have a real bone to pick with North Dakota Bowhunters Ass'n. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but they need to check the facts before they spew and degrade their dislike.
NDBA represents hundreds of outdoorspeople, and fight for the betterment of wildlife and sporting opportunities on the North Dakota landscape. It's good for bowhunters, but also serves to protect general sportspeople and the outdoors and it's wildlife they love!
NDBA basically say that politicians know a lot less than trained professionals, researchers, and field experience when it comes to wildlife management.
Let the ND G & F watch over our wildlife...far before an elected "know-it-all".
We, the common folk of the ND outdoors, have our chance to voice our opinions and thoughts to the G & F at any time, plus at the Advisory Meetings held around the state.
I proudly support the NDBA, and have since 1972...50 years!!

 

[Fritz the Cat]

So who all listened to Ted Nugent and Keith Mark on Your Talk? I believe it will be replayed at 3:00.

It's at the bottom of the hour so it should be more like 4:00

 

[PrairieGhost]

NDBA represents hundreds of outdoorspeople, and fight for the betterment of wildlife and sporting opportunities on the North Dakota landscape.

I don't really believe that. I believe that sometimes they work against us. I have heard them badmouth compound bows often when I was with them. Publicly at local clubs.

How many NDBA members now?

Fritz personally I like Nugent, but sometimes his tactless approach is good, sometimes it isn't. Im not sure he doesn't apply it as at the wrong times. Not in this current world where people are so touchy.

 

[db-2]

of the 17 replies to 1151 on the internet, 15 in favor and 2 oppose.
Those opposes state game and fish knows best and the rest of us to need to listen to them. db

But the reason i hear is they are not sure, but they need to do something to maintain creditability in the public eye.

 

[Kurtr]

This is where we enter the circular conversation. Yeah, there is no way to prove a bait ban works or doesn't since populations don't work in a vacuum. The division director's quote was "It’s more likely to be spread when they’re pulled together in times of year when they normally aren’t.” Basic probability and statistics would back that claim. Do you disagree? And they have listened. There have been calls to ban baiting entirely, yet they compromised and adopted the policy in place where its only banned in the vicinity of confirmed disease. Seems nobody for this bill is considering the big picture issues it poses.

Wouldn’t it be easy to prove if you compared spread rate in Wyoming and South Dakota who have never allowed baiting vs North Dakota.

 

[NodakBob]

I agree that nobody knows what to do to manage CWD...I'm more against the bill for the simple reason of: What's next in non-wildlife professionals trying the political route to get what they want? ...just look at California...

 

[bravo]

Wouldn’t it be easy to prove if you compared spread rate in Wyoming and South Dakota who have never allowed baiting vs North Dakota.

No, since there's no control population. And you can't accurately show the hypothetical results of the disease spread (what-if scenarios) if they had chosen another management practice. The rise in CWD rates from 3% to 70% in Saskatchewan over 15 years, while never enforcing baiting regulations, doesn't prove anything either. But it should be in the conversation as to why the G&F thinks something should be done.

 

[bravo]

I agree that nobody knows what to do to manage CWD...I'm more against the bill for the simple reason of: What's next in non-wildlife professionals trying the political route to get what they want? ...just look at California...

In 8 years the state will have all new faces due to term limits. How many will be anti-trapping? How many will think mountain lions are too beautiful to hunt? How many will be bought by anti-hunting interests or ag groups to continue dismantling the game and fish? This is just the beginning I'm afraid.

 

[5575]

Anyone see this when checking your preference points? It was there this weekend then disappeared..test run if they don't get their way??

 

[KDM]

I agree that nobody knows what to do to manage CWD...I'm more against the bill for the simple reason of: What's next in non-wildlife professionals trying the political route to get what they want? ...just look at California...

Why does CWD need to be managed? The white tail and elk populations are thriving wherever CWD has been found regardless of how long it's been there. Lets look at a couple states. Colorado has had CWD since 1965. That's 58 years folks. Have their herds been decimated? NOPE! Wyoming 38 years. Are their herds all dead? NOPE! South Dakota 26 years. Wisconsin and Minnesota 21 years. Right here in ND 14 years. All states STILL have thriving herds. So I'll ask again, WHY does CWD need to be managed??

