Problems with inconsistency

[Lungdeflator]

Hey guys, first let me preface by saying I don't know a lot about rifles. I have never had a problem like this and don't know what to look for.

The rifle in question is a Remington 700 CDL in 25-06 with a Vortex Viper scope, both about 4 years old. I'm shooting 117gr Hornady Suprformance at 100 yards. So before heading over to MN for the rifle season, I dusted off the rifle and ran a box of shells through it. I was without a solid bench rest or anything so got it as dialed in as I could, but with some inconsistent shots mixed in that I blamed on myself and lack of recent shooting.
Fast forward to after I shot a buck and had some inconsistent shooting during that situation. I ran another box of shells through it. This time with a solid bench rest and inconsistent shooting and even worse groupings, some shots missing the paper entirely. So while I might be a little bit of the problem still, I don't think I am that bad, especially with a solid rest.
Not knowing anything about it, I brought it into Minot Scheels when I got back and they rechecked the scope and checked the torque on the rings and bases. They didn't see anything obvious, so they took the scope off and are going to send the scope and remington back to the companies for them to look at. Said turn around time is usually 6-8 weeks.

Any thoughts as to what is going on? This is a lightly used rifle I bought brand new with a total of maybe 7-8 boxes of shells through it.

 

[fish-r-man]

I have a savage axis 2 in 25-06 and had a problem similar to this. What I ended up do is was try a couple different loads/bullets to try and find one that shot well. Another question is if the barrel was broken in properly? Just my 2 cents.

 

[Downrigger]

Could be the bullets you are shooting through but I'm surprised they would spray off the paper.

With a solid bench rest did you have the barrel resting on something or just the stock?

We're you adjusting the scope often in between shots?

I don't know much about Remington rifles but is the barrel free floated, bedded, etc?
The main gun guys on here might have some more comments on things to check on the firearm that could be loose.

 

[SupressYourself]

While I agree that guns tend to like a particular load, and you should try a few, I don't think that would create the wild inconsistencies (missing the paper) that you reported.​

Most likely the scope, rings, or bases. I would try it with a known-good scope.

The other thing to check is that the action screws are properly torqued and the barrel is free-floating. It was not on the Rem 700 I bought 2 years ago. I had to sand it quite a bit to get it to float with my suppressor on. Inconsistent pressure on the barrel causes inconsistency.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Two things come to my mind. Even with the few rounds you have through it copper in the bore could be your problem. The other possibility is a small ding in your crown. It could be nearly imperceptible without magnification. However a very small dent will allow gas escape on one side before the other destabilizing the bullet. I first became aware of this problem when a friend and I squirrel hunted with 50 cal Hawkens. His had very poor accuracy while mine pulled of head shots consistently. We were shooting patched roundballs. He tried the plastic patches and got good accuracy. His crown would blow the plastic patch without affecting the flight of the round ball. His bore was also inconsistent being tighter in the last four inches. We cut off four inches and recrowned. After that it shot fine with patched roundball.

 

[bigv]

I had a 25.06 and used to shoot the same round. 117g Superperformance. That round did not shoot well. I did not like it and could never get it consistent. Most reviews of load says the same. Quite honestly, it may be too fast. Fast rounds often do not pattern well. But I've never had it "off" paper before.

 

[Rowdie]

One time we had a gun we couldn't site in and the barrel was loose.

 

[Kurtr]

While I agree that guns tend to like a particular load, and you should try a few, I don't think that would create the wild inconsistencies (missing the paper) that you reported.​

Most likely the scope, rings, or bases. I would try it with a known-good scope.

The other thing to check is that the action screws are properly torqued and the barrel is free-floating. It was not on the Rem 700 I bought 2 years ago. I had to sand it quite a bit to get it to float with my suppressor on. Inconsistent pressure on the barrel causes inconsistency.

I agree with the action screws or bbl is heating up you are then touching the stock and it is winging shots all around.

