House Bill 1151- Prohibiting baiting bans

[NPO_Aaron]

Wow dude, quite a stretch and an ugly thing to say considering I have a special needs son.

It's not ugly at all? All I did was state that you lumped a group dedicated to helping people with disabilities into "Bad apples".
I'm not sure what I said that was so bad? I merely brought up what you said about the people who are backing this, including us. If I misunderstood, thats on me. But you definitely didn't exclude us from your comment.
Like me or not, it doesn't matter.

If you want to remember something, remember this. I am not doing this for myself. I personally could care less if I can bait or not. I could just sit back and watch the show, but I know there are people the bans hit hard, and those people are now some of my best friends. I'm going to fight for them.

 

[bravo]

I think you read that wrong.

I did. My mistake.

 

[bravo]

It's not ugly at all? All I did was state that you lumped a group dedicated to helping people with disabilities into "Bad apples".
I'm not sure what I said that was so bad? I merely brought up what you said about the people who are backing this, including us. If I misunderstood, thats on me. But you definitely didn't exclude us from your comment.
Like me or not, it doesn't matter.

If you want to remember something, remember this. I am not doing this for myself. I personally could care less if I can bait or not. I could just sit back and watch the show, but I know there are people the bans hit hard, and those people are now some of my best friends. I'm going to fight for them.

Aaron my apologies. That’s twice I’ve misread your posts on here. No personal issues whatsoever. I’ll admit I’m at a work function and reading my phone sort of under the table. I understand your stance.

 

[NPO_Aaron]

Bickering aside, Bravo I guarantee we have more in common than we dont. I don't know a single thing about your son, and maybe you have things completely locked down, but if there is any way we can help you get your boy in the field we are more than happy to help out anyway we can.

 

[NPO_Aaron]

I'll tell you whose fault it is we are having miscommunications, that dang John Arman. Sorry, that was a cheap shot at Pike. Apparently to him everything is Johns fault

 

[bravo]

Bickering aside, Bravo I guarantee we have more in common than we dont. I don't know a single thing about your son, and maybe you have things completely locked down, but if there is any way we can help you get your boy in the field we are more than happy to help out anyway we can.

Completely agree and that said I appreciate the offer. Still a few years away from that though.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

What they have been doing in units with CWD is they up tags to kill more deer to rid the disease they hope. Wipe most of them out and start new crop of deer with hopefully no CWD. Same in other state's

Bingo. Sharpshooting deer or targeting areas for more licenses is bad. There are deer with bad genomes more susceptible to CWD and some deer that could be completely immune.

How does Game and Fish know which is which before they pull the trigger?

 

[Kurtr]

You cant bait in south dakota and never have been able to since i could remember. What is the difference in the rate of spread vs north dakota. I also dont think you can compare states to the east as their habitat is completely different than both Dakotas. I would like to see the study of spread rates in states that bait or dont bait. The wipe all the deer out and start over doesnt work they have tried that

 

[KDM]

You cant bait in south dakota and never have been able to since i could remember. What is the difference in the rate of spread vs north dakota. I also dont think you can compare states to the east as their habitat is completely different than both Dakotas. I would like to see the study of spread rates in states that bait or dont bait. The wipe all the deer out and start over doesnt work they have tried that

Wyoming has banned baiting for over 20 years and CWD is spreading by 1.1 million acres every year in that state according to their own info. CWD is still spreading in SD in spite of the bait ban. Perkins county in late 2021 was added to the number of counties in SD with CWD which now stands at 17 counties. And so what??? I think before we worry about the spread of CWD, we should FIRST SHOW IT'S A THREAT!! EHD is a documented threat to white tail populations as shown by a mountain of data and NOTHING is done about that. CWD studies all say might, maybe, possibly, and perhaps and I have yet to read a published paper that proves CWD is a significant mortality factor in white tails or that CWD can infect humans. EHD outbreaks are severe and devastating where hundreds if not thousands of deer carcasses can be found laying around and it's crickets as well as no action, but find a single case of CWD from a recently killed and apparently normal looking and acting deer and it's an all hands on deck full scale hullabaloo panic party where hunters somehow need to get slapped and whacked with the GnF ban hammer. I thought the GnF was supposed to be helping hunters. PFFT, silly me. I keep forgetting that it's 2023 now and politics trump everything else. Carry On!!

