Well this is going to get interesting

[johnr]

We just need to give more money for their plight.

 

[dean nelson]

That is essentially the contention. It's not that something slipped through the cracks so to speak it may be that it was supposed to not exist in the first place. When the state and/or feds approve these thing commonly they only operate on recommendations. The problem is there is nothing there, no notes, observations, or anything to even suggest that required work was done. If the plan all along was to pay someone to find nothing then give them future work and recommendations to find noting for another project or for another company later on its easy to see how this could happen. I'm not saying something shady did happen but there is something missing along with an admitted conflict of interest and it's important to find out why. The state doesn't have the best record of holding companies accountable for their mistakes.- - - Updated - - -

This is turning in to a huge mess now. So it just came out in the Bismarck Tribune that supposedly this pipeline was supposed to run north of Bismarck but was rejected because the corp of engineers stated it was too close to the municipal water supplies . It is hard to tell if this article is just being used to stir up some dust because it does state that the pipeline would have had to been 11 miles longer with the Bismarck route so who knows.http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...l&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-shareWow I thought that part was long over with. If that is in fact true and it is in writing from a Corps report, that could be big in a courtroom.

How would that be big news? Only to a jaded mind looking for any straw to grab at! Big difference having bring in water temporarily for 100,000 plus people and Lord knows how many businesses then 875 people.

 

[BDub]

We just need to give more money for their plight.

Pretty sure they don't want jobs.

 

[Bacon]

They should have squashed this shit when there was only a few people there. Now they might have problems. They are holding up a legal construction project. What is wrong with people. Tell them to get out or throw them in jail.

 

[701FishSlayer]

There actually is a little more to this. Dapl in the required impact study didn't even pretend to have met the states requirement as far as the cultural impact study is concerned. (Possible reason for the grave sites talk) This isn't just a native thing, it's what keeps them from digging up any graveyards anywhere as well as other important historical sites. It's required to get approval and must be brought through the state historical society. For some reason, take your pick, DAPL was the one contractor to get a free pass on this one. It reeks of shady pool. Since someone mentioned treaties though it's funny that the US military goes to war when treaties are broken overseas and people cheer it on yet the same folks are pissed when we even think of upholding the ones that are left here. I thought and still kinda do think this protest has a dumb as hell aspect to it but looks like some folks at the state level are getting nervous about getting caught. I hope no one who is bitching about this protest ever complains when companies spill in creeks that run to the lake, meanwhile say nothing when the state lets them out of their fines because it looks like free passes to companies is exactly what's going on here. God forbid the state makes these companies follow the law once in awhile. If DAPL started without meeting the law they need to get the boot and a stand-up outfit can get the job for a change.

Because the pipeline qualifies as a utility (despite being privately owned and for-profit), the Army Corps of Engineers was able to certify it without performing an environmental impact statement, as all utilities projects qualify as "minimal impact." These projects are subject to environmental assessments every five years.

 

[Kurtr]

There had to be something like that the over site on these things crossing 4 states is huge. That would be to many people to pay off and keep quiet

 

[RustyTackleBox]

and here I am working, when I could be like them and go camping... #$%^&>

 

[johnr]

Pretty sure they don't want jobs.

Haha, I didn't mention jobs, just more of our tax money, and fire water

 

[Brian Renville]

There had to be something like that the over site on these things crossing 4 states is huge. That would be to many people to pay off and keep quiet