 

[Kurtr]

No, since there's no control population. And you can't accurately show the hypothetical results of the disease spread (what-if scenarios) if they had chosen another management practice. The rise in CWD rates from 3% to 70% in Saskatchewan over 15 years, while never enforcing baiting regulations, doesn't prove anything either. But it should be in the conversation as to why the G&F thinks something should be done.

So are there still deer in Saskatchewan? If there is it seems this is more about control vs really worrying about animals.

 

[NPO_Aaron]

No, since there's no control population. And you can't accurately show the hypothetical results of the disease spread (what-if scenarios) if they had chosen another management practice. The rise in CWD rates from 3% to 70% in Saskatchewan over 15 years, while never enforcing baiting regulations, doesn't prove anything either. But it should be in the conversation as to why the G&F thinks something should be done.

One thing I've been curious about with the statistics given from Saskatchewan is if people understand just how sparse populations in sask are. My wife is from there, so I have had the privilege to run around the countryside a bit. Just from a density of people standpoint, it would be hard to think that just the use of bait is causing that increase. Sask is 3.5x bigger than ND, but only has 1.5x times the people. If anything, that would likely lead to a much larger deer/person ratio and larger populations never coming in contact with a hunter. I'm curious if that Sask situation is more a case study on what happens if populations are allowed to grow with minimal hunting to control it.

Just spitballing.

 

[Devildogg]

In the name of science why haven’t these deer all died yet? Wyoming Colorado Minnesota Wisconsin Michigan all there deer should be dead.

 

[Devildogg]

Keep this in mind also. With the baiting bans in effect in roughly half the state. The pressure on the mule deer population is going to suffer from more hunters heading west to pursue them. The ndgf will put in place a draw tag for the mule deer to relieve some of the pressure placed on the western half of the state. This tag will end up just like the muzzle loader tag where you will have 3-5 points to draw then 5-7 then 9-12 then it will become a once in a lifetime tag. This will be your new archery season.

 

[db-2]

Kurtr:

Side note, went to southern Sask. last spring for a weekend and brought back 400# of antler. At $11-$13/lb with the right buyer. We do not sell horns. Hope to make a nice display one day.
However, in northern Sask. for a week it was not as good maybe due to a major fire a couple of years ago and other Canadian shed hunters up there.

Some excellent thoughts here that i hope get to the hearing coming up. Post these on the site for 1151 as shown on the internet.

Been wanting a Nichols Mark two (45) cap gun since i was a kid as my brother had one. Finally got one in great shape and now a Hubley 45 cap gun. db

 

[db-2]

Had a Nichols derringer as a kid. Got both the Hubley and Nichols derringer also. Few dollars for all but me and the grandson are having a good day. Now to find round caps.

Those oppose state game and fish will lose control which is their job to manage not ours. But like the politicians there is some answering to the public as the politicians do not always have all the answers and we have a right to be involve and question. db

Our we not to question what a doctor may want us to do because they are the profession and known better than us.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I don't really believe that. I believe that sometimes they work against us. I have heard them badmouth compound bows often when I was with them. Publicly at local clubs.

How many NDBA members now?

They claim to have 1000 members. There were 29000 archery licenses sold in ND. That's about 3% of all bowhunters. NDBHA has 9 board members. .03% of bowhunters developed this position.

Fritz personally I like Nugent, but sometimes his tactless approach is good, sometimes it isn't. Im not sure he doesn't apply it as at the wrong times. Not in this current world where people are so touchy.

The Nug was a huge fan of Trump. Enough said.

 

[Freedom]

Was "forced" into NDBA membership to shoot at sandhills archery in West Fargo. Seemed it was part of their fees at the time. Gotta imagine there's at least 100 folks that shoot out there.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

If you missed the program, listen to the podcast at:

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/960-kfyr-kafe-28966374/

Your Talk 1/16/23 10am: Ted Nugent & Keith Mark join Daryl & Todd​

January 16, 2023 • 39 min


Starts at 19 minutes.