 

[Rowdie]

We need a plan to keep the deer away from the midgets. Oh, and feed them garlic, lots and lots of garlic.

 

[NDSportsman]

What they have been doing in units with CWD is they up tags to kill more deer to rid the disease they hope. Wipe most of them out and start new crop of deer with hopefully no CWD. Same in other state's

Which makes zero biological sense because CWD prions can stay in the soil for decades just like anthrax. Their claim to ban baiting because of disease is complete and utter BS to cover up their ethical agenda.

 

[Kurtr]

Wyoming has banned baiting for over 20 years and CWD is spreading by 1.1 million acres every year in that state according to their own info. CWD is still spreading in SD in spite of the bait ban. Perkins county in late 2021 was added to the number of counties in SD with CWD which now stands at 17 counties. And so what??? I think before we worry about the spread of CWD, we should FIRST SHOW IT'S A THREAT!! EHD is a documented threat to white tail populations as shown by a mountain of data and NOTHING is done about that. CWD studies all say might, maybe, possibly, and perhaps and I have yet to read a published paper that proves CWD is a significant mortality factor in white tails or that CWD can infect humans. EHD outbreaks are severe and devastating where hundreds if not thousands of deer carcasses can be found laying around and it's crickets as well as no action, but find a single case of CWD from a recently killed and apparently normal looking and acting deer and it's an all hands on deck full scale hullabaloo panic party where hunters somehow need to get slapped and whacked with the GnF ban hammer. I thought the GnF was supposed to be helping hunters. PFFT, silly me. I keep forgetting that it's 2023 now and politics trump everything else. Carry On!!

Thats exactly what i was getting at states that have not allowed baiting for years still see it spread. So I dont see how any one can say with a straight face that baiting is an actual issue or a determining factor in the spread. Its a small sample but i know for a fact where garlic salt licks were put out there were way less dead deer from ehd than areas with in a few miles. The gfp down here even admitted to it but wont put out the blocks or do anything. You would think they would be throwing them out of planes but we sit on out thumbs worrying about cwd.

 

[guywhofishes]

Guys guys guys. NDGF is not necessarily worried about baiting being the spreader of CWD. If you read the regulations carefully it's obvious that NDGF is worried about hunting big game over bait in particular. THAT's the real threat to the resource they're sworn to protect.

So please - let's stick to the regulations as written as we debate this.

 

[wct12]

You do have skin in the game, you laid it out clearly in your YouTube video and your show uses bait to get bucks on camera. Not faulting you one but for that. It actually almost only benefits landowners like yourself and I who can bait since the average Joe is usually stuck to public land where it’s not legal, or on someone else’s property where baiting would need to take place regularly in order to work. And how many youth, veteran, or disabled hunters are you taking out since you care about them so much. Why haven’t you put out any information from the other side that shows that CWD has been shown to spread via saliva (here)? Seems relevant unless you are just looking to push an agenda. A purely science and data based approach would actually be to ban all artificial baiting and food plots (against that as well) in order to reduce the risk of all disease, wouldnt it? They obviously shouldn’t and haven’t done that. We can agree that habitat is more important. But as far as landowner relations go, do you ever give the average Joe permission? If not, how do we fix that?

John I’m not against baiting, but I am against bills of dubious origin making game regulations instead of appointed agencies.

"Bills of Dubious origin making game regulations instead of appointed agencies"? What about the 2 previous times that the game and fish department has tried to pass a baiting ban through the legislature and it was voted down because "We the People" stood up, voiced our concerns and there was no data provided on the game and fishes behalf that proved beyond reasonable doubt a baiting ban would lower/limit TB. There is a reason this was written into proclamation rather than law through the legislature because they can not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that banning baiting will in fact lower/slow the spread of CWD in a natural deer herd.