That's kind of the contention here, the SHSND had one job and it certainly appears that they didn't do it. The reason they could let it slip by is when they give their report to the PSC there is no one at the PSC that(probably) would or could claim they know more about the sort of thing that the SHSND does than the folks sending the approval to them. I'm not talking about water rights or Natives or anything like that. That shouldn't need to be repeated but it's pretty obvious certain people have that first impression of "What the hell are those damn Indians whining about now?" stuck in their heads. They wont admit it because that makes them sound like an asshole but it's there. I'll admit when I first saw protesting on the news I felt "what is this stupid shit goin' on?" I have no problem admitting it. I will say though without the protest the people who know about this stuff wouldn't have even looked at it. Anyway, the main issue here is about integrity of the contributors and the one who appears to be the skunk here is the SHSND who's "report" said they found nothing. Anyone who has been hunting with a local old timer knows you can't drive in the country for ten minutes in any direction without finding something of historical significance. Now significant to who? If there is a homestead of a notable Dakotan it's important to someone. Lets say there was notable ranch or an forgotten about rodeo grounds where state or national champions rode, the cowboy hall of fame would want to make note of that, it's required to make an effort to put that in the study. If a battle took place it needs to be noted in the study. If a lutheran church once stood 80+ years ago with a possible cemetery, that needs to be noted. Distance to homesteads with possible german iron crosses needs to be noted, so if accidently stumbled upon they can be handed over to the proper historical entity or family. Now 95+% of these things would not be cause for rejection or even alteration of the path of a pipeline or any other construction the law just says it needs to be noted in case a local museum or university or cowboy hall of fame whatever it may be can archive the history to prevent loss. Something will alway be destroyed that is important to someone whatever it's family related, religious, or just holds a fond memory but the law is there to make a good attempt to not miss those things. We know there are things near enough to the planned path that they should have been noted in the study, so why the did the SHSND say there is nothing there? Any of us that grew up in a small town or went hunting with some old timers know that is impossible ove any distance in this state. Go figure I guess. We do know that half of the SHSND's budget is contributed by energy companies so take that for what it's worth. I'm not sure if you read the above note I posted by Dr. Isern but he's someone who does know more than me about this, I'm just some schlub who went to college for history at one time and got hinted to look at the study. Like I said before I have no problem with pipelines they are the best and safest option to get done what we need done. The contention here though is if someone like the SHSND is giving false but favorable findings on things that is a big big problem. The law should have been followed and it appears it wasn't, don't like the law work to get it changed but while it is there it should be followed and those in charge should be taken to task about doing so. I'm hearing a lot of "it was approved by the government that means everything has to be on the up and up." That almost sounds like....ISH......Democrats

 

[WormWiggler]

Hope the injuns and hippies down get tired of the pipeliners and start yipping about all the boats upriver contaminating the place. #buttcheesematters

 

[Kurtr]

That's kind of the contention here, the SHSND had one job and it certainly appears that they didn't do it. The reason they could let it slip by is when they give their report to the PSC there is no one at the PSC that(probably) would or could claim they know more about the sort of thing that the SHSND does than the folks sending the approval to them. I'm not talking about water rights or Natives or anything like that. That shouldn't need to be repeated but it's pretty obvious certain people have that first impression of "What the hell are those damn Indians whining about now?" stuck in their heads. They wont admit it because that makes them sound like an asshole but it's there. I'll admit when I first saw protesting on the news I felt "what is this stupid shit goin' on?" I have no problem admitting it. I will say though without the protest the people who know about this stuff wouldn't have even looked at it. Anyway, the main issue here is about integrity of the contributors and the one who appears to be the skunk here is the SHSND who's "report" said they found nothing. Anyone who has been hunting with a local old timer knows you can't drive in the country for ten minutes in any direction without finding something of historical significance. Now significant to who? If there is a homestead of a notable Dakotan it's important to someone. Lets say there was notable ranch or an forgotten about rodeo grounds where state or national champions rode, the cowboy hall of fame would want to make note of that, it's required to make an effort to put that in the study. If a battle took place it needs to be noted in the study. If a lutheran church once stood 80+ years ago with a possible cemetery, that needs to be noted. Distance to homesteads with possible german iron crosses needs to be noted, so if accidently stumbled upon they can be handed over to the proper historical entity or family. Now 95+% of these things would not be cause for rejection or even alteration of the path of a pipeline or any other construction the law just says it needs to be noted in case a local museum or university or cowboy hall of fame whatever it may be can archive the history to prevent loss. Something will alway be destroyed that is important to someone whatever it's family related, religious, or just holds a fond memory but the law is there to make a good attempt to not miss those things. We know there are things near enough to the planned path that they should have been noted in the study, so why the did the SHSND say there is nothing there? Any of us that grew up in a small town or went hunting with some old timers know that is impossible ove any distance in this state. Go figure I guess. We do know that half of the SHSND's budget is contributed by energy companies so take that for what it's worth. I'm not sure if you read the above note I posted by Dr. Isern but he's someone who does know more than me about this, I'm just some schlub who went to college for history at one time and got hinted to look at the study. Like I said before I have no problem with pipelines they are the best and safest option to get done what we need done. The contention here though is if someone like the SHSND is giving false but favorable findings on things that is a big big problem. The law should have been followed and it appears it wasn't, don't like the law work to get it changed but while it is there it should be followed and those in charge should be taken to task about doing so. I'm hearing a lot of "it was approved by the government that means everything has to be on the up and up." That almost sounds like....ISH......Democrats