 

[Lungdeflator]

Thanks guys. The rest I had it in had a felt pad in the front that the stock was resting on, nothing else. I'm hoping to get a decent report from Remington or Vortex if they find an issue. I wanted to try a different round in it, but Suprformance was all Scheels had left. Cabelas in EGF didn't have much better selection either. If they come back saying nothing is wrong, I'll look at the stuff you guys mentioned above.

 

[Captain Ahab]

http://www.federalpremium.com/ammun...ital-shok-sierra-gameking-boat-tail-sp/p2506c


This is the one that shoots really well out of my 25-06. Might be worth a shot.

 

[Mort]

Sighting a rifle can be frustrating. Some people are picky about groupings. I sighted in my 243 and 270 this sunday and the 243 with 100 gr SP wincherster had a tighter group over the 270, so the 243 is the 'go to' gun this weekend and the 270 is along for back up. I shoot 130gr SP in the 270, same brand winchester.

In OP case, finding the culprit is gonna be a pain.

 

[sloppy]

I shoot Winchester ballistic silvertip 115 gr through my Remington CDL...another season passes with just one shot.

 

[Kurtr]

I have loaded those 117 sgk for a couple different 25-06 and they all loved them

 

[Bed Wetter]

“Inconsistency is where credibility goes to die.”

- Me

 

[jtillman]

Let's assume the rifle, being of good quality (700 CDL's normally are) should group and pattern better than your experiencing.....if it were me, I would start with:

1. Confirm the scope base / mounts / rings, etc. are all rock solid.
2. Confirm action screws are not loose.
3. Shoot again.

If you still have issues....throw another scope on that you know works (if you don't have one, borrow one)....rinse & repeat.

You should be able to get at least fist size groups with the average 700 & decent scope. If you do that, and you still have spraying issues, then in my opinion it is something funky going on with the rifle (the ding in the crown is a great example). If your groups tighten up with the second scope....then you know you have a scope problem.

You can play with different ammo, but unless the twist rate of the barrel & bullet weight aren't compatible (the 117gr should be OK), I really don't see ammo as being the main culprit.

--Good Luck--

 

[Walleye_Chaser]

Another thing to add that I've seen happen. If it's a free float barrel make sure to not rest the barrel on the rest. Can cause this issue. Probably not the issue but something I could see me not pay attention to.

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Was your barrel clean?
Try another brand and/or grain of bullet.
When the barrels get dirty your pattern will expand. I know some people that have never cleaned their rifle barrels.

 

[wby257]

My advise would have been to have someone else shoot the rifle. Question is our you a good enough shot capable of say a one inch group. If you shoot another rifle and you shoot tiny little groups maybe its the gun. I have shot a 25-06 for over 30 yrs and am not bothered by recoil. Maybe its you and your fliching and dont even know it.

There our so many factors and everything is a guess on our part. So only you knows whats going on.

personally I would have never let them send in the rifle or scope. I would have someone else try shooting it first.

I will tell you what I tell my kids never take your eye out of the scope. Watch the bullet hit the target weather it a animal or paper. If you keep your eye in the scope you will shoot real good. NO PEAKING OVER THE SCOPE

 

[PrairieGhost]

Another thing to add that I've seen happen. If it's a free float barrel make sure to not rest the barrel on the rest. Can cause this issue. Probably not the issue but something I could see me not pay attention to.

Good point. Especially with light barrels I have experienced different points of impact depending on if I set my bipod on sod, or hard ground, or rocks. Some light barrels are worse when free-floated. With a light 300 Win Mag I had a few years ago groups opened when free-floayed. I used business cards between forend and barrel. Groups went from 2.5 inches to 3/8 inch with four business cards. I glass bed it with the cards in place then removed them. That was 1990 and it still shoots well. I passed it to my oldest son, and now the grandson has it.

 

[Petras]

are your groups just all over? or is there a pattern to the grouping? I guess what I mean is do they get consistenly worse with each shot but off in the same general direction... (Think nuts on with first shot, high and right next shot, further high and right next shot etc....)