CWD in 4B

[Bfishn]

I wonder how many thousands and thousands of infected deer have been eatin in Wisconsin without incident. Playing the what if game leads to dumb laws and policy changes

"Without Indecent"....Have you met people from WI? Maybe the mutation to humans results in "Sconi-ism"

 

[fj40]

This is all very interesting, however, I will be making deer sausage. Gotta die from something.

 

[guywhofishes]

I predict a statewide ban on baiting will be announced in coming months

 

[Mort]

I predict a statewide ban on baiting will be announced in coming months

Na...they will just ban deer hunting all together and watch the deer population 'take care of itself' type approach. smh

 

[Kurtr]

cwd was found in mule deer in the 60's and now its a big deal. almost as big of a deal as the green movement . $$$$$$$$

 

[luvcatchingbass]

So basically what you're doing is just putting your hands over your eyes and saying that you're not paying any attention to the fact that the data is progressively coming in more and more pointing to the fact that in all likelihood it can pass to humans! Yes or no do the scientist say there is a very real chance it can pass to humans... Like I said yes or no? Because all I ever said in my original post was there's a very real chance that it does not need to mutate to become a human pathogen it may very well already be there and if you don't want to admit that then you're just choosing not to see the reality of the situation! There is a very good reason why all the agencies involved have radically changed their verbage on how susceptible people maybe in the safety of eating the meat of these deer and that is just a flat-out fact!

Is more data coming in probably, but still I would like to see a full documented case that is not full of words such as "probably, could be, we think, etc". The couple quotes you had earlier sure didn't grab my goat to panic and run as those seem to show theories more than anything and a comment about in the future we possibly will see it develop in humans is just like me saying I will possibly hit a deer on my drive home tonight. I am just not convinced in anything I have read besides the fact that there are a lot of theories floating around. Show me a case study of a monkey (beings that has been mentioned) or a human with some details on diagnosis, disease progression, treatment attempts, and outcomes to prove these "facts". If the "experts" keep changing their verbage then that tells me that there is still a lot they do not have answers for which includes the potential ways the disease can spread. In my mind it is hard to head off a problem when you don't know the problem's travel route, that is guessing which is a cousin to hypothesis and theory in my book.

 

[KDM]

So basically what you're doing is just putting your hands over your eyes and saying that you're not paying any attention to the fact that the data is progressively coming in more and more pointing to the fact that in all likelihood it can pass to humans! Yes or no do the scientist say there is a very real chance it can pass to humans... Like I said yes or no? Because all I ever said in my original post was there's a very real chance that it does not need to mutate to become a human pathogen it may very well already be there and if you don't want to admit that then you're just choosing not to see the reality of the situation! There is a very good reason why all the agencies involved have radically changed their verbage on how susceptible people maybe in the safety of eating the meat of these deer and that is just a flat-out fact!

Quite the contrary Dean. I'm keeping my eyes WIDE OPEN to all possibilities. What I'm NOT seeing is hard data to support any claim CWD is a threat. Where is this progressive data? I haven't seen any recently published research in quite some time. Conversely, what I am seeing is scare tactics, political posturing, and maybe's/might's/possibly's/could's/etc. You even state in you last sentence that people MAYBE susceptible, not that they ARE susceptible. Yes it is a fact that the agencies have changed their verbage. However, it IS NOT A FACT that people are susceptible to CWD. There is a big difference between the two.

 

[dean nelson]

Quite the contrary Dean. I'm keeping my eyes WIDE OPEN to all possibilities. What I'm NOT seeing is hard data to support any claim CWD is a threat. Where is this progressive data? I haven't seen any recently published research in quite some time. Conversely, what I am seeing is scare tactics, political posturing, and maybe's/might's/possibly's/could's/etc. You even state in you last sentence that people MAYBE susceptible, not that they ARE susceptible. Yes it is a fact that the agencies have changed their verbage. However, it IS NOT A FACT that people are susceptible to CWD. There is a big difference between the two.

I think your missing my point and that was simply that there are ever increasing amounts of data that indicate that this condition is transferable to humans. The only thing I was commenting on in my original post was simply that if the data keeps heading the way it's heading it will not take some sort of mutation for the prions to morph into something that could take out a human instead its quite likely they are already there.

When it comes to CWD I've ened up through sheer dumb luck getting a front row seat on it and it's spread since i was a kid. The area in Colorado where I've spent large amounts of time working, hunting and fishing is literally just over the hill from where this all began. Then add in I was spending large amounts of time in central WI the summer when they first found it there and went on there ridiculously ill-conceived eradication plan of all the deer in the area. And even here the unit I hunt is also the exact same area were CWD was first found in the state and only about 20 miles from where I do most of my hunting. And having seen these areas and their progression over a long period of time including the Colorado area that I've been actively hunting since the early 90s I can tell you that ironically almost all of these areas have higher big game populations of deer elk and moose then when I first hunted them. I fully agree with you US fish and wildlife service the DNR and or own Game and Fish Department and pretty much anyone else that has to do with Wildlife Resource Management tends to overreact highly on this subject and because of that we now have stories all over the major media of zombie deer which isn't even remotely bombastic.::: Now that the info is coming back in that the meat may also quite possibly be bad that adds a whole new dimension to it because before that the only real impact I could ever come to after doing all the math was that you could have a definite decrease in Trophy Bucks since they just wouldn't live long enough to get big. overall a young deer population will still continue on just fine they just won't get as old as they used to. Now if the Deer do in fact become inedible that obviously is going to throw big wrench in the whole system because positive rates in some of the core areas are extremely high. So once again my whole point for the original post was not to disagree with you on the overreaction aspect that these Wildlife departments have done it was simply to point out that there's strong evidence starting to come in that this disease does not need to morph to become a serious problems it may well be there now. Some of the worst areas are in the 40% range and needless to say that's going to cause huge problems if it is in fact transmissible. But one thing I do know for a fact is if the rate of which it takes out a heard stays the same as I've seen it especially down in Colorado the one thing that is abundantly clear is this is not a problem any person on this thread is likely to ever see any major real world repercussions from this in their lifetime other than the overzealous application of rediculus rules from organizations that now have become far too similar to politicians then game managers!

 

[Trip McNeely]

Hold up Dean...... so from what Ive gathered here you were near ground zero for this CWD shit when it all started....... then you were just strolling through the neighborhood in wisconsin as it was detected there..... now you just happen to be in or near the hot zones firing up in ND? ...... what the shit Dean? Are you spreading this shit? As it stands there is more factual proof that you yourself are spreading CWD than any science proving how it us actually spread..... prion piss.... its gotta be.... whenever Dean steps out to take a piss... BAM prions shot all over the ground!

 

[WLYHNTR]

I think your missing my point and that was simply that there are ever increasing amounts of data that indicate that this condition is transferable to humans. The only thing I was commenting on in my original post was simply that if the data keeps heading the way it's heading it will not take some sort of mutation for the prions to morph into something that could take out a human instead its quite likely they are already there.

When it comes to CWD I've ened up through sheer dumb luck getting a front row seat on it and it's spread since i was a kid. The area in Colorado where I've spent large amounts of time working, hunting and fishing is literally just over the hill from where this all began. Then add in I was spending large amounts of time in central WI the summer when they first found it there and went on there ridiculously ill-conceived eradication plan of all the deer in the area. And even here the unit I hunt is also the exact same area were CWD was first found in the state and only about 20 miles from where I do most of my hunting. And having seen these areas and their progression over a long period of time including the Colorado area that I've been actively hunting since the early 90s I can tell you that ironically almost all of these areas have higher big game populations of deer elk and moose then when I first hunted them. I fully agree with you US fish and wildlife service the DNR and or own Game and Fish Department and pretty much anyone else that has to do with Wildlife Resource Management tends to overreact highly on this subject and because of that we now have stories all over the major media of zombie deer which isn't even remotely bombastic.::: Now that the info is coming back in that the meat may also quite possibly be bad that adds a whole new dimension to it because before that the only real impact I could ever come to after doing all the math was that you could have a definite decrease in Trophy Bucks since they just wouldn't live long enough to get big. overall a young deer population will still continue on just fine they just won't get as old as they used to. Now if the Deer do in fact become inedible that obviously is going to throw big wrench in the whole system because positive rates in some of the core areas are extremely high. So once again my whole point for the original post was not to disagree with you on the overreaction aspect that these Wildlife departments have done it was simply to point out that there's strong evidence starting to come in that this disease does not need to morph to become a serious problems it may well be there now. Some of the worst areas are in the 40% range and needless to say that's going to cause huge problems if it is in fact transmissible. But one thing I do know for a fact is if the rate of which it takes out a heard stays the same as I've seen it especially down in Colorado the one thing that is abundantly clear is this is not a problem any person on this thread is likely to ever see any major real world repercussions from this in their lifetime other than the overzealous application of rediculus rules from organizations that now have become far too similar to politicians then game managers!

Dean Nelson spread the CWD, you heard it here first.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Dean Nelson submitted:

Michael Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota stated that “it is probable that human cases of chronic wasting disease associated with consumption with contaminated meat will be documented in the years ahead,” going on to add, “It’s possible the number of human cases will be substantial and will not be isolated events​

Michael Osterholm became famous when he testified in front of the Minnesota Legislature and said, "zombie deer disease." He was seeking funds through a Legislative Bill from the Minnesota State General Fund for $1.8 million. To shake down the taxpayer for that kind of money he used "crisis."

Some of the articles out there on the web say the U of M want the money to find a live animal test. Hmm. There are an awful lot of deer out there in the wild. Can you get a visual....Marlin Perkins saying, "while Jim is wrestling the unwilling deer, I'll wait until he subdues it before moving in to perform the test."

 

[Wags2.0]

Dean Nelson submitted:



Michael Osterholm became famous when he testified in front of the Minnesota Legislature and said, "zombie deer disease." He was seeking funds through a Legislative Bill from the Minnesota State General Fund for $1.8 million. To shake down the taxpayer for that kind of money he used "crisis."

Some of the articles out there on the web say the U of M want the money to find a live animal test. Hmm. There are an awful lot of deer out there in the wild. Can you get a visual....Marlin Perkins saying, "while Jim is wrestling the unwilling deer, I'll wait until he subdues it before moving in to perform the test."

Don’t get too cocky, elk rancher. We haven’t gotten to your ilk yet. No one is safe anymore

 

[dean nelson]

Hold up Dean...... so from what Ive gathered here you were near ground zero for this CWD shit when it all started....... then you were just strolling through the neighborhood in wisconsin as it was detected there..... now you just happen to be in or near the hot zones firing up in ND? ...... what the shit Dean? Are you spreading this shit? As it stands there is more factual proof that you yourself are spreading CWD than any science proving how it us actually spread..... prion piss.... its gotta be.... whenever Dean steps out to take a piss... BAM prions shot all over the ground!

Yeah I was kind of chuckling on that too! Although I'm never at Ground Zero it's more like if CWD was a herd of elk I'm the satellite bull. Never fully in the game just close enough to see whats going on from the side!

- - - Updated - - -

Don’t get too cocky, elk rancher. We haven’t gotten to your ilk yet. No one is safe anymore

Well especially when you consider this Research Center where this all got it's start is high fenced operation not to mention the definitive link between a Fair number of the outbreaks being directly traced back to high fenced operations. So I would say yeah best not to push to far down the road.

 

[KDM]

I think your missing my point and that was simply that there are ever increasing amounts of data that indicate that this condition is transferable to humans. The only thing I was commenting on in my original post was simply that if the data keeps heading the way it's heading it will not take some sort of mutation for the prions to morph into something that could take out a human instead its quite likely they are already there.

When it comes to CWD I've ened up through sheer dumb luck getting a front row seat on it and it's spread since i was a kid. The area in Colorado where I've spent large amounts of time working, hunting and fishing is literally just over the hill from where this all began. Then add in I was spending large amounts of time in central WI the summer when they first found it there and went on there ridiculously ill-conceived eradication plan of all the deer in the area. And even here the unit I hunt is also the exact same area were CWD was first found in the state and only about 20 miles from where I do most of my hunting. And having seen these areas and their progression over a long period of time including the Colorado area that I've been actively hunting since the early 90s I can tell you that ironically almost all of these areas have higher big game populations of deer elk and moose then when I first hunted them. I fully agree with you US fish and wildlife service the DNR and or own Game and Fish Department and pretty much anyone else that has to do with Wildlife Resource Management tends to overreact highly on this subject and because of that we now have stories all over the major media of zombie deer which isn't even remotely bombastic.::: Now that the info is coming back in that the meat may also quite possibly be bad that adds a whole new dimension to it because before that the only real impact I could ever come to after doing all the math was that you could have a definite decrease in Trophy Bucks since they just wouldn't live long enough to get big. overall a young deer population will still continue on just fine they just won't get as old as they used to. Now if the Deer do in fact become inedible that obviously is going to throw big wrench in the whole system because positive rates in some of the core areas are extremely high. So once again my whole point for the original post was not to disagree with you on the overreaction aspect that these Wildlife departments have done it was simply to point out that there's strong evidence starting to come in that this disease does not need to morph to become a serious problems it may well be there now. Some of the worst areas are in the 40% range and needless to say that's going to cause huge problems if it is in fact transmissible. But one thing I do know for a fact is if the rate of which it takes out a heard stays the same as I've seen it especially down in Colorado the one thing that is abundantly clear is this is not a problem any person on this thread is likely to ever see any major real world repercussions from this in their lifetime other than the overzealous application of rediculus rules from organizations that now have become far too similar to politicians then game managers!

I can agree with this. Where and when did CWD take down a herd in Colorado by the way?? From what I've read, Colorado has seen increasing rate of CWD across the state like most other places, but still maintains stable deer and elk populations and in recent years has seen increases in herd populations all across the state. On a side note, Bummer on being kind of a circumstantial "CWD Mary". Yikes!!

 

[Kurtr]

Just wait till the wolves get released in Colorado won’t have any cwd to worry about

 

[dean nelson]

I can agree with this. Where and when did CWD take down a herd in Colorado by the way?? From what I've read, Colorado has seen increasing rate of CWD across the state like most other places, but still maintains stable deer and elk populations and in recent years has seen increases in herd populations all across the state. On a side note, Bummer on being kind of a circumstantial "CWD Mary". Yikes!!

There has not been any real or large scale herd decrease in herd population in Colorado that I'm aware of like I said all the herds I'm aware of there are increasing. Now on the other hand there was a herd up in Central Wyoming that became the poster child for a while for CWD and how it was going to wipe out all the deer. Conveniently though all the various departments that were pointing to it and showing how much it had dropped over the last few years seemed to forget about the fact that they'd also had massive nasty Winters each of those years. And wouldn't you know it the first Good year where it wasn't a bad winter the population exploded and gained back all of the losses they had head in one year and is now even higher and at its highest point it's ever been recorded at so that's sort of blew their argument all the hell. Like I said taking away the meat aspect of it the only real measurable difference I can ever find their being is the possibility of it decreasing the number of Trophy Bucks. And it should be noted that that decrease would be just that a decrease not a complete annihilation!

One question for you since my mom is from Valley City I'm curious if you graduated from Valley and if so when?

 

[KDM]

Unfortunately, I had the dubious honor of graduating from a fargoan high school.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Well especially when you consider this Research Center where this all got it's start is high fenced operation not to mention the definitive link between a Fair number of the outbreaks being directly traced back to high fenced operations. So I would say yeah best not to push to far down the road.

There were actually four government research facilities doing nutritional studies on mule deer. They had them housed with domestic sheep infected with scrapie. Is/was there a connection? No one will ever know. It was 1967.

However, old timers from those endemic areas in Wyoming and Colorado do claim to have seen emaciated/sick cervids before 1967 showing these symptoms so it may have been around before 1967.

 

[Jake G]

I predict a statewide ban on baiting will be announced in coming months

Good! Guys can learn how to hunt again. I used to bait some. Killed a couple deer over it. Now we have a ban in place and it is kind of fun going back to using scouting and woodsmanship to harvest one. The success rate for Archery is way to high. It will start limiting opportunities if it continues on this trend.

 

[KDM]

Good! Guys can learn how to hunt again. I used to bait some. Killed a couple deer over it. Now we have a ban in place and it is kind of fun going back to using scouting and woodsmanship to harvest one. The success rate for Archery is way to high. It will start limiting opportunities if it continues on this trend.

So, when fewer folks find success, fewer folks take up archery hunting, fewer folks feel the need to support the sport, fewer voters care about hunting issues, fewer folks care about rural issues (Think all land is posted stupidity here), then MORE folks (Think PETA here) come along and vote against the aforementioned and before you know it, the political anti hunting stupidity seen in states like California arrives on your doorstep. Careful what you wish for Jake G.