But do there findings even matter if this is utility and considered low impact? Even if it does the protests are not about those issues.

 

[campcook]

Oh for Christ's sake. Does anyone ever realize how many graves of pioneers, natives and otherearly inhabitants of this land we walk on every day? When I die, cremate the carcass and spreadthe ashes under my deer stand. If somefuture hunter feels the need to piss out of the stand, have at it. I won’t care.

 

[Bed Wetter]

Back in my day the authorities would show up with fire hoses, everybody would get a good washing, and go home.

I'm just impressed they had hoses back then. In fact, I'm surprised they had protesters back then. Pretty sure if you didn't work you just up and died.

- - - Updated - - -

Word is there are LOTS of incidents not being reported. Protesters running off private security, death threats to individuals and their families, ransacking of a nearby farmstead. Apparently the media isn't reporting the facts. *THIS IS MY SHOCKED FACE*

- - - Updated - - -

 

[dean nelson]

I'm just impressed they had hoses back then. In fact, I'm surprised they had protesters back then. Pretty sure if you didn't work you just up and died.

- - - Updated - - -

Word is there are LOTS of incidents not being reported. Protesters running off private security, death threats to individuals and their families, ransacking of a nearby farmstead. Apparently the media isn't reporting the facts. *THIS IS MY SHOCKED FACE*

- - - Updated - - -

Lot of talk of them taking pics of the officers faces, names and badge numbers and then tracking them back to their homes and then showing up and or calling to intimidate them! Make no mistake boys this is Ferguson just with an environmental twist thus the reason why I started this thread because it's direction seemed clear from day one. I just hope they know if they ever fuck with one of those officers or their families we won't stand by idly like they did in Ferguson! This is a group of people that will push back with a force they don't want to play with! I'm one of the biggest supporters of that tribe on this website but can say without a shadow of a doubt that if they fuck with one of those officers or their families I will take that the same as them fucking with me and I will have to return the favor!!! Protesting is cool and its own thing but doing that.....messing with a man's family is way, way, WAAAAAY beyond not cool and a total bitch move!

 

[Brian Renville]

But do there findings even matter if this is utility and considered low impact? Even if it does the protests are not about those issues.

That could be. If so keep on digging. Sounds like there is reason enough that a court has them held up now. The first I have heard of that is when 701 mentioned it above. He said they could do it without the impact statement. If so I now wonder why they did do the statement. It was done just part of it didn't make sense. Plot sure has thickened thats for sure.

 

[dean nelson]

Sorry about that last post but that crap just pisses me off to a level that is not a place I want to be. I'm not a cop backer to much of any real level but I also know that most of the ones we have around here are better people then I will ever be and messing with them like is being down elsewhere is something I can't and won't stomach here.

 

[Rowdie]

Where or how are you hearing about people contacting officers at their homes?

 

[Brian Renville]

I had heard some about it on the "comments" on the Bismarck trib. They are as about intelligent as you can expect. I haven't heard any credible report of it yet just some talk like Dean said. One thing that did happen though was some stomping and threatening to burn the flag, they got their asses handed to them by tribal members real quick. Military is honored at every opportunity on the res so that sort of shit just doesn't fly.

 

[dust in the wind]

there's a lot of herp and derp in the comments on facebook (from both sides) with the articles posted regarding this issue. There were a few people that posted screen shots of comments by some (supposedly protesters) that were threatening to kill the cops.

 

[Brian Renville]

Ya lotta internet tough guys. Kicking ass from grandmas basement.