The Head of the Game and fish is an appointed position, not an elected position. If the Game and Fish has the power to go against what the people of North Dakota want without the science needed to back it up, that is a scary path also, especially since "We the People" have no say over it. Is that Hamstringing the game and fish, or just holding them accountable the only way we can, because when they can't get something written into law they just write it in to the proclamation?

 

[wct12]

What they have been doing in units with CWD is they up tags to kill more deer to rid the disease they hope. Wipe most of them out and start new crop of deer with hopefully no CWD. Same in other state's

Except that's not what happening. As the baiting ban increases in time in places, so have the positives showing that the baiting ban hasn't done anything to slow the spread.

If you want to talk about wiping out a deer herd and starting with a new healthy herd, where is the accountability for the Game and Fish Department from when they eradicated a herd of 62?, if I remember correctly, deer near Williston. All of which were completely healthy deer. Not one of them tested positive for CWD, not a single one. In a state where they claim 1 possible death due to a starving deer being found dead being attributed to CWD, the Game and Fish has effectively had a much more severely negative effect in 1 instance on a deer population then CWD has in its 12+ years of being in our state.

 

[wct12]

I had a hard time with the wording as well, however, I contacted some of our representatives and clarified that if in the case new evidence, can it be changed, and they assured me yes.
What else can we do besides take the issue higher. The public is treated like children and disregarded, there needed to be a way to make our voices heard. Right now it's our issue, and for some people it doesn't have any bearing on their lives. But what happens when the next thing affects you? Then you try and plead your case to deaf ears. It's not right.

Absolutely agree with this. In my opinion, and let this be known it is an opinion... The reason the Game and Fish is using the Unit by Unit approach to this versus the statewide ban is try to limit the amount of negative blow back that is received. There are a lot of people staying neutral on this bill currently because they hunt in a unit that hasn't had hunting over bait banned, but now is the time for them to stand up and get this in check. If you think that with in 7-10 years the Game and Fishes unit by unit approach won't encompass the entire state, I would bet a pretty good chunk of money against them saying they are wrong.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I'm thinking I'm going to have to switch to baiting, and even perhaps an off trail permit so I can get my blind into the field. The last time I walked and it got dark on me it cost me $4000+ for new front teeth.

The doctor limits me to 20 lb so now I shoot a crossbow. My brother in law is 84 years old and a table saw tore up his hand last year. The Game and Fish requires a doctor sign and justify the application. My brother in laws doctor will not do it. The Game and Fish leaves some at the mercy of bunny hugging doctors.

 

[Obi-Wan]

The G&F could flatten the curve in 2 weeks and slow the spread of CWD if they only implemented the following

Require all deer to stay at least 6' apart
Require all deer to wear masks

After the CWD curve is flattened they could

Require all deer to be vaccinated, boosted, double boosted, or even triple boosted

According to Brandon deer who are vaccinated will not catch CWD
Also according to Brandon deer who are vaccinated can not spread CWD

 

[db-2]

Plan on writing to committee reviewing this. What would i highlight to be for this bill and what are the highlights to keep the ban on?
Will help me with writing this letter to the committee and those that represent my area. db

Prairie:
Find a different doctor. For me a torn rotary cup gave me 10 years now. I have seen, right or wrong, the slip signed due to age.

 

[Traxion]

The fascinating part of all this to me is just the simple paradigm of being able to bait or not to bait. It’s a lot like the open trespass in ND versus closed trespass in SD. I’ve grown up with the laws I know and am not comfortable walking on unposted land nor do I want to bait. It’s just ingrained in me not too, but i see and don’t fault those who see it the opposite. I grew up a mile from the border between the two states yet the outdoor views on issues like this are like two different countries. Yet we’re barely separated by an invisible line. Cultural differences in simple things like this are very interesting.

I haven’t followed the sell of G&F but CWD won’t be impacted by baiting. There’s one section down here with no bait but good food sources. There are a 1000 deer there. You can’t keep wild critters apart.