House Bill 1151- Prohibiting baiting bans

[bravo]

Baiting has been banned in Minnesota. Now, incrementally they are banning feeding. Anyone knows if freedoms are taken in one fell swoop from the people they will bulk. If freedoms are taken gradually by degrees, they can reluctantly accept.

The Bill HB 1151 had one mission, make Game and Fish prove their science.

Here is what was going to happen in ND if no one challenged things. One by one each deer hunting unit was incrementally going to be banned for baiting until the whole State is closed. After that they would have moved on to ban feeding. Feed restrictions are already happening in Minnesota so the precedent is happening.

Please explain to me how one proves science.

 

[Allen]

After that they would have moved on to ban feeding. Feed restrictions are already happening in Minnesota so the precedent is happening.

Is there reason to believe NDGF has the authority to ban feeding of wildlife? Serious question, as I'm not sure they have the authority to do as MN-DNR (or, was it their legislature?).

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Please explain to me how one proves science.

I'll defer to the experts:

 

[guywhofishes]

The deer herd will eventually develop resistance to CWD. It's inevitable. Nature's arms races like these have been going on for quite a few years now. (snark)

If they don't, and they all die - well then there's not a damn thing we could have done that would stop the pandemic (other than not have EXPERTS feeding mulies in a research center in CO to begin with).

"Slowing it down until we figure out a vaccine, or humic/fulvic acid feeders or something" is absolute hog wash. The poultry industry taught us that such an arms race is futile in the long run. And vaccinating wild deer? WTF. Get real.

Let's all just get on with things, adjust the deer tags to keep the deer at optimum population for the habitat, and move on.

Outlawing baiting was like NDGF commandeering a vehicle from an innocent bystander and putting it on the tracks to stop a runaway freight train. Somebody (your average Joe of course) is now out of a vehicle - and the train is still barreling down the tracks - maybe one or two MPH slower.

But hey - at least they did something and that is in their job description, so their actions should be applauded/supported!

Some days.. I tell ya.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Is there reason to believe NDGF has the authority to ban feeding of wildlife? Serious question, as I'm not sure they have the authority to do as MN-DNR (or, was it their legislature?).

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/cwd/feedban.html

 

[Allen]

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/cwd/feedban.html

I am not disputing that Minnesota has a deer feeding ban, I am asking under what authority you believe NORTH DAKOTA GAME and FISH would use to implement a feeding ban? They clearly aren't going to use Minnesota laws and regulations.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Encroachment, incrementalism, gradualism, mission creep. Allen, take your pick.

 

[risingsun]

Please explain to me how one proves science.

 

[savage270]

Please explain to me how one proves science.

I think they taught the scientific method in 7th grade, so I may be a little rusty on it. But basically to prove science, your hypothesis has to have repeated identical results every time. Like an ice cube melting at 32 degrees or Newton's laws of motion. In this case places that have banned baiting should see a reduced prevalence of CWD every time. I'm not sure that's the case.

 

[db-2]

Cannot prove or disprove science. db

 

[Allen]

Encroachment, incrementalism, gradualism, mission creep. Allen, take your pick.

None of those are written into the ND century code. At least, not that I am aware of...

 

[bravo]

I think they taught the scientific method in 7th grade, so I may be a little rusty on it. But basically to prove science, your hypothesis has to have repeated identical results every time. Like an ice cube melting at 32 degrees or Newton's laws of motion. In this case places that have banned baiting should see a reduced prevalence of CWD every time. I'm not sure that's the case.

That’s what I’m gettin at. I’ll have to look again, but I saw somewhere a comparison of prairie states/provinces that showed the number of positive cases in areas with and without restrictions over a number of years. The difference was significant. Now obviously there are always other factors since it’s nature, but it showed patterns and correlation. Like db said, it’s impossible to prove science since all science is theory. Long story short, Fritz is being disingenuous again. Anything any NDGF scientist puts on paper can be blown off as nonsense since is hasn’t been “proven”.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Ok, they wrote the AFWA document with no intention of implementing it.

https://www.fishwildlife.org/applic...3/AFWA_Technical_Report_on_CWD_BMPs_FINAL.pdf

Page 33:

7 - Preventing Unnatural Concentrations of Cervids – Baiting and Feeding Best Management Practice:

• To reduce the risk of CWD transmission and establishment of CWD through unnatural concentrations of cervids, states and provinces should eliminate the baiting and feeding of all wild cervids using regulatory mechanisms such as jurisdictional bans. Alternative Management practices include:

• Where a jurisdictional ban is not possible, an alternative utilized by some agencies is to allow baiting and/or feeding of cervids in portions of CWD-positive states where the disease has not yet been detected. However, this practice may facilitate increasing the prevalence and distribution of CWD within the state due to the epidemiology of the disease, natural movements of cervids, and limitations associated with surveillance of free-ranging animals.

• In jurisdictions with no evidence of CWD, proactive strategies to decrease baiting and feeding will minimize future disease control challenges. These strategies may include outright bans as stated above, or aggressive education and outreach campaigns. Once baiting and feeding have been established and hunter attitudes are accepting of the practice, it may be difficult to reverse hunter attitudes even with increasing disease threat.

• States should provide protocols for alternative methodologies to traditional baited camera surveys for hunters and landowners who wish to survey deer populations on their properties.

 

[NPO_Aaron]

Geeze, people are still arguing the same stuff over and over and over and over about this all. I'm glad I've exited this conversation. (which I think I just reentered accidentally by making a smart ass comment).

 

[Allen]

Fritz,

Wishlists are also not in the ND Century Code.

 

[savage270]

Cannot prove or disprove science. db

Do you still consider gravity a theory?

 

[Kentucky Windage]

I just want to know. Is this the end goal? Just baiting? Is there something on the Stockman’s Association or Farm Bureau’s agenda for next session pertaining to game laws?

Ive been thinking about this for a day now. I wish WCT12 and fritz the ditch cougar would reply.

What I can come up with is this from a rancher perspective: Ranchers have hay yards. The location really doesn’t change much, no different from where a farmer stores grain. Intentional or not, can’t those hay yards and grain bin sites be considered “bait piles” in the game and fish’s eyes? Is an apple tree a bait station? Pretty much any location that has year in and year out food for deer can be looked at as baiting.

 

[slyfish77]

Do you still consider gravity a theory?

We don't need gravity when the earth is flat.

 

[db-2]

Not sure the apple falling to the ground is science, theory or a fact. db

 

[risingsun]

Not sure the apple falling to the ground is science, theory or a fact. db

It was Eve's fault. She tossed the